Australia- Two sisters in their 20s found dead inside Sydney unit had been there lengthy time, Suspicious deaths, June 2022

[Charlot123]

Hello Charlot123
Thank you for sharing your experiences with the forum. I really appreciate it and I'm sure others reading do too. We who live in countries like the US and Australia and Europe, forget how unrestricted we are in many ways but also how manipulated we can become, from the media, because those in more repressive places have to develop healthy skepticism.
Thanks again.

I have noticed that you have a warm personality and are trying to create a pleasant atmosphere on the forum. In a very thoughtful way, too. It is an incredibly important quality, promoting cohesiveness and good group work. (In short, nice people are always welcomed )))

 

[bfew]

It would be unusual not to replace the air freshener, unless they bought several on a X-mas sale?

Air fresheners sometimes come standard as a freebie with every car service or car cleaning/detailing.

 

[bfew]

I speculate that the 2 deceased Saudi Sisters might have rented that particular first floor Canterbury corner apartment, because of the perceived security from all the people around from being on that busy main road street corner, with a 24/7 BP Service Station across the road, and eateries underneath on the ground floor which had large see-thru windows on both corner sides.

 

[Charlot123]

Air fresheners sometimes come standard as a freebie with every car service or car cleaning/detailing.

Interesting. But then, either it is still the same, or, they were doing service/cleaning at the same place? Interesting to find it, the place, I mean.

 

[Arboreal]

I have noticed that you have a warm personality and are trying to create a pleasant atmosphere on the forum. In a very thoughtful way, too. It is an incredibly important quality, promoting cohesiveness and good group work. (In short, nice people are always welcomed )))

Thank you for your kind words. And I too have noticed your posts are thoughtful and giving, contributing positively to the conversation. I completely agree. I believe generosity of thought, which we see here, is so conducive to making such a safe space. Civility is welcoming.

 

[Charlot123]

Wow, so it was a rumour they were naked?

I don’t know this, but in the first article that posted the apartment plan, two places were marked as “robes”. One was next to the bed, another, in the bathroom. I don’t know if these are closets/wardrobes, or, the places where the robes were found.

ETA: here in this article there is a plan. There is a “Lin”. Linen. And then two robes, in each room, what are they?

‘Timid and upset’: Mystery deepens over Saudi sisters’ deaths

Authorities still do not know how the sisters died after the results from toxicology tests and autopsies were inconclusive.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Arboreal]

I don’t know this, but in the first article that posted the apartment plan, two places were marked as “robes”. One was next to the bed, another, in the bathroom. I don’t know if these are closets/wardrobes, or, the places where the robes were found.

In Australia, "Robes" usually means "Wardrobes", as you suggest and it does in this case:

 

[Arboreal]

Wow, so it was a rumour they were naked?

From reading various news reports, it seems that there is no agreement over whether the Alsehli sisters were naked or clothed. I suspect it will take a statement by police or, as is more likely, evidence given to the Coroner, if indeed an inquest is held.

 

[Arboreal]

In Australia, "Robes" usually means "Wardrobes", as you suggest and it does in this case:
View attachment 357936

I've just been looking more closely at that apartment. It seems so small; and is on a major, busy, noisy road. I am sure I would not have coped.

 

[Charlot123]

From reading various news reports, it seems that there is no agreement over whether the Alsehli sisters were naked or clothed. I suspect it will take a statement by police or, as is more likely, evidence given to the Coroner, if indeed an inquest is held.

I think, 90% of what we have read would not be confirmed, as it is turning into a high-power case (these wide open, full of despair eyes of Amaal are pushing the narrative, JMO). The newspapers seemingly are sniffing for the freshest scoop, even good ones are frequently posting something unproven. So, depends on their habits. Slightly unlikely given the weather, but what do we know?

 

[Dotta]

I think, 90% of what we have read would not be confirmed, as it is turning into a high-power case (these wide open, full of despair eyes of Amaal are pushing the narrative, JMO). The newspapers seemingly are sniffing for the freshest scoop, even good ones are frequently posting something unproven. So, depends on their habits. Slightly unlikely given the weather, but what do we know?

Re: Amaal's expression

I wouldn't read too much into passport photos.

Most look like mugshots - you have to look straight ahead, no smile, blank expression.

I had to visit a few photographers in order to choose 1 photo I deemed presentable.

 

[Via Marple]

On my way back from close to Sydney CBD this evening, in the darkness, I drove (car) along Canterbury Road, past the deceased sisters Canterbury Building on the same side of the road as it (from East to West). Friday rush hour traffic was heavy.

As I passed the street corner that there unit was over, their apartment block is so close to the road, that the concrete slab? overhang above the ground floor Stax On Burgers completely obscures the appartments above.

I recall there being some controversy for at least one of the newer appartments buildings on Canterbury Road around there being built much closer to the road than is normally approved by Council. It might have been the ones we are discussing here.

This block of appartments when first built were marketed as

Habitat Apartments, Canterbury - Toplace Group

Habitat apartments are located in the heart of Canterbury. Close to it all, residents are able to enjoy the beauty and quiet of Canterbury without compromising on inner city living. Habitat apartments will be surrounded by a fresh and vibrant social culture, with a variety of top quality...

www.toplace.com.au

Here's the Google Street View view of the building from the BP side of the building showing the overhang.

Wow Toplace. Notorious property developer, often in the news.
Developer hit with fresh orders to fix ‘serious defects’ in 10-storey tower

These Sydney apartment towers were built in 2018 — now the owners are suing for alleged ‘defects’

'Structural issues' found in 'luxurious' Sydney apartment tower

 

[vls12345]

In Australia, "Robes" usually means "Wardrobes", as you suggest and it does in this case:
View attachment 357936

If the sisters were as frightened and/or as paranoid as some think, why would they choose to kill themselves in separate rooms, each with direct outdoor access (through what looks like glass doors in photos)? If they were scared or frightened, might they not instead choose the separate bathroom area where it's not easily seen/discoverable? If they were afraid of someone getting in, I would think this apartment would have been a poor choice as it has the door to the hallway, plus three glass doors that front a low/overhanging roof area. They might not have thought about that when first renting, but if they became increasingly afraid, I would think they would avoid the areas with the largest doors or windows. At a minimum, I would think they might have chosen to stay together in the bedroom with the smaller outside door (so it could more easily be blocked or barricaded). It's an apartment layout/style that lends itself to exposure, imo.

Just random musings. MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

Wow Toplace. Notorious property developer, often in the news.
Developer hit with fresh orders to fix ‘serious defects’ in 10-storey tower

These Sydney apartment towers were built in 2018 — now the owners are suing for alleged ‘defects’

'Structural issues' found in 'luxurious' Sydney apartment tower

Toplace’s owner Jean Nassif recently had AVO against him removed

Flamboyant property developer allegedly assaulted wife

Jean Nassif, 54, was arrested on Tuesday night at his multi-million dollar mansion in Chiswick, in Sydney's inner west, and charged with common assault.

www.dailymail.co.uk

ETA: “
Poor building practices undermine confidence in the multi-billion-dollar construction industry, the strata management industry and in the planning system.

They also contribute to inequality. This is because apartment residents are more likely to be younger, renting, on lower incomes, and from non-English speaking backgrounds.”

Could it still be something like CO exposure?

 

[Charlot123]

Interesting…

What lies beneath the cracks in Opal Tower — and buildings across Australia

Building defects in apartment blocks like those found in Sydney's Opal Tower are far from unusual. We need to identify the systemic flaws contributing to them.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

It would be! If they died with the heater on, it would be very hot. If we forget to turn our ducted heater off before going to sleep we have to get up during the night to turn it off as it gets so hot. And it was cold in May.
Carbon monoxide testing in rental properties became mandatory in NSW in March 2020. It has to be done every two years.

The heating must have passed the test in 2020- it would be very unlikely to fail less than 2 years later. It was also very likely it was tested before they died anyway as it would have been overdue for a test by May. The PM would have these records, in my property this is all outsourced to a third party company that the PM uses. It's standard practise and the PM would not have been able to not have the testing done. I think this is the most unlikely cause. I have never heard of poisoning occurring in newer homes or apartments in Austalia. It is usually heaters like this in old houses that are faulty and leak carbon monoxideView attachment 357915.

I understand but faulty modern boiler flues are very common and can become blocked for all manner of reasons including deliberate blocking ~ as they vent to outside someone can tamper or debris or dead animals or insects can block. I’ve had a few instances where boilers have failed over the course of my life including one where it was determined the flu pipe thru brickwork was wrongly angled and a new hole bored - but I’d lived there for three years already

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

But then, this could give us a guesstimate of when they died. As long as they were alive, they’d be using something. Water, gas, electricity. If it suddenly stopped, this would be close to the date of death. If the utilities company get the integrated use over the month and can’t spread it over the days, it won’t be that helpful, unless they died at the very beginning of the new cycle.

yes and if they have smart meters, as my 10yr old building was fitted with (UK) they take a reading every few seconds

 

[bfew]

If the utilities company get the integrated use over the month and can’t spread it over the days, it won’t be that helpful, unless they died at the very beginning of the new cycle.

For Electricity in the 308-320 Canterbury Rd Habitat Apartments, it appears that there was a middle man company that was supplying and charging owners/residents and retailers/shops in the building for some or all of their utilities. (electricity/gas/water)

There has been some controversy around this sort of thing in Australia recently, in locking in apartment occupants to high utilities pricing, and someone(s) profiting from this big time.

From the below, it looks like one of the big major integrated electricity generator, and electricity and natural gas retailers (Origin Energy) that also operates Australia's largest coal-fired power Station, has assisted clean up some of this problem, by acquiring (Dec 2021) one of these middle man companies (WINConnect which was used at 308-320 Canterbury Rd Habitat Apartments)

Treacy Street Pty Ltd - Habitat Apartments network exemption

[no-lexicon]The Applicant’s exemption from the requirement to register as a network service provider and the operation of Chapter 5 of the NER came into effect on 3 November 2016. The exemption was granted under clause 2.5.1 of the NER in accordance with the AER’s Electricity NSP Registration...

www.aer.gov.au

....
Registrant/s:

• Treacy Street Pty Ltd / ABN 64 169 501 026
• WINconnect Pty Ltd / ABN 71 112 175 710

Location:
Habitat Apartments
308-320 Canterbury Road
Canterbury, NSW 2193
Australia
....

Treacy Street Pty Ltd - Habitat Apartments network exemption

[no-lexicon]The Applicant’s exemption from the requirement to register as a network service provider and the operation of Chapter 5 of the NER came into effect on 3 November 2016. The exemption was granted under clause 2.5.1 of the NER in accordance with the AER’s Electricity NSP Registration...

www.aer.gov.au

....

• Treacy Street Pty Ltd - Habitat Apartments retail exemption
• The Owners Strata Plan 95321 - Habitat Apartments network exemption

Origin (ASX:ORG) share price slips on $42 million acquisition

The Origin Energy Ltd (ASX: ORG) share price has not received a warm reception following its acquisition announcement today. Here are the details.

www.fool.com.au

one of Origin’s subsidiaries has entered into an agreement to acquire WINconnect. The Hawthorn-based company operates embedded networks mainly in Victoria and New South Wales. These services essentially involve the onselling of utilities to residents of apartment blocks, retirement villages, etc.

Furthermore, the deal will see changes made to Origin Energy’s master services agreement with Intellihub — a provider of metering solutions. The changes involved most notably include an increase in meter volumes. In addition, Intellihub will acquire both Origin’s and WINconnect’s electricity embedded network meters.

Both Intellihub and WINconnect are majority-owned by Pacific Equity Partners, making it the primary party involved in the transaction with Origin.

Once completed, the acquisition will add 87,000 embedded electricity network and serviced hot water customers to Origin with a pipeline of 36,000 further contracted apartments. The majority of WINconnect customers are in Victoria and New South Wales, with a smaller number in Queensland, South Australia and Western Australia.

 

[bfew]

For Electricity in the 308-320 Canterbury Rd Habitat Apartments, it appears that there was a middle man company that was supplying and charging owners/residents and retailers/shops in the building for some or all of their utilities. (electricity/gas/water)

There has been some controversy around this sort of thing in Australia recently, in locking in apartment occupants to high utilities pricing, and someone(s) profiting from this big time.

Some media coverage of WINConnect

Apartment building residents slugged thousands to change power companies

Jeremie Renard has been trying to change power companies for two years, but found it to be much more difficult and costly than expected after discovering the 175 apartments in his building were tied into a deal with one energy provider.

www.abc.net.au

WIN Connect is one of Australia's largest providers of embedded networks, which is where a private company powers multiple properties in the same building.

What is an embedded network?​

• A company is contracted to provide a private energy network to an apartment block
• The power is bought in bulk from grid at a single meter point and sold to occupants through sub meters
• Metering and infrastructure provided by company reduces costs for developer but ties occupants to long contracts
• Customers can be charged for switching electricity suppliers on their own and will still get service charges
• All metering needs to be changed if whole building changes supplier

"It is quite difficult as you need to assess who the meters belong to and you either need to buy them back or get new ones," Mr Renard said.

"You need to hire lawyers to help, it's extremely complex and time consuming."

Mr Renard said residents in his West Melbourne building will have to pay $50,000 to replace the metering if they switch energy providers, but will save money in the long run.
.....

Urgent reform needed 'before it's too late'​

An embedded network essentially involves a contract between the building owners, sometimes the developer, and an energy retailer to supply power to those living in the building.

Developers save costs by contracting electricity companies to supply the infrastructure and the metering throughout an apartment complex.

In return, the energy company is contracted to provide power to the whole building, which can tie customers to lengthy contracts, some as long as 20 years.

Under the contract, the company managing the embedded network can set prices on electricity tariffs, and if the agreement is terminated they may remove the meters from the building.
....
Mr Bacon said while embedded networks operated on the presumption of lower costs, the power companies could charge any fees they liked and trap customers within the network.

"Unless there is urgent reform, not next month, not next year, but right now then it is going to be too late, he said.
Mr Bacon said high-rise dwellers would often discover they were caught up in lengthy contracts they did not know existed
....

Embedded power networks see apartment dwellers become 'second-class energy citizens'

A new study by the Victoria Energy Policy Centre shows customers on embedded electricity networks in Victoria are paying up to $439 a year more than the best deal they could get if they were able to switch retailers.

www.abc.net.au

"Refunds have been paid to home owners at Stanhope Gardens in accordance with orders made by the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal as a result of substandard legislative drafting," the statement said.

"The drafting error in the legislation, which was acknowledged by the Supreme Court of NSW, has created a practically unworkable law.
...

The Consumer Action Law Centre said embedded networks were responsible for some of the worst complaints it had dealt with.

Because the private contractors running embedded networks are not covered by the same rules and regulations as energy market retailers, customers have less protection.

"People in embedded networks are second-class energy citizens," Jake Lilley of the Consumer Action Law Centre told 7.30.
...

The Australian Energy Market Commission has quoted estimates of at least half a million customers on embedded networks.

This year the commission recommended changes to the rules governing embedded networks.

Mr Lilley said a lot of people may have no idea their electricity is supplied through one of these networks.

"In some instances it looks like a normal retailer that you're signed up with, and they wouldn't realise until a dispute arises," he said.

"We've heard of some of the suppliers that act as agents in this space laughing in people's faces when they threaten switching suppliers."
...
"So some of my neighbours have been frustrated enough to sell up and leave, or just, you know, break their leases and leave where they live because of just how expensive it is and how frustrating it is that they can't switch away," he said.

ABC TV (Australia's Government owned TV network) did a special report on this in Oct 2019
See video in the below which also includes a transcript of the video.

7.30

www.abc.net.au

 

[bfew]

It shouldn't be too hard for NSW Police investigators to determine the approx. date of death of the 2 Saudi sisters in their Canterbury Unit, from a combination of their mobile device & laptop/computer related activity. Along with building utility usage (water, gas, electricity, fixed line internet (NBN?) and any in-building wifi).

If any electronic devices of either of the 2 sisters were either not in the apartment, or had information on them deleted in a way that might suggest that someone other than the 2 sisters themselves had deleted the info, that will be something that any serious Police or Coroners investigation would be looking into.