Australia Australia - Tumbulgum, NSW, Male 50-70, Tweed River in sleeping bag, Nov'12

[T-dawg420]

No Cookies | The Courier Mail

For such a small area it’s not the first time a body has been dumped there!

In 2016 34 year old Sabrina Bremer from Logan, Qld, was killed over a heroin debt and her body dumped and set alight on Pollards Rd, Dulguigan. Three people have been found guilty of various crimes including manslaughter and interfering with a body. They all received custodial sentences of varying length.

In the article local barman who refused to give his name was interviewed and said this “I heard my dogs going crazy about 11.30pm but I didn’t see or hear anything.

“Where she was found is off the beaten track. You would have to think it’s someone who knows the area.”

That’s right near where the body in the bag was located 4 years earlier. And it is way off the main track as you can see by the google map pics I’ve attached

 

[Bohemian]

Can I ask possibly a stupid question? If the body was so badly decomposed, how can they tell he had a ponytail?

Not a stupid question at all. The reason is because, in dry environments, hair takes a lot longer to decompose than soft tissue such as skin and organs, etc.

https://www.scienceabc.com/humans/hair-color-after-death-blonde-brunette-eumelanin-pheomelanin.html

 

[T-dawg420]

Not a stupid question at all. The reason is because, in dry environments, hair takes a lot longer to decompose than soft tissue such as skin and organs, etc.

https://www.scienceabc.com/humans/h...does-hair-decompose-and-how-long-does-it-take

This body was found next to a river right?

it says that nothing lasts forever and eventually hair will break down. What’s different is how quickly the decomposition process takes. It also says on most cases in normal soils that both bone and hair will eventually decay after a few years.

so I wonder if out in the elements, next to a river, would hasten the decay of hair?

 

[T-dawg420]

Not a stupid question at all. The reason is because, in dry environments, hair takes a lot longer to decompose than soft tissue such as skin and organs, etc.

https://www.scienceabc.com/humans/hair-color-after-death-blonde-brunette-eumelanin-pheomelanin.html

Thanks for that btw, that’s great info and I’m now learning a lot I didn’t know.

 

[Bohemian]

This body was found next to a river right?

it says that nothing lasts forever and eventually hair will break down. What’s different is how quickly the decomposition process takes. It also says on most cases in normal soils that both bone and hair will eventually decay after a few years.

so I wonder if out in the elements, next to a river, would hasten the decay of hair?

If it was a wet environment; eg, swamp or marsh, I’d say yes. If a dry environment; eg, sandy or rocky, then no.

 

[T-dawg420]

If it was a wet environment; eg, swamp or marsh, I’d say yes. If a dry environment; eg, sandy or rocky, then no.

Yeah right! That’s fascinating.

 

[Melt71]

On the sleeping bag with the liner component - I remember in the 90s when I was backpacking (I'm an Aussie) most youth hostels required you to provide a "sleeping sheet" which actually came in the form of a cotton bag. You could buy them at hostel reception if you didn't have your own. Then the hostel provided the blankets. These days they still sell more upmarket versions in camping shops.

 

[T-dawg420]

In this video the police officer says the person in the bag had dentures. Don’t dentures have individual markings to them? To assist in identifying a dead body? Kinda like your real teeth and dental records?

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[T-dawg420]

Sleeping bag key to cold case

This article has some interesting quotes.

“The fabric is very distinctive, and it’s not something you’d buy in a shop. It’s been homemade,” Insp Cullen said.

“The man was caucasian, aged between 50 and 70 years, was 163cm tall, and of thin build and had grey hair tied in a ponytail with a blue band. There were no teeth, indicating he may have worn dentures, and nixing the possibility of identifying him through dental records. The man was wearing only a pair of orange and blue underpants.

There was a small trace of alcohol in his system, which may mean he was drinking at a local pub or bought alcohol near where the body was found.”

so its saying he had no teeth and no dentures but it indicated he wore dentures!

Also, found in just orange and blue underpants and had trace amounts of alcohol in his system.

 

[ZaZara]

Sleeping bag key to cold case

This article has some interesting quotes.

“The fabric is very distinctive, and it’s not something you’d buy in a shop. It’s been homemade,” Insp Cullen said.

“The man was caucasian, aged between 50 and 70 years, was 163cm tall, and of thin build and had grey hair tied in a ponytail with a blue band. There were no teeth, indicating he may have worn dentures, and nixing the possibility of identifying him through dental records. The man was wearing only a pair of orange and blue underpants.

There was a small trace of alcohol in his system, which may mean he was drinking at a local pub or bought alcohol near where the body was found.”

so its saying he had no teeth and no dentures but it indicated he wore dentures!

Also, found in just orange and blue underpants and had trace amounts of alcohol in his system.

The article is quoted on the first post of this thread. A discussion followed.

 

[T-dawg420]

The article is quoted on the first post of this thread. A discussion followed.

So what, I can’t bring it to the fore front again?

that was also 5 years ago how about you keep the convo flowing? That might be an idea yeah?

 

[T-dawg420]

Fresh eyes bring fresh leads? Or don’t you know that? Lol

 

[T-dawg420]

The article is quoted on the first post of this thread. A discussion followed.

how come it’s never been mentioned he had trace amounts of alcohol in his system? That could be rather important right? That was in the article that was posted on the first page?

The police mention that means he could have visited the local pub.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

The article is quoted on the first post of this thread. A discussion followed.

And we are still here trying to work out what happened to him so it’s definitely worth relooking at the available data again in case anything else might make sense now.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

If it was a wet environment; eg, swamp or marsh, I’d say yes. If a dry environment; eg, sandy or rocky, then no.

Can I ask, did you ever hear from DCI Cullen?
Also, another question hopefully in your scope?
Would you think the bag, sheet and undergarments would be a lot murkier if it was actually in the water for a period? Surely the fabric would hold dirt and mud particles.
I’m wondering if the attempt was made after transporting him by car to the river, to throw him in, but he got lodged in the bank and was left there instead?

 

[HinterlandObserver]

No Cookies | The Courier Mail

For such a small area it’s not the first time a body has been dumped there!

In 2016 34 year old Sabrina Bremer from Logan, Qld, was killed over a heroin debt and her body dumped and set alight on Pollards Rd, Dulguigan. Three people have been found guilty of various crimes including manslaughter and interfering with a body. They all received custodial sentences of varying length.

In the article local barman who refused to give his name was interviewed and said this “I heard my dogs going crazy about 11.30pm but I didn’t see or hear anything.

“Where she was found is off the beaten track. You would have to think it’s someone who knows the area.”

That’s right near where the body in the bag was located 4 years earlier. And it is way off the main track as you can see by the google map pics I’ve attached

Is there road access to the location where he was found Tdawg?

 

[T-dawg420]

Is there road access to the location where he was found Tdawg?

Look I can’t tell exactly where the body was located. Firstly from information on MSM it says “10km east or murwillumbah”. Well technically Tumbulgum is north east but the 10km mark is right around the bend in the river at Tumbulgum.

I’ll put up a few screen shots of where it describes the location. Firstly it says shocked fisherman burst into the local pub about 7pm to say they’d found a body in a bag in the river.

now my best guess is the “local pub” is the Tumbulgum Tavern. It’s located on the eastern side of the river, right in front of boat access.

I also found it says the body was located near Dulguigan Rd about 7pm

Dulguigan Road in on the other side of the river to the tavern.
Coincidently, this road is also the road which Pollards Rd goes into, that is where Sabrina Bremers burnt body was found in 2016.

to answer your original question, all of Dulguigan Rd is accessible by car. There is only one area on the western side of the tweed river and the southern side of Rous River that is not accessible as it is a private road (I assume you could drive on the private road, but this area is opposite side of the river to Dulguigan Rd.) I have also edited to include a few screenshots of the private road access, as well as some high grass.

Dulguigan rd also runs along the mouth where Rous River joins the Tweed River. So it makes the area of “Dulguigan Rd on the tweed river” not that large if that makes sense?

Also with the trace alcohol in the body in the bags system, the police said he could have visited a local pub.

 

[T-dawg420]

Just for reference. Here is a screen shot of where the body in the bag was possibly located, as well as the exact location of Sabrina Bremers body location (pollards Rd is the dropped pin)

Considering that Sabrina came from Logan in Brisbane, it’s such a small area that’s kinda out of the way from the Pacific Motorway for 2 bodies to be found imo

 

[Bohemian]

Can I ask, did you ever hear from DCI Cullen?
Also, another question hopefully in your scope?
Would you think the bag, sheet and undergarments would be a lot murkier if it was actually in the water for a period? Surely the fabric would hold dirt and mud particles.
I’m wondering if the attempt was made after transporting him by car to the river, to throw him in, but he got lodged in the bank and was left there instead?

No, I didn’t hear from him.

Forensic science isn’t in my wheel house, rather a working knowledge of biology.

I’m sorry I couldn’t be of more assistance.

 

[T-dawg420]

I have a question about forensics and autopsies. I don’t know enough about this subject tbh. One thing that I find confusing is in 2016 DCI Cullen says they couldn’t get a line on when or how the body in a bag died, but his best “guesstimate” is two to three weeks. They mention how badly decomposed the body was as well.

Now in the Gaby Petito case in the USA they have released her cause of death as strangulation, and estimate she died 3 to 4 weeks previous to being found.

How can they tell the way Gaby died after 3-4 weeks yet can’t establish anything in the body in a bag case here?

Is it a case of it being a decade ago, and forensics have advanced enough in that time? Is it a case of yes our police know a lot more then they’re letting on? Are there different procedures in different countries? Is it a case of Different climates make decomposition happen faster etc?

it just confuses me that the body in the bag was so badly decomposed they can’t tell a thing, and we’re told at best guess he was dead 2-3 weeks, yet They can tell Gaby was strangled, and even that she wasn’t pregnant after 3-4 weeks of decomposition.