Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #18

[Makara]

Wholeheartedly agree with you Makara.... and am sorry I brought the pic up again the other night.... I am not part of any of these large external FB groups....and had never seen the picture before the 60 minute screen grab...

A lot of conjecture...a lot of information.... I was simply trying to ascertain where the photo came from ...FORGET the blurry Wales image...as I seem to have lost people there...even though I give credit to jigzby?? if that's where he or she comes from - and claims that is a map of Wales.....I'm sure I'd know a blurry map of Australia.... (feel I'm going to get in trouble)

The point of it was...private sleuthing...if it helps you find a lead...... then call crime stoppers...that's worth it yes??

Without knowing where that image came from....if that was a map of wales...then the framed picture to the left (our left) could have been a Celtic symbol....if anyone has seen a POI'sssss ....who had a Celtic interest then maybe it was worth reporting....

Things of interest to a wales person with a celtic interest.....(have looked these up)....daffodils....oak leafs...crowns...

nuff said....


Hope you get an answer Makara....

I know how your mind works Puggle, you're very astute and a great sleuther and I do understand what you're saying. That particular pic of William is not off limits here (at this stage). It is a screen grab from the 60 Minutes video and that's fine. What isn't fine is when rumours from social media about that pic are posted here and then that rumour grows legs. To discuss and analyse the pic is fine, just don't ask me to imagine a blurred image of Australia at some ungodly hour! LOL.

Private sleuthing is up to you, but not on behalf of Websleuths. I never mention I'm a moderator or member of Websleuths when I make enquires. I'm an interested member of the public. We've all uncovered things that really can't be discussed here and have been passed onto Crimestoppers.

The bottom line here is we all want William to be found. We all want justice for him. When there is a lull in proceedings it tends to grate on our nerves and we go round and round in circles trying to find that one clue, that one piece of information that may assist in helping the police break this case. I personally think we're all doing a great job with respect and care for William and his family.

 

[Bohemian]

Mmm well maybe that gives a bit more credibility to the whole "Kicked Out" thing...

And I am imagining that the kicked out part may of even come before the 15th .... would'nt it be reasonable to assume that the allegation aspect may have even been brought up before the official charge ??

If I remember correctly, LE started investigating GAPA members; PB and/or AJ, in April 2014.

Device about to run out of juice (been on it all day) so I'll post the link in the morning. Night all *phone beeps...*

 

[Makara]

If I remember correctly, LE started investigating GAPA members; PB and/or AJ, in April 2014.

Device about to run out of juice (been on it all day) so I'll post the link in the morning. Night all *phone beeps...*

Police investigated GAPA in April 2015.

William Tyrrell investigation turns to grandparent support groups
September 5, 2015
Ava Benny-Morrison

Strike Force Rosann detectives travelled to the Mid North Coast in April to interview the group's members.
It was a few days after Mr Spedding was arrested and charged with unrelated historical child sex offences, allegedly committed in Sydney's west in the 1980's.
The GAPA members were quizzed on their knowledge of Mr Spedding and whether he was a member of the group, sources have confirmed.
Jones and Bickford were also questioned at length about any connection to William's disappearance and they were asked to provide details of where they were on September 12.
Police also turned their attention to another local support group, believed to be the Grandparent and Kinship Care Association.

CLARIFICATION: An earlier version of this story was altered to accurately report the name of the second grandparents group.

GAPA's former president Paul Bickford, who stepped down last year, has been charged with the indecent assault of a child.
Another former GAPA member, Anthony Jones of Wauchope, has also been charged with indecent assault.
It is understood he was charged shortly after William vanished from his grandmother's yard in Kendall on September 12, 2014.
Mr Battishall said the men left GAPA as soon as members found out about the alleged assaults, which he said occurred before William disappeared.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...ort-groups-20150905-gjfrug.html#ixzz3o4zgYFCt
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

 

[Bohemian]

Police investigated GAPA in April 2015.

William Tyrrell investigation turns to grandparent support groups
September 5, 2015
Ava Benny-Morrison





Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...ort-groups-20150905-gjfrug.html#ixzz3o4zgYFCt
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

Had managed to claw back 16% power before I went to bed, so just came back to add link but you've done it for me. Thank you. Sorry about typo...just saw it. Very tired eyes...tiny keyboard.

 

[Rosewood]

What If TJ was meeting Bill there to swap child or stolen goods etc and saw the child and stole him? he may have been waiting for Bill to arrive in that car that looks like the one the mother remembers?

 

[Cagney&Lacey]

Looks like the "owner" of that video has prevented embedded videos that "prevent playback from other devices". Sorry about that, I'll make them more accessible tonight.

UPDATE: embedding fixed. Playlist of 6 WT videos (60 minutes) here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhbcNnha1ai71hO8JYXKLLF9dsaZLcO6k

I've been trying to add radio interviews to my YT Channel but hit some technical snags. Please send me links to other videos/interviews and I'll add them to playlist for our Sleuthing library.

I have just been rewatching the 60mins interview thanks to Richieswan
Did anyone else pick up on the part where it's mentioned that first attending Officer Chris (I think) is a local with 3 kids of his own And knows BENAROON Drive well

what reason would a police officer have for KNOWING BENAROON DRIVE WELL.?
The first reason that comes to mind is that he has had reason to attend the street in the past whilst on duty.
Ive checked databases and there doesn't seem to be anyone residing in the street with his same last name (relative) so I'm wondering why the street is so well known to him.

Could it be the same reason that caused the 2 unidentified cars to be there on the day William disappeared

 

[Bohemian]

If I remember correctly, LE started investigating GAPA members; PB and/or AJ, in April 2014 April 2015.

<original quote corrected and snipped by me>

[Bump]

Just to clarify what I was on about last night:

The investigation into GAPA itself started in April 2015. At the same time (April 2015); ex-GAPA members, PB and AJ were "asked to provide details of where they were on September 12" [2014].

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...ort-groups-20150905-gjfrug.html#ixzz3o4zgYFCt

AJ had previously committed a number of child sexual assaults in 2013 and 2014, prior to William's disappearance. He was arrested on those offences on September 15, 2014.

Just trying to get a handle on when AJ (and/or PB) 'left' GAPA (or, more than likely, was/were given his/their marching orders). In the same link above:

"Mr Battishall said the men [PB and] AJ left GAPA as soon as members found out about the alleged assaults, which he said occurred before William disappeared."

So did AJ 'leave' GAPA before, or after, William disappeared? This might give more of an idea about if, and when, AJ was 'asked to leave' by his ex-partner or if he was living with said partner at the time of his arrest.

_______________________________________


Side bar: Does anyone know when PB was charged, ie, before or after September 15, 2014? He went to court and plead guilty on December 19, 2014 but I can't find any other reference to the charges other than the link below. Ditto as to when exactly he stepped down from the GAPA Presidency "for family reasons, other than "earlier last year":

http://www.portnews.com.au/story/2775774/pensioner-convicted-of-indecent-assault/

The dearth of information often has me wondering when the investigation into the offences by those two men began and their relationship to each other, through GAPA, was first known to LE and/or FaCS. Ditto BS whom FaCS investigated in December 2014.

 

[Bohemian]

We know TJ has a history of over 90 offences. That's just what he's been caught for. Imagine what he's got away with! His offences vary greatly, so perhaps he interacts with numerous and diverse types of associates. IMO, someone bad always knows someone badder. So with a wide range of 'habits', that's a lot of serious badass out there, possibly close to his roaming grounds. If TJ was involved, I can't see a good outcome in that sort of universe. I'm sorry to say that, but I still hold hope (I have to).

Afterthought: maybe he's a loner and doesn't have buddies on the same (or worse) wavelength. His history shows he's sloppy and hopefully he will slip here, big time.

My thoughts only. Go Jubes.

If AJ had associates of the wider criminal variety before he was convicted of child sexual assault charges, he probably won't have very many of them left except those who share his proclivities and a few other assorted lowlifes; a terrible thought in itself. To many criminals he would be marked for some harsh treatment, as they often have children of their own, and they really wouldn't want to associate with him. Hence; protective custody, or that could be a result of him breaching an AVO in May 2015, I guess.

I try not to think of the outcome if AJ was involved in William's disappearance; it's gut-wrenching. I, like you, still hold out hope William will be found alive and can be reunited with his sister.

AJ had been disowned by his family, according to MSM, and I doubt if he has many 'friends' left outside jail. I think, being a truckie, he would've lived fairly solitary life; travelling from place to place and causing havoc in peoples' lives because he effectively had no 'history'. It's hard to believe he went straight from 2004 to 2013. Hopefully, now he will have some added scrutiny.

I still think there are grounds for public registries for child/violent sex offenders throughout Australia IMO. How else are people to know if people are relatively safe to be around the children in their care, or themselves; especially in intimate relationships?

Yes, AJ appears to have been a sloppy criminal when it comes to his violent crimes. It's his ones against children I worry about. 2014 was the first time he was charged with child sexual assault? I find it hard to believe he doesn't have any priors that have been well-hidden.

Ditto re Jubes.

 

[they'll get you]

I personally don't think it was a planned abduction. I still sometimes think the person/people who took William lived in the Benaroon Drive area. They heard the laughter of William and his sister playing that morning, something that wasn't a common occurrence in the area at that time of day. That laughter may have triggered anger, curiosity or some other unknown reaction in the abductor. Whatever the reason, my personal opinion is that whoever took William is very twisted and dangerous. And they're still out there somewhere!

Yes...I sway on that very thought too...

I've swung every which way and back again. God only knows at this moment.

 

[bearbear]

yes, i agree with the possibility of someone living close by in benaroon drive taking william,
the grandmothers place has a lot of shrubbery and areas along the back to hide in and watch the children play, he could have been lured over to the bushes and picked up, dogs didnt pick his scent up beyond the front of the property,
when he went missing my first instinct was parents/family or neighbour, then bs was named poi and paedophile rings,
so a benaroon drive resident may be part of this group and know bs, they could all tie in together

 

[they'll get you]

Is this the vacant block opposite GM's? If so it appears to have been cleared.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-...search-for-3yo-william-tyrrell/6753948?pfm=ms

 

[they'll get you]

From the same article re vehicles seen.


One was described as a dark green or greyish-coloured sedan.

"That drove past the driveway of 48 Benaroon Drive, when William and his sister were riding their bikes on the driveway on the morning of his disappearance," Detective Inspector Jubelin said.

"That vehicle did a u-turn shortly after driving past the driveway, then drove out of Benaroon Drive.

"We also have reports of a four-wheel-drive leaving Benaroon Drive around the time that William disappeared."


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-...search-for-3yo-william-tyrrell/6753948?pfm=ms

 

[Karo]

If we discount the involvement of BS and the other 2 men and a pedophile ring, what is left? I stay awake at night wondering if all of that is not connected to the disappearance at all and the answer is much more simplistic.

 

[JLZ]

Have the 2 cars, apparently a white stationwagon and grey sedan, that can be seen at Lot 27 Benaroon Drive on sixmaps, been discounted?

Do we know which block the neighbour was mowing the morning of the disappearance?

 

[Acamelia]

If we discount the involvement of BS and the other 2 men and a pedophile ring, what is left? I stay awake at night wondering if all of that is not connected to the disappearance at all and the answer is much more simplistic.

What I'd give to be a fly on the wall in that investigation room...but I'm sure that they have quite a few other things to work with then just the pedophile ring imo

 

[tracecomp]

From what I have been able to ascertain...... it was a coincidence...

So not sure when he actually came on their radar....

But geez...white station wagon.... Very close (proximity) neighbours to Bill back in Wellington... Substantial wrap sheet...history of abuse towards children...2 year history of paedophile abuse against an 11 year old....

Certainly doesn't look good on paper...

Again if he is not involved...like Bill... it does seem the weight of the world of co incidences are unfavourably stacking up against them...

I am sure police have a "map" linking POIs relationships and history to each other. IMO it is more than coincidence. “Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.”

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Thoughts:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-...search-for-3yo-william-tyrrell/6753948?pfm=ms

... two cars &#8212; described as a dark grey old-model, medium-size sedan and an old white station wagon &#8212; that were parked opposite the house ...

... another two vehicles that were seen travelling in Benaroon Drive ...
One was described as a dark green or greyish-coloured sedan. "That vehicle did a u-turn shortly after driving past the driveway, then drove out of Benaroon Drive.
... reports of a four-wheel-drive leaving Benaroon Drive...
... four-wheel-drive that was speeding in the vicinity of Benaroon Drive ...

No size or further description (except colour) of the 2. sedan.
No colour or description of the 4WD.
I wonder, why.

What maybe so "special", when a sedan is taking an u-turn at the end of a dead-end-street, I wonder. Experienced drivers and young people would do so, I think?

Why 4 vehicles would have been necessary to abduct one little child??
If one car plus driver had been necessary to observe the FF and spy (where he is going, when he will return from there), this car didn't have to drive to Benaroon Drive once more. A call would be sufficient. I can't imagine "gangsters" without phone.

Did 4 cars wait for 4 persons to arrive (from parents' home town to GM's house) and then had an unwanted surprise to see them already there (because the family earlier arrived than planned)??

 

[Bohemian]

Have the 2 cars, apparently a white stationwagon and grey sedan, that can be seen at Lot 27 Benaroon Drive on sixmaps, been discounted?

Do we know which block the neighbour was mowing the morning of the disappearance?

I often wondered if the neighbour mowing the lawn had moved their cars to the road the day William went missing in order to protect them from flying debris; particularly if it was a ride-on, and so someone else had been responsible for William's disappearance, ie, speeding 4WD or u-turning grey/green car. Apparently, LE searched Benaroon Drive and all of the houses from top to bottom when William disappeared so they would know about No 27's cars. LE said that the owner(s) of the two parked cars hadn't yet come forward and so released the cars' descriptions a year later.

 

[stormyseas]

[Bump]

Just to clarify what I was on about last night:

The investigation into GAPA itself started in April 2015. At the same time (April 2015); ex-GAPA members, PB and AJ were "asked to provide details of where they were on September 12" [2014].

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...ort-groups-20150905-gjfrug.html#ixzz3o4zgYFCt

AJ had previously committed a number of child sexual assaults in 2013 and 2014, prior to William's disappearance. He was arrested on those offences on September 15, 2014.

Just trying to get a handle on when AJ (and/or PB) 'left' GAPA (or, more than likely, was/were given his/their marching orders). In the same link above:

"Mr Battishall said the men [PB and] AJ left GAPA as soon as members found out about the alleged assaults, which he said occurred before William disappeared."

So did AJ 'leave' GAPA before, or after, William disappeared? This might give more of an idea about if, and when, AJ was 'asked to leave' by his ex-partner or if he was living with said partner at the time of his arrest.

_______________________________________


Side bar: Does anyone know when PB was charged, ie, before or after September 15, 2014? He went to court and plead guilty on December 19, 2014 but I can't find any other reference to the charges other than the link below. Ditto as to when exactly he stepped down from the GAPA Presidency "for family reasons, other than "earlier last year":

http://www.portnews.com.au/story/2775774/pensioner-convicted-of-indecent-assault/

The dearth of information often has me wondering when the investigation into the offences by those two men began and their relationship to each other, through GAPA, was first known to LE and/or FaCS. Ditto BS whom FaCS investigated in December 2014.

It is interesting that these arrests/investigations were all apparently independent of the WT investigation, yet took place after William disappeared.

 

[JLZ]

I often wondered if the neighbour mowing the lawn had moved their cars to the road the day William went missing in order to protect them from flying debris; particularly if it was a ride-on, and so someone else had been responsible for William's disappearance, ie, speeding 4WD or u-turning grey/green car. Apparently, LE searched Benaroon Drive and all of the houses from top to bottom when William disappeared so they would know about No 27's cars. LE said that the owner(s) of the two parked cars hadn't yet come forward and so released the cars' descriptions a year later.

Perhaps the police do know who the cars belong to and this is a strategy to attract witnesses who perhaps haven't realized that the day they were in Benaroon Drive was the day William went missing.

The position of the cars between Lots 40 and 41 is I think an obvious onstreet place for a Lot 27 resident to temporarily park them. It's away from the two street corners (Ellendale Crescent and the turn in Benaroon Drive) and out of the way of cars backing out of drives opposite.