Australia Australia - Tynong North/Frankston Murders, 30 May 1980 - 9 October 1981, Melbourne

[Bohemian]

Wow, so the two Frankston pick-up points are on the same road about one and a half kilometres apart. If you're driving towards Frankston along that Frankston-Dandenong Road, you come to Skye Road which turns around and takes you away from Frankston again, and intersects with McClelland Drive. And the bodies were found, one near McClelland Drive and the other near Skye Road.

No wonder HJ was a suspect.

 

[JLZ]

Assuming it's the one killer for at least the five daylight cases, he's focussing on locations near shopping centres. Either he's found that these are good locations for scoring passengers, or he has some reason such as delivery driving for being there. Only I'm not sure whether Cranbourne Park shopping centre is that old.

 

[JLZ]

Not forgetting this guy:

http://berwicknews.starcommunity.com.au/news/2017-04-19/murder-case-local-link/

I guess we'll hear more about that in due course but for now I'm giving the benefit of the doubt on the Grimmer case.

 

[Bohemian]

Assuming it's the one killer for at least the five daylight cases, he's focussing on locations near shopping centres. Either he's found that these are good locations for scoring passengers, or he has some reason such as delivery driving for being there. Only I'm not sure whether Cranbourne Park shopping centre is that old.

‘[...] Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre which opened in 1979.’

Source:

http://www.cclc.vic.gov.au/aggregator/sources/3

‘As you can see there is very little development in High Street, the Shopping Centre opened in 1978.’

Source:

http://caseycardinialinkstoourpast.blogspot.com.au/2011/01/high-street-cranbourne-in-1960s.html?m=1

This may come in handy:

Getting Here (Public Transport)

https://www.cranbournepark.com.au/centre-info/getting-here/#public-transport

 

[JLZ]

‘[...] Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre which opened in 1979.’

Source:

http://www.cclc.vic.gov.au/aggregator/sources/3

‘As you can see there is very little development in High Street, the Shopping Centre opened in 1978.’

Source:

http://caseycardinialinkstoourpast.blogspot.com.au/2011/01/high-street-cranbourne-in-1960s.html?m=1

This may come in handy:

Getting Here (Public Transport)

https://www.cranbournepark.com.au/centre-info/getting-here/#public-transport

Thank you . . . so I figure that if Ann-Marie Sargent set out from Cranbourne Drive to catch a bus to Dandenong, she would have headed for the shopping centre.

 

[Unit45]

This is my local area, i once had a disturbing incident on the princes hwy about 1990.

But it was a couple. As i was shocked out i remember it by mind recall anytime.

I do not know why but i was being pulled away from the car.

Hopefully the reward brings someone to bring more light on the crimes. For the love of god these people must be caught.

 

[Bohemian]

Tynong North cold cases fetch $6m reward
Aneeka Simonis, Kieran Rooney
Herald Sun
October 21, 2017 1:33pm

‘The first body was found on McClelland Drive, Frankston on July 5.

It belonged to 59-year-old Allison Rooke, who was last seen leaving her Hannah St, Frankston North home on May 30 to catch a bus to Frankston shops.

Teenage girls Catherine Headland, 14, and Ann-Marie Sargent, 18, and 73-year-old Bertha Miller were found dumped near a quarry off Brew Rd in Tynong North on December 6, 1980.’

‘Ms Headland, who lived in Berwick, was last seen on 28 August after leaving her boyfriend’s home on High St, Berwick and setting out for Fountain Gate Shopping Centre by bus.

Fellow teen Ms Sargent was last seen at her mum’s home in Cranbourne Dr, Cranbourne about 9:30am on October 6.

She was also due to catch a bus and was heading toward a Dandenong employment office, then on to Clyde Post Office.

Glen Iris woman Ms Miller was last seen leaving her home on August 10 and was intending on catching a tram from Malvern Rd and High St to the Wesleyan Methodist Church in Prahran.

On November 29, 34-year-old Narumol Stephenson was last seen outside a friend’s home in Park St, Brunswick in the early hours of the morning.

Her body was discovered more than two-and-a-half years later by a man who pulled over on Princes Freeway, Tynong North to change a flat tyre.’

‘Carmel Summers, 55, was found in scrubland near Skye Rd, Frankston North on 22 November 1981.’

‘She had last been seen at a bus stop at Chile St and Frankston-Dandenong Rd, Frankston about 1pm on October 8, 1981, intending to catch a bus to the Frankston shops.’

Read more at:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...d/news-story/2908480cc05262bb1a3c44bab89c398a

 

[Bohemian]

Families plead for help as police offer $6m reward in hunt for serial killer
Steve Lillebuen
The Age
5 hours ago (as at 21:12 AEST 21 October 2017)

‘Detective Inspector Mick Hughes said police are confident they are dealing with a single serial killer, but aren't ruling out that others may have helped him.

"We are going to go back to square one. We'll start again," he said of the investigation.

"We're not satisfied that any of the earlier nominated suspects are excluded."‘

‘All six women were walking or on their way to taking public transport, were dumped in scrubland, and suffered similar injuries, Detective Inspector Hughes said.

The killer also took the victims' personal belongings.

A cause of death in the six cases, however, has never been released.‘

‘Police believe the passage of time could be helpful.

Someone who felt threatened by the killer, for instance, may not feel that way anymore since the killer is now likely in his 70s or older.

Police are also sifting through a number of leads.

One of them involves a conversation Bertha Miller had at a tram stop two weeks before she died.

A man approached her after noticing she was carrying a Bible.

"We've never identified who that is – and we're working on the principle there's a good chance he is our offender," Detective Inspector Hughes said.’

Read more at:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/f...n-hunt-for-serial-killer-20171021-gz5ind.html

 

[Bohemian]

$6 million reward for unsolved Vic murders
Jacqueline Le
Australian Associated Press/news.com.au
OCTOBER 21, 2017 9:47am

‘Police say whoever dumped the women's bodies had made efforts to conceal the victims' identities and location.

Their personal belongings had been removed and the women had been assaulted, but police are reluctant to release further details about the crimes as their investigation continues.

"Six victims using public transport, abducted off the street and murdered, and dumped in close proximity," Det Insp Hughes said.

"We're as confident as we can be that these things are linked."

Detectives are keeping an open mind about the killer's profile, but believe he would have been aged in his 30s in 1980.

"The offender is likely to be in his 70s, or older," Det Insp Hughes said.

The veteran cop says serial killers tend to work alone, but someone who may have been close to them might be in a better position to help police in 2017 than they were in 1980.

"Someone might have been threatened by this person 30 years ago and probably not threatened by them now," Det Insp Hughes said.

“They’re the very people we’re looking at.”’

Read more at:

http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...s/news-story/c00a39a0ec354ee7d7b65a6e58ae70c9

 

[JLZ]

$6 million reward for unsolved Vic murders
Jacqueline Le
Australian Associated Press/news.com.au
OCTOBER 21, 2017 9:47am

‘Police say whoever dumped the women's bodies had made efforts to conceal the victims' identities and location.

Their personal belongings had been removed and the women had been assaulted, but police are reluctant to release further details about the crimes as their investigation continues.

"Six victims using public transport, abducted off the street and murdered, and dumped in close proximity," Det Insp Hughes said.

"We're as confident as we can be that these things are linked."

Detectives are keeping an open mind about the killer's profile, but believe he would have been aged in his 30s in 1980.

"The offender is likely to be in his 70s, or older," Det Insp Hughes said.

The veteran cop says serial killers tend to work alone, but someone who may have been close to them might be in a better position to help police in 2017 than they were in 1980.

"Someone might have been threatened by this person 30 years ago and probably not threatened by them now," Det Insp Hughes said.

“They’re the very people we’re looking at.”’

Read more at:

http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...s/news-story/c00a39a0ec354ee7d7b65a6e58ae70c9

So now Narumol Stephenson is said to have been using public transport also.

 

[Unit45]

On this and another 2 cases in here, i an another are doing some remote viewing.

The other are Karen, and Beaumont.

 

[JLZ]

This 2013 article says Narumol disappeared from Northcote not Brunswick. However, Park Street runs from Brunswick to Fitzroy North, almost to Northcote. http://www.smh.com.au/comment/six-women-murdered-but-still-no-conviction-20130816-2s20u.html

There is also this which I hadn't seen before:

''The person(s) who placed the bodies near the sand quarry off Brew Road, Tynong North, took care in the way he/they placed the bodies … Such care was not shown in the placement of the bodies of the other three victims.''

 

[JLZ]

The Frankston victims both disappeared on a Friday. The two northern victims--Bertha Miller in Glen Iris and Narumol Stephenson in Brunswick or nearby--disappeared on a weekend.

 

[JLZ]

HJ speaks in the video at this link. https://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/a/37562925/prime-suspect-in-frankston-murders-says-hes-innocent/

 

[dotr]

New hunt for a serial killer: Cold case into the deaths of six women murdered in the 1980s reopened as police offer $6MILLION for new information

• Victoria police have offered $6 million of rewards in a hope to catch a cold killer
• The families of six murdered women hope new information will come to light
• Police have offered the $1 million for each of the women who were found dead
• Their deaths occurred in the 1980s and they were aged between 14 and 73 years

Bodies were found in dense bush at Frankston, in bayside Melbourne, and at Tynong North, south-east of Melbourne



Victoria Police Homicide Squad Detective Inspector Mick Hughes said one victim, Bertha Miller, was approached by a man at a tram two weeks before her death while she had been carrying a bible.



'She spoke to a friend after that and was pretty encouraged, she saw that as an opportunity to talk Christianity to that person,' he said.

Case detectives were never been able to identify who that man was but say they are working on a theory that picks him as the offender.

'If we look at all of the victims, they've either been using public transport or close to, so he's clearly seen a way in to talk to Bertha, because everything I'm told about her, she wouldn't engage with people unless there was a reason to do so.'

​

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4w7WMRu2i
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[JLZ]

I have a question for more experienced crime followers. When a body is transported, not left at the original crime scene, is there a usual time frame for the final placement? Would the transportation to the "grave" site tend to happen more or less immediately after death, or would the killer store the body for a short or longer period while making plans or awaiting a better opportunity or just preparing himself psychologically for example?

 

[Dakota70]

Here's what we know about the prime suspect in Tynong murder case.


"...The review examined several suspects but declared the "best nominated" was Harold John Janman, a former projectionist with a propensity for offering women lifts in his car and with links to both Tynong North and Frankston. But interesting links are not evidence and Janman, now aged 85, has always declared his innocence.

And so what do we know about Janman?

He presents as a deeply religious family man and a prude who would turn "girlie" photos to the wall in the small city projection room where he worked, and yet he had been charged with soliciting for the purposes of prostitution the year before the murders commenced....

More at http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/c...h-hunt-for-serial-killer-20171019-gz49pa.html

 

[LuluCherry]

If you're into podcasts, Casefile have done a very good episode about the Tynong murders: Episode 46.
And they've just released an update, regarding this episode, in relation to the recent reward announcements and police media releases, which I found very informative.
You can find the original episode and the update here: http://casefilepodcast.com/podcast-archive/

 

[EdugawaRanpo]

"And so what do we know about Janman?

He presents as a deeply religious family man and a prude who would turn "girlie" photos to the wall in the small city projection room where he worked, and yet he had been charged with soliciting for the purposes of prostitution the year before the murders commenced...

It was also around that time, he would later tell police, that "my wife was going to leave me"...

Detective: " Do you know where Skye Road is?
Janman: "Where sir?"
Detective: "Skye Road"
Janman: "No sir, i have never heard of it."

And yet for years he had worked as a projectionist at the local drive-in just off Skye Road, near where the bodyes were found...

Police took him to where the bodies were found. "[He] became nervous and sweated a lot. He walked around the site as asked, but at no time did he walk in the immediate vicinity of where the bodies had been lying..."

... Janman turned up unannounced at Frankston police station to ask Senior Constable Michael White : "You know i was brought in about two murders in Frankston, well why haven't i been asked about five murders instead of two?"

White:"Which other ones are you talking about?"
Janman:"The ones in Tynong... I'm just saying, why haven't they asked about that?"

According to FBI crime profiler Robert Ressler, serial killers often reach out to investigators:" Some offenders attemp to inject themselves into the investigation of the murder, or otherwise keep in touch with the crime in order to continue the fantasy that started it."

Janman had lived in Garfield, the area adjoining the killer's dumping ground. He had worked at a nearby hotel and was truck driver whose route took him to the Brew Road sand quarry where three of the victims's bodies were dumped.

In a subsequent taskforce investigation, codenamed Lyndhurst, Janman agreed to two polygraph tests. He failed both."

Harold John Janman is the prime suspect, and in my opinion, the serial killer. Religious man, that in many cases, is also someone with lack of confidence and self belief, in his case, he was betraying his wife with prostitutes, leading them to separation, leading him to acts of unconsciousness and if it all goes as it was, tasting the adrenaline of killing, that as any other drug, became addictive, he then, repeated it until he got noticed by police, and even then, he did not stop acting unconscious, later in investigations he lied to the detective, then his body language confirms it on the local, polygraph tests confirms it, even the modus operandus. But with no evidences it gets pretty hard, and apparently polygraph tests could not be used in court of law, thats where they are stuck. To me, he killed these seven women.

 

[dotr]

"And so what do we know about Janman?

He presents as a deeply religious family man and a prude who would turn "girlie" photos to the wall in the small city projection room where he worked, and yet he had been charged with soliciting for the purposes of prostitution the year before the murders commenced...

It was also around that time, he would later tell police, that "my wife was going to leave me"...

Detective: " Do you know where Skye Road is?
Janman: "Where sir?"
Detective: "Skye Road"
Janman: "No sir, i have never heard of it."

And yet for years he had worked as a projectionist at the local drive-in just off Skye Road, near where the bodyes were found...

Police took him to where the bodies were found. "[He] became nervous and sweated a lot. He walked around the site as asked, but at no time did he walk in the immediate vicinity of where the bodies had been lying..."

... Janman turned up unannounced at Frankston police station to ask Senior Constable Michael White : "You know i was brought in about two murders in Frankston, well why haven't i been asked about five murders instead of two?"

White:"Which other ones are you talking about?"
Janman:"The ones in Tynong... I'm just saying, why haven't they asked about that?"

According to FBI crime profiler Robert Ressler, serial killers often reach out to investigators:" Some offenders attemp to inject themselves into the investigation of the murder, or otherwise keep in touch with the crime in order to continue the fantasy that started it."

Janman had lived in Garfield, the area adjoining the killer's dumping ground. He had worked at a nearby hotel and was truck driver whose route took him to the Brew Road sand quarry where three of the victims's bodies were dumped.

In a subsequent taskforce investigation, codenamed Lyndhurst, Janman agreed to two polygraph tests. He failed both."

Harold John Janman is the prime suspect, and in my opinion, the serial killer. Religious man, that in many cases, is also someone with lack of confidence and self belief, in his case, he was betraying his wife with prostitutes, leading them to separation, leading him to acts of unconsciousness and if it all goes as it was, tasting the adrenaline of killing, that as any other drug, became addictive, he then, repeated it until he got noticed by police, and even then, he did not stop acting unconscious, later in investigations he lied to the detective, then his body language confirms it on the local, polygraph tests confirms it, even the modus operandus. But with no evidences it gets pretty hard, and apparently polygraph tests could not be used in court of law, thats where they are stuck. To me, he killed these seven women.

Welcome to Ws EdugawaRanpo, thanks for the intriguing first post!