Australia- Two sisters in their 20s found dead inside Sydney unit had been there lengthy time, Suspicious deaths, June 2022

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

It looks like such a high traffic area though. Wouldn't someone be spotted easily? If this is what happened, I'm guessing the perpetrator would have to be in good shape. Possibly also into "parkour" bc IDK how anyone could launch themselves up there?

Dress like a work person or window cleaner and put a ladder up? Nobody going to take any notice whatsoever most likely. Or do or say something that would mean the women allowed access voluntarily. Or maybe even be a key holder ~ previous tenant? letting agent? trusted friend or neighbour? pick the lock? Whomsoever did this could have gained access whilst the women were out and been inside when they returned.

Also who did they interact with at work? What messages and calls were logged on their phones? We really know nothing.

IMO based on the minimal info we have is the person most likely to have a grievance is the ‘boyfriend‘ who had the order served then retracted. Why withdraw it? Out of fear due to threats?

 

[Arboreal]

It looks like such a high traffic area though. Wouldn't someone be spotted easily? If this is what happened, I'm guessing the perpetrator would have to be in good shape. Possibly also into "parkour" bc IDK how anyone could launch themselves up there?

I hope this link works. I went to google streetview to see what the general area is like. I hope this link will work.
If not, typing in 200 Canterbury road should bring up a google street view.
There is a BP Service Station directly across the road. It is likely to have cameras.
Down the road in one direction is a camera.
There are likely to be other cameras. It depends on how long the vision from the camera is retained. Additionally, cell phone metadata is held for 2 years and that can be used to geo-locate phones even if the phone ha the geo-location turned off. It works by analysing the towers the phone is connecting to. It is possible to work out what phones were in the locality. Of course if a perpetrator did not have a phone in their possession or they were using a RF masking bag, then that won't work. I saw reports that the building itself had cameras. It looks like a secure building which would mean a person may require a fob to gain entry or be "buzzed up". Again, this can be defeated if a person lurks and tailgate a person entering or leaving. Or they enter through the car park.
The Alsehli sisters reported a suspicious male lurking across the road. In google view, you can see there is a bus stop there.

 

[bfew]

There is a BP Service Station directly across the road. It is likely to have cameras.

It's open 24/7

BP 2GO CANTERBURY

 

[Via Marple]

IMO it wasn't a suicide. I agree with others that they would have been together if it was suicide and not in separate rooms.

Their unit was on the first floor. It wouldn't be too difficult to gain access to the balcony and access the unit that way.

Apartment Listing

View attachment 357850

Just an observation about fire risk..
1. Those red panels, if flammable, are above their apartment. If a big fire breaks out, as I understand it would burn up the building, the first floor would be safe.

2. They could probably survive jumping over the balcony to the ground below if necessary.

BTW, the rental agent is opening for inspection tomorrow morning, if anyone (in Sydney) is interested.

 

[Arboreal]

Dress like a work person or window cleaner and put a ladder up? Nobody going to take any notice whatsoever most likely.

I agree with you on this. I recall seeing a press report that said "stair dancers" - people who go into buildings and pilfer what they can - often disguise themselves with a fluro vest with "Maintenance" or "Supervisor" or some such emblazoned on it and carry a clipboard. People in most Western countries are inherently respectful of such things and do not challenge them.

 

[bfew]

Just an observation about fire risk..
1. Those red panels, if flammable, are above their apartment. If a big fire breaks out, as I understand it would burn up the building, the first floor would be safe.

From the perspective of the whole building, a fire in their 1st floor unit might be the worst place for one to start for occupants above, for if the external red cladding above is flammable enough, and it took hold and spread up to, or ignited the external cladding enough and spread upwards and sideways before it could be put out.

Maybe smoke from a dead of night fire above, could be enough to kill first floor occupants, if it got into the first floor units via the ventilation systems before emergency services could evacuate all occupants.

 

[bfew]

the rental agent is opening for inspection tomorrow morning, if anyone (in Sydney) is interested.

Pass.

 

[Dotta]

People usually mind their own business and carry on without looking at somebody's balcony while hurrying up.

When I walk I never look at buildings/balconies.

I rather look at the pavement so as not to fall into some hole or trip on something.

MOO

 

[whiterhino]

With all respect, realistically, I really don't see anyone going to all the trouble of wearing a fake uniform, pretending to clean the windows or do maintenance in order to gain access to these two. Not unless they were involved in something shady and someone was there to take care of something.

For anyone who has had to flee a dangerous home life, required a restraining order, had unwanted attention, feared for their safety, anything can seem like a threat. Even someone innocently waiting at the bus stop or walking their dog can seem suspicious. The only way to prove/disprove is to document things, take pictures etc.

The only thing worse than these two sisters sharing a delusion would be if one turned on the other. What if one was going off the deep end and the other was trying to keep it together? Between the two of them, sharing a place that was approx. $2000 a month, if they'd both been working shouldn't have been much trouble to keep up. So what happened?

 

[Shamrock1]

My understanding is that fire alarms do not detect carbon monoxide. And I had not noticed that. I'm a little surprised as fire alarms are mandatory in all new buildings in NSW.
We did canvass the carbon monoxide theory a while back. Unflued gas heaters can produce it; as can burning charcoal / coal indoors in little heaters. This is one way people produce CO2 in Japan. However, the CO2 theory has not been supported by comments in the press about the necessary apparatus being present and the apparent absence of a gas heater in the unit.

When a fire alarm is required, it’s usually an ionization alarm. Ionization alarms detect flames and smoke from fast flaming fires. Photoelectric alarms detect smoke from slow smoldering fires.

There are “combo” ionization/CO alarms, typically marketed as “smoke and CO” despite the fact that (1) ionization will be much slower to detect smoke than photoelectric and (2) the placement to detect flames is higher than the placement to detect CO. Think about a kitchen: the flames will probably start at stovetop-level and go up, so a ceiling placement of an ionization alarm is recommended - but most CO detectors need to be placed lower.

The tl;dr is that the ideal residence will have all three alarms that are properly installed per manufacturer instructions.

 

[Arboreal]

When a fire alarm is required, it’s usually an ionization alarm. Ionization alarms detect flames and smoke from fast flaming fires. Photoelectric alarms detect smoke from slow smoldering fires.

There are “combo” ionization/CO alarms, typically marketed as “smoke and CO” despite the fact that (1) ionization will be much slower to detect smoke than photoelectric and (2) the placement to detect flames is higher than the placement to detect CO. Think about a kitchen: the flames will probably start at stovetop-level and go up, so a ceiling placement of an ionization alarm is recommended - but most CO detectors need to be placed lower.

The tl;dr is that the ideal residence will have all three alarms that are properly installed per manufacturer instructions.

Hello Shamrock1
Thank you for such a clear explanation. It is very helpful and much appreciated.

 

[Charlot123]

2022

[UNCOVERING!] How to Tell if a Drone is Watching You at Night?

5 ways of how to tell if a drone is watching you at night. Read the article and make sure your privacy isn't compromised by spying drones.

flythatdrone.com

''The threat to privacy is increasing with the decreasing prices of drones. They can carry a high-quality camera that can easily violate your privacy, especially at night without you even knowing about it. A drone with a good quality digital camera can zoom in on your lawn or window from far away and take snapshots. It doesn’t even have to get near your private property.
This makes drones extremely dangerous for people who value their privacy or want to protect their commercial interests from things like corporate espionage.''

''Most commercial drones cannot see inside your house with their normal cameras. However, there is a special class of drones called thermal drones that can see through walls by using their night vision cameras. But even they can only see a shadow of different heat signatures, not a clear picture.''

What does a drone look like at night?​

If a drone is hovering high over your house or property at night, it will look like a blinking star but with rapid movements in different directions. If it is flying low, you can easily spot it by its throbbing white anti-collision light or by the colorful LED lights on the landing gears of most drones.''

2021

Think a Drone Is Spying on You? Here's What to Do

Many people worry that drones will invade their privacy, though experts say the fear is greater than the actual threat.

science.howstuffworks.com

2018

''If a drone were spying on your in your home or backyard, would you even know? Not necessarily. TODAY national investigative correspondent Jeff Rossen stages a revealing demonstration to show how easily you could become a victim of a “peeping drone” – and explains what you can do about it''.

Several things coming to mind:

1) remember, when the sisters complained of a strange man standing in the neighborhood, and he was caught on tape, but it was explained by the populated area? After I saw your movie about the drone, I paid attention to the drone operator from the TV station. He looked strange but was doing nothing wrong. Something similar in their case? It was v
2) anyone who is scared, maybe psychotic, but not in the drone world, noticing the drone out of your window, at night, can get horribly scared or turn psychotic, tbh. It could have been a voyeur, but in the girls’ mind, it could be a ghost, or something worse.
3) The difference between Sydney and Riyadh is 7 hours. It would work perfectly where I live, not quite sure about Sydney, but if the girls were earning money by own TikTok shows, of IG, or something else - it won’t take time to gather a huge group of followers in SA, as I understood yesterday, as being pretty and open your face is enough to gather huge following. But their livestreams would have to be in the evening. Just an idea.

People usually mind their own business and carry on without looking at somebody's balcony while hurrying up.

When I walk I never look at buildings/balconies.

I rather look at the pavement so as not to fall into some hole or trip on something.

MOO

and the main thing, they were found so late that all evidence was successfully erased.

 

[websleuth1111]

I honestly still feel like no tangible evidence has been produced to suggest foul play or murder.

There has been a lot of speculation in here, plenty of "I would have committed suicide this way" or "I wouldn't do it like that" but not one piece of concrete evidence that says to me this is anything other than tragic misadventure or suicide.

I would want to see evidence of them buying chemicals (transactions/receipts/cctv) or researching methods on their phones to back up the suicide theory. So far, I feel the opposite that there is no evidence of suicide other than the fact they are both dead. Girls don't get to leave SA and live independently without punishment if they are caught. SA govt don't like the idea of women getting out, and the SA govt has a reputation for murdering individuals who wrong them or embarrass them.

Saudi Kingdom Tries To Prevent More Women From Fleeing

 

[bfew]

People usually mind their own business and carry on without looking at somebody's balcony while hurrying up.

When I walk I never look at buildings/balconies.

I rather look at the pavement so as not to fall into some hole or trip on something.

On my way back from close to Sydney CBD this evening, in the darkness, I drove (car) along Canterbury Road, past the deceased sisters Canterbury Building on the same side of the road as it (from East to West). Friday rush hour traffic was heavy.

As I passed the street corner that there unit was over, their apartment block is so close to the road, that the concrete slab? overhang above the ground floor Stax On Burgers completely obscures the appartments above.

I recall there being some controversy for at least one of the newer appartments buildings on Canterbury Road around there being built much closer to the road than is normally approved by Council. It might have been the ones we are discussing here.

This block of appartments when first built were marketed as

Habitat Apartments, Canterbury - Toplace Group

Habitat apartments are located in the heart of Canterbury. Close to it all, residents are able to enjoy the beauty and quiet of Canterbury without compromising on inner city living. Habitat apartments will be surrounded by a fresh and vibrant social culture, with a variety of top quality...

www.toplace.com.au

Here's the Google Street View view of the building from the BP side of the building showing the overhang.

 

[websleuth1111]

Hello Shamrock1
Thank you for such a clear explanation. It is very helpful and much appreciated.

The CO theory would be a freak/rare event in a newer building like this. All of the cases that I am aware of have been older homes with old heaters- not modern ducted heating which these apartments would have

 

[Charlot123]

Hi Charlot123
Your observations are really apt. Thank you. I'd been wondering what it must have been like for these two girls when they came to Australia in 2017. I remember what it was like for me when I left home at 17, after living in a small isolated rural community and how anxious and lonely I was. And I am sure it must have been many, many times worse for them.
We have a tendency to look at the objective facts - what was found, the state of the unit and so on - and downplay the human dimension: what would they have been feeling?, what was their world view? and so on. You caught that. Tak!

Hi @Arboreal

Thank you. I am trying to focus on how they lived.
I remember that for me moving to the US was difficult, but emigrants from my part of the world had one benefit. The rules in our home countries were so idiotic, that we lived by bending them all. So, as I understand now, against Americans, we were flexible, sarcastic and never believed any mass media. Plus, there was a huge community that was very supportive.

Now imagine coming from the part of the world where you might be killed for opening your face, for walking unattended by a male guardian, where there is an app for him to allow or forbid you to do something. There was a reason I mentioned that TikTok, @jezeel.56 hadil Just to see how easy to be “honor killed” for doing regular teenage things.

Be it the girls came with agreement of their family, or escaped, and were in hiding in some intermediate country, in either way, it was a very different world.

So for our sisters, to sit at home would have been safe, everything else, taking off the headscarves, being in a mixed group of coeds, inviting men to their home, everything that for us is normal, would be a huge stress. Maybe this is what they were scared of?

 

[bfew]

This block of appartments when first built were marketed as

Habitat Apartments, Canterbury - Toplace Group

Habitat apartments are located in the heart of Canterbury. Close to it all, residents are able to enjoy the beauty and quiet of Canterbury without compromising on inner city living. Habitat apartments will be surrounded by a fresh and vibrant social culture, with a variety of top quality...

www.toplace.com.au

Here's some of the building specs that both us and any of the 2 sisters possibly murderers might have also had access to in any planned murder (along with the Council Development Application & Approval docs)

CANTERBURY RD & CANTON ST MIXED DEVELOPMENT - HABITAT APARTMENTS Project in Canterbury, NSW - Cordell Connect

CANTERBURY RD & CANTON ST MIXED DEVELOPMENT - HABITAT APARTMENTS project. Units, apartments, flats, townhouses, villas, Residential type at 308-320 Canterbury Rd & 6-8 Canton St, Canterbury, NSW 2193

www.cordellconnect.com.au

Project : CANTERBURY RD & CANTON ST MIXED DEVELOPMENT - HABITAT APARTMENTS​ Residential Units, apartments, flats, townhouses, villas Estimated Project Value $ 45,131,000​

Address 308-320 Canterbury Rd & 6-8 Canton St Suburb Canterbury State NSW Council Canterbury Postcode 2193 Project Type Apartments (220)/Commercial - 8 Storey Development Type New Status Firm Stage Contract Let Ownership Private Notes Siteworks In Progress Construction Expected To Commence February 2016 Units 220 Floors 8 Commence Date 2/2/2016 Completion Date 6/11/2017

Details Construction of an 8 storey mixed use development comprising a total of 220 apartments. Concrete panel walls, concrete balustrades with paint finish & glass balustrades. Basement carparking for 345 vehicles, basement carpark includes parking for a loading zone, a car wash bay, plant services, residential storage areas & bicycle storage. Landscaping DA 405/2013 JRPP Ref 2013SYE088. Lots 20, 21 & 22 DP594240, Lots 19 & 23 DP80980, Lot 26 DP511847, Cnr Lot 20 DP594240, Lot 1 DP85519, Lot 18 DP78490. Additional amended DA-604/2014 for an additional 3/4 levels resulting in a total of 220 residential apartments.

 

[websleuth1111]

On my way back from close to Sydney CBD this evening, in the darkness, I drove (car) along Canterbury Road, past the deceased sisters Canterbury Building on the same side of the road as it (from East to West). Friday rush hour traffic was heavy.

As I passed the street corner that there unit was over, their apartment block is so close to the road, that the concrete slab? overhang above the ground floor Stax On Burgers completely obscures the appartments above.

I recall there being some controversy for at least one of the newer appartments buildings on Canterbury Road around there being built much closer to the road than is normally approved by Council. It might have been the ones we are discussing here.

This block of appartments when first built were marketed as

Habitat Apartments, Canterbury - Toplace Group

Habitat apartments are located in the heart of Canterbury. Close to it all, residents are able to enjoy the beauty and quiet of Canterbury without compromising on inner city living. Habitat apartments will be surrounded by a fresh and vibrant social culture, with a variety of top quality...

www.toplace.com.au

Here's the Google Street View view of the building from the BP side of the building showing the overhang.

View attachment 357910

 

[websleuth1111]

Geez google maps is creepy! Is this their car-same model and same wheels? Is this where they were parking illegally and the supposed reason why the car was keyed?
The last google maps photo of the Canterbury rd side of the building was taken in May 2022. This link showing the car parked at the servo is dated Dec 2018

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I agree with you on this. I recall seeing a press report that said "stair dancers" - people who go into buildings and pilfer what they can - often disguise themselves with a fluro vest with "Maintenance" or "Supervisor" or some such emblazoned on it and carry a clipboard. People in most Western countries are inherently respectful of such things and do not challenge them.

Stair dancers - I've never heard of that term before!