Australia- Two sisters in their 20s found dead inside Sydney unit had been there lengthy time, Suspicious deaths, June 2022

  • #441
rbbm.
''Their remains were in such an advanced state of decay that it is proving difficult to establish how they died.

A man who was friends with Asra, 24, said he was never invited inside the sisters’ home and said he did not know where she worked.

“She told me nothing about her life like that … I did not go to her home, I meet her out, you know, not in the house,” he told the Daily Telegraph.''

''An employee from the sisters’ building management company earlier revealed the women approached them with safety concerns months before their deaths.

“They made a report that they saw a man ’acting weird’ outside the building - standing between two cars and acting strange,” the employee told Daily Mail Australia, noting they could see no malicious intentions.''

''Anyone with information is urged to contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000.''

Something to do with their car ? It had been keyed. Someone loitering. A stalker? Aggrieved person? Muderer? What about that Russian poison that just a tiny amount on a door handle kills? Car door handles?
 
  • #442
"Untoward", "bad vibe"

What can all these mean??

Bearing in mind they’re sisters alone with no visitors I can’t imagine much?

Extreme religious or cult~like or witchcraft or occult vibes?

Something odd and insanitary? Hoarding? Untidy? strange smell?

Or maybe HE DID SOMETHING messed up and made this cover up story?
 
  • #443
I agree, I don't see it, objectively, as harrassment.

However, subjectively, that is probably how it felt. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it was no big deal to them, they were just waiting to implement their relocation plan, but were prevented because their take out food was poisoned.
I agree. given that there is information, citing multiple and distinct sources, that the sisters' believed they were being watched, harassed and surveilled, then they may well have felt and believed that their tormentors had induced their landlord (and possibly the police and others) to harass them.
What I find odd is that if they believed all this, why didn't they go back to the refugee agency who had been helping them, or to the first landlords who seem to have been friendly with the sisters?
 
  • #444
This case has become a question of who/which media outlet to believe.

The latest bombshell(s) from ABC, our national broadcaster Crucifixes uncovered in apartment where Saudi sisters found mysteriously dead

"Two young women do not commit suicide together unless they're doing it together. They don't get naked, they don't go to separate rooms, they don't die separately," he said.
Excellent observation. With the cricifix report, the full wording shows the caution of the ABC:
Two crucifixes were found in a Canterbury apartment where Saudi sisters Asra Abdullah Alsehli, 24, and Amaal Abdullah Alsehli, 23, were found dead in June, a worker with access to the apartment has told the ABC.
The discovery was made after the women's bodies were removed.
The worker told the ABC that the crucifixes were found on the floor of one of the bedrooms.
The ABC could not independently corroborate this claim.
It's unclear whether the discovery of the crosses was a sign that the sisters had renounced Islam and converted to Christianity or whether they were using them as a disguise.
We simply do not know if the crucifixes were associated with the Asra & Amaal Alsehli: Did they own them? Did they buy them? or if the crucifixes were placed in the apartment after the police had finished. The crucifixes could have been placed there after the clean up, much as is seen at those roadside shrines, to victims of road accidents. Or they may be an invention. as the ABC says, "The ABC could not independently corroborate this claim."
Caution, as ever is required.
 
  • #445
The ABC report, "Sources reveal contents of Canterbury apartment", provides some additional information but also speculation:
Information: In June, the bodies of the women were found naked and in separate beds.
Speculation: This prompted the apartment's building manager Michael Baird to dismiss suicide as a potential cause of death.
"Two young women do not commit suicide together unless they're doing it together. They don't get naked, they don't go to separate rooms, they don't die separately," he said.
I do not know how this man knows this.
I have read about coordinated suicides in which all those involved did so that the same time but took themselves to different rooms; and i have read about other coordinated suicides, in which all involved were in the same room, and same bed. Lesson: the apartment building managers speculation is just that, and can't be used by itself to dismiss the suicide theory.
What is interesting is that the Asra Alsehli and Amaal Alsehli were found naked in bed. Were their night clothes near by? Were their bodies covered by bed clothes and, were their bodies arranged - i.e. posed?
The fact the flooring had to be removed and replaced is also interesting. Smell of decomposition, even odours, can permeate fabric and carpets, as anyone who had had a deceased possum, quietly decomposing on their cabin's living room will confirm. [I have. Not good.]
 
  • #446
Regarding poison whether in food, carbon monoxide etc.. would you undress if you were dying by poison?
 
  • #447
The crucifixes could have been left by a perp. As a message? Found naked leads me to believe SA. But could be a number of reasons really. An odd mystery we have here
 
  • #448
Something to do with their car ? It had been keyed. Someone loitering. A stalker? Aggrieved person? Muderer? What about that Russian poison that just a tiny amount on a door handle kills? Car door handles?
Polonium? Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal - Wikipedia

I agree re: symptoms of poisoning. Everything I've read about poison mentions vomiting, bleeding, heart issues and other things that sound miserable. I doubt anyone would be able to stay still in bed and succumb, even if they were suicidal. Most people are not found in their bedroom neat and tidy iykwim.

Until I read that they weren't wearing anything, I was thinking toxins or poison from a faulty AC, appliance, exposure to something. Both of them being found naked changes things.

What happened with the tampered food incident? Is there a chance that one sister tampered with the others food? If one sister was gaslighting the other, it would certainly lead to paranoia.

Perhaps they took the flooring for forensic testing? Often when a tenant moves out, it's standard for the landlord to replace flooring (mostly carpeting which is uncommon these days). It could also be from the state of the apartment after so much time had passed.

Bearded Iranian, ex boyfriend, guy who met the sister on the street, guy with the AVO against him, weird guy outside between the cars, are these all separate individuals?
 
  • #449
Some final observations. For today:
1. The apartment building and surrounding areas have security cameras and there has been reports that police have, unsurprisingly, seized footage. That may yield information - either person's of interest or the lack (in which case, no external involvement in the deaths).
2. One might also infer police will also be scouring cell and internet metadata to determine activity (and narrow the date of death) and also whether any other numbers were geo-located nearby (suggesting interactions with others) around the estimated date of death.
3. Police would check the heater, if there was one, as carbon-monoxide poisoning has been linked to deaths in Melbourne. Deaths of people from un-flued heaters has led to such heaters being phased out.
4. Toxicology tests, so far, have proved inconclusive and police seem to be keeping an open mind and exploring all possibilities.
5. The sisters' bodies were badly decomposed. As a result, much evidence, including as to cause of death, will have been lost. There may be little evidence left of their last meal and how long before they died. Some poisons disappear following death, while others remain, but are easily detectable (heavy metals, arsenic, for instance). One poison that can disappear is insulin. In 2016, a Sydney doctor was found guilty of murdering his wife by injecting her with a fatal dose of insulin. The police and scientific investigation is remarkable. Another suspicious death in Australia is very famous: the so called Bogle-Chandler mystery. This is mysterious deaths of Gilbert Bogle and Margaret Chandler on the banks of the Lane Cove River in Sydney, Australia on 1 January 1963. The case became famous because of the circumstances in which the bodies were found and because the cause of death could not be established. In 2006 a filmmaker discovered evidence to suggest the cause of death was hydrogen sulphide gas.
6. Apart from drug like insulin and poisoning by carbon monoxide or hydrogen sulphide gas (a method of suicide in Japan, apparently), police would be investigating any possibility. As noted in an earlier post, the Alsehli sisters were found naked. I remember that some suicides bath and dress themselves, in a type of ritual, before attempting, others do not and it can be very "spur of the moment".
7. As for naked suicide. The psychiatric and forensic literature is mostly silent on the topic of naked suicide. See Naked Suicide. [IMHO: Worth reading.] It does happen, but is associated, anecdotally, with jumping of a bridge or defenestration or such like.
Marilyn Monroe was found lying nude, face down, with a sheet pulled over her dead body. After much publicity and controversy, the coroner ruled that she had died of acute barbiturate poisoning by overdose. Whether her death was murder, suicide or misadventure is still a matter of debate. The naked body of Robert Maxwell, billionaire British tycoon, was found floating some distance from his yacht. Whether his death was murder, suicide or misadventure is still a matter of debate but the Coroner ruled it was an accident.
People may disrobe if they are suffering hypothermia. This is known as “paradoxical undressing.” In such cases, there is no suicidal intent. This may have occurred in the Dyatlov Pass incident, in which some of the victims were found naked. In the case of the Alsehli sisters, an hypothesis might be that they ingested or injected some substance that led to them disrobing and ultimately, dying. That toxicology has so far found nothing of note, suggests this theory is not likely to be true. However further tests could change this.
My conjecture, at this stage, is that the Alsehli sisters' deaths are unlikely to be honour killings. Such killings tend to be very violent and brutal and although some are concealed, often they are not. The methods are awful: stabbing, cutting, burning, strangulation and less commonly, gunshot. They tend ot be committed by relations, so a line of enquiry is whether any of the Alsehli sisters' relations were in the country at the time of their deaths? Police have said the sisters' immediate family are not suspects.
At present, it seems their deaths are more likely to be suicide or death by misadventure of some type.
There is intense public interest in this case and I hope the Coroner will make public findings. Unfortunately, in Australia, much of the supporting information relied upon by coroners, such as statements from police, acquaintances or scientific reports, are not released publicly and the public has to rely on the famous and ever present "informed sources, with knowledge of the matter who are not authorised to speak".
 
  • #450
Regarding poison whether in food, carbon monoxide etc.. would you undress if you were dying by poison?
Possibly. Paradoxical undressing is a thing, in cases of hyperthermia. But some poisons and psycho active drugs can cause a person to disrobe.
 
  • #451
The crucifixes could have been left by a perp. As a message? Found naked leads me to believe SA. But could be a number of reasons really. An odd mystery we have here
Unlikely. Police tend to remove everything; and certainly things people touch, would have been dusted for finger prints.
 
  • #452
It looks as though the girls' surname has been misspelled in some media articles. It was previously reported as Abdullah Al-Sahli or Abdullah Alsahli, then changed to Alsehli. There's also been a few different spellings of their firstnames - Esraa, Isra, Asra, and Amal and Amaal.
 
Last edited:
  • #453
I wonder if the sisters wrote a letter, or an email, or sent a text, to a family member?

By what's been reported so far, the family appear to accept the young women committed suicide, why else oppose an investigation by police and the publishing of their photos?
 
  • #454
I wonder if the sisters wrote a letter, or an email, or sent a text, to a family member?

By what's been reported so far, the family appear to accept the young women committed suicide, why else oppose an investigation by police and the publishing of their photos?
Privacy because the girls were living a lifestyle that went against their religion? I don’t know
 
  • #455
[
Privacy because the girls were living a lifestyle that went against their religion? I don’t know
I think this case is full of people doing 'irrational' things. But that's because it touches deeply felt, utterly irrational aspects of life: family expectations, religious beliefs, culture clash, feelings about home and belonging, a sense of safety, young people's dreams for their future...

ETA, not to mention: sisters. Don't get me started on that one.

JMO
 
Last edited:
  • #456
Idk why it just now occurred to me it could be a murder suicide...

If it was a suicide - then why didn't they die holding hands?

Weren't they inseparable?

Together both in life and death?
 
  • #457
I wonder if the sisters wrote a letter, or an email, or sent a text, to a family member?

By what's been reported so far, the family appear to accept the young women committed suicide, why else oppose an investigation by police and the publishing of their photos?

Family Honour.

There is a similar 4 corners story about a young woman escaping Saudi in the same month these sisters left.

 
  • #458
''Another building worker told the ABC that he knew that the women had noticed a man watching their apartment from across the street.

The worker, who is familiar with the building's residents, said he'd also seen an unknown Middle Eastern man inside the building on two occasions in the months leading up to the sisters' death.

The building worker said when he asked the man which apartment he was from, the man gave the women's address.''
okay. THIS is creepy as hell.
Regarding poison whether in food, carbon monoxide etc.. would you undress if you were dying by poison?
maybe they both happen to sleep naked and something happened during that time.
 
  • #459
  • #460
If the young women had come from a different cultural background, I might be thinking along the lines of them believing they had been cursed, or death-wished, eg "the evil eye", bone-pointing, or similar. For non-Australians, bone-pointing is an Aboriginal practice (possibly extinct nowadays) where a medicine man or shaman literally points a "magic" bone at someone, usually as a punishment. The recipient often sickens and dies, apparently.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
126
Guests online
4,424
Total visitors
4,550

Forum statistics

Threads
633,265
Messages
18,638,772
Members
243,460
Latest member
joanjettofarc
Back
Top