Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #22

[Karinna]

I was referring to custody with regards to the colloquial meaning of the term. I believe children in foster care are technically in the custody of the state, and foster parents are acting on behalf of the state.
However, children in long term foster care (where adoption is being looked at) then I think it's a bit different. Being in their care for so long, it wouldn't surprise me if adoption was going to be the eventual outcome of their situation. That's neither here nor there as regards William's situation though I suppose.

Yes, they definitely still have his sister, or did recently. They mentioned in the MSM how they had to talk to her about William.

Yes, it's normal for foster children to be returned to their bio parents even under what many of the general public would see as not ideal circumstances. However some bio parents will altruistically relinquish their children if they believe it is in their child's best interests.

Thanks for your take on it. And yes we don't know what the dynamic of this particular case is between the bio parents & foster parents and why the state removed the children from their home for whatever reason? As far as adoption of the children i have no idea, have not read anything about that situation so who knows? Sometimes though children can be in long term care without an adoption process, so who determines that, and wouldn't the state have to have the bio's permission to place their children for adoption?
Fostered children have also been placed with some dreadful carers where they are abused and that is another less than desirable situation, so those poor kids go from bad to worse.
Not saying in this case, but it happens in other cases. And then there are also terrible cases where children have been removed by the state on a whim, and parents have a dreadful time going through legal avenues to try and get their children returned to them. So lots of different scenarios for sure.

 

[Karinna]

Reminds me a lot of the McCanns fundraising.

From what i have read here i agree.

 

[Eloise]

Thanks for your take on it. And yes we don't know what the dynamic of this particular case is between the bio parents & foster parents and why the state removed the children from their home for whatever reason? As far as adoption of the children i have no idea, have not read anything about that situation so who knows? Sometimes though children can be in long term care without an adoption process, so who determines that, and wouldn't the state have to have the bio's permission to place their children for adoption?
Fostered children have also been placed with some dreadful carers where they are abused and that is another less than desirable situation, so those poor kids go from bad to worse.
Not saying in this case, but it happens in other cases. And then there are also terrible cases where children have been removed by the state on a whim, and parents have a dreadful time going through legal avenues to try and get their children returned to them. So lots of different scenarios for sure.

Yup, all of the above.

 

[they'll get you]

I think it would jeprodise having William's sister in their care.

I'm going to make an assumption that the main consequence would be losing custody of William's sister. Then potential legal action of some kind, but I'm sure the loss of custody would be enough to silence them.

Would William's FF risk the gaol term, the hefty fine and OMG imagine the lawyers fees! What help could they offer from a gaol cell? Nothing. They would definitely loose the sister if they tried.

Look what Derryn Hinch copped when he breached a court order

"Even if I think my $100,000 fine and consequential fifty days in jail with some of Australia’s worst rapist-murderers was a sick joke,” Hinch wrote.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...gher-court-order/story-fni0fee2-1226847710105

If you listen to talk-back radio you'll hear the announcer's fear of being sued if a caller starts to speak about a topic that's 'in' the courts. It's the announcer & radio station that gets sued, not the anonymous caller.

 

[they'll get you]

Could there have been a preceding court case or separate custody battle....somewhere? That would give reason to shut everything up. It's the law!


Any publication which prejudices the course of justice - A report of a court case which gives details of the defendant's previous criminal convictions before the end of the trial, would be contempt. This is because it may prejudice the judge, magistrate or jury against the defendant, if there are many previous convictions. This would reduce the chances of a fair trial. Previous convictions (often called antecedents) may not be revealed until after the verdict has been reached. They are then considered by the court to help it to decide on an appropriate punishment.

http://www.thenewsmanual.net/Resources/medialaw_in_australia_03.html

 

[Hbayne]

another train of thought is that William and his sister could be surrogate children ?

 

[wewillgetyou]

another train of thought is that William and his sister could be surrogate children ?

Interesting thought

 

[Bohemian]

Could there have been a preceding court case or separate custody battle....somewhere? That would give reason to shut everything up. It's the law!


Any publication which prejudices the course of justice - A report of a court case which gives details of the defendant's previous criminal convictions before the end of the trial, would be contempt. This is because it may prejudice the judge, magistrate or jury against the defendant, if there are many previous convictions. This would reduce the chances of a fair trial. Previous convictions (often called antecedents) may not be revealed until after the verdict has been reached. They are then considered by the court to help it to decide on an appropriate punishment.

http://www.thenewsmanual.net/Resources/medialaw_in_australia_03.html

Could be, tgy. That's the case in the disappearance of Novy Chardon. Her former partner, John Chardon, wasn't charged with her alleged murder until after being sentenced for child sex offences:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...mera-QLD-6-Feb-2013-2&p=12639656#post12639656

Or, yes, there were custody or adoption proceedings before the Family Court of Australia? The parties concerned are usually subject to Court Suppression Orders AFAIK.

The simplest explanation is that William and his sister are FC. Again, AFAIK, automatic suppression of any information identifying them or their family; biological and foster alike.

 

[Bohemian]

Apr 22, 2015

What the police are unwilling to say publicly is that their investigation has also included those closest to William. Privately, it is known that all family members have been checked and eliminated from the investigation.

And this is yet another baffling aspect of this case. Legal reasons prevent his family being identified. The most that can be said is that William’s family history is complicated. What that means is no press conferences by desperate family members, no call-outs via the media to ask the community to bring home their little
boy – the law simply doesn’t allow it.

“There is a reason for that, but we are bound by the legislation,” says Superintendent Fehon, who is unwilling and unable to go further. “We have to respect that.”

Whatever the reality, such restrictions make reporting a story such as this difficult. It also makes it difficult for the people of Kendall to understand what is happening in their town and gives rise to fear, rumour and innuendo.

http://www.aww.com.au/latest-news/crime/the-boy-no-one-can-find-20289

I can understand the 'fear, rumour and innuendo' that has resulted from the dearth of information released regarding William and 'his complicated family history'. However, I try to follow the law of parsimony (or the problem-solving principle, Occam's Razor, ie; "Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.'), which puts paid to many of the 'conspiracy theories' attempting to explain the reason(s) for William's disappearance (of which I've also indulged).

As the article (link below) states; 'What the police are unwilling to say publicly is that their investigation has also included those closest to William. Privately, it is known that all family members have been checked and eliminated from the investigation.'

http://www.aww.com.au/latest-news/crime/the-boy-no-one-can-find-20289

Therefore, I can only agree with Sarah Yule's conclusion (link below); 'that if no-one but the child's parents and grandmother knew about the visit, then the kidnapper would have had to have another reason to be there — either visiting, living or working in the area.' and that; 'It does seem that this was an opportunistic crime [...]'

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...t-suspected-william-tyrrell-kidnapper/6771350

William's disappearance seems as if it will remain a mystery until those responsible are arrested or the 'someone that knows something' contacts Crimestoppers. I hope that an inquest or inquiry is heard by the NSW Coroner sooner rather than later and his recommendations result in improved outcomes for missing children in 'out-of-home care' and their families in the future.

 

[Bohemian]

I read an article within the last few days about sexual abuse within the Brethren religious group. Two girls who flouted group rules by reporting the crimes to police were appallingly treated by about everybody they knew or could know. If William's sister was a victim of sexual abuse, perhaps the family and media are trying to protect her from this sort of vilification. If, further, there was a self-contained religious sect involved, the danger could be worse still.

About the 'tacky, commercial' media campaign--it appears that the publicity options are limited for one reason or another and perhaps this is just the best they can do under the circumstances. It also occurred to me that perhaps the foster family have an advertising/marketing background and that when they think of raising awareness about something, these are the methods that naturally occur to them and fit with their habitual strengths.

I hope that the protection of William's sister, be it physical or psychological, would be uppermost in the minds of his family, police investigators and any individual or government department/agency connected with them. Thankfully, the media have followed suit (or have been forced to, given the Court Suppression Orders).

I volunteer for a 'grassroots' organisation which also relies on donations, so I completely understand the limitations surrounding mounting an effective media/public information campaign, given scarce financial and human resources. We do the best we can do, with what we have, at any given time. I would think the 'Where's William?' campaign, and William's family, would be in a very similar situation. I would just like to see an individual or organisation provide them with more support and continued commitment.

 

[Karinna]

Is it a fact in this case that William and the other child, his supposed sister are actually biological siblings? I don't think i have seen that validated anywhere? I don't do SM and i know some people have read the bio mother's Facebook page, but can't remember if she said anything about that? Otherwise i guess it's just an assumption and the other child could be from a completely different family?

 

[Makara]

Is it a fact in this case that William and the other child, his supposed sister are actually biological siblings? I don't think i have seen that validated anywhere? I don't do SM and i know some people have read the bio mother's Facebook page, but can't remember if she said anything about that? Otherwise i guess it's just an assumption and the other child could be from a completely different family?

They are biological siblings. It has been validated on social media.

 

[Makara]

I hope that the protection of William's sister, be it physical or psychological, would be uppermost in the minds of his family, police investigators and any individual or government department/agency connected with them. Thankfully, the media have followed suit (or have been forced to, given the Court Suppression Orders).I volunteer for a 'grassroots' organisation which also relies on donations, so I completely understand the limitations surrounding mounting an effective media/public information campaign, given scarce financial and human resources. We do the best we can do, with what we have, at any given time. I would think the 'Where's William?' campaign, and William's family, would be in a very similar situation. I would just like to see an individual or organisation provide them with more support and continued commitment.

I'm in full agreement with the complete protection of William's sister in this case. It's as it should be. What I'm finding difficult to come to terms with is the soliciting for money from the public to help find William. If my child was the victim of a suspected abduction I would give everything I have to find him. I wouldn't go ahead and renovate a new home, I would be throwing those finances into doing whatever I could to bring my child home. I wouldn't be relying on others to do it for me by selling tacky merchandise. We have a police force on the case. A dedicated task force. Why the need to sell merchandise and where does that money go? What is it used for? Imagine buying a piece of that merchandise and looking at it on a daily basis, constantly reminded of little William - fate unknown. It would drive me crazy! As a member of the public and a concerned citizen, I would much prefer to put my hard earned dollars towards a private investigator if push came to shove.

According to MSM, many offers of assistance have been made from various sources to help find William or, at the very least, what happened to him. Bruce Morcombe, for whom I have the utmost respect, offered his assistance but it was rejected! Why? Yes it can be said that the Morcombe's also jumped on the money train in relying on donations from the public. Their agenda was totally different to what is being offered by the Where's William Facebook and Braveheart's. The Morcombe's raised money so that they could travel throughout Australia, visiting schools etc. to educate our younger generation of the dangers that surround them every day. Bruce and Denise Morcombe have worked tirelessly for many years and still do in their quest to help Australian children remain safe.

IMO it's time for a coronial inquest into the disappearance of William Tyrrell. It's now almost two years since he vanished and it's time to get it sorted.

 

[Hbayne]

I read that the renovations had already started and that they had to be completed . That makes sense to me.

 

[Karinna]

They are biological siblings. It has been validated on social media.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Eloise]

I read that the renovations had already started and that they had to be completed . That makes sense to me.

Apparently they were so the FGM could move in, which I can understand.

The fundraising situation combined with the lack of taking up offers of help seems weird to me though and like Makara I believe its time for this case to go to the Coroner.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[they'll get you]

Apparently they were so the FGM could move in, which I can understand.

The fundraising situation combined with the lack of taking up offers of help seems weird to me though and like Makara I believe its time for this case to go to the Coroner.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

Tyrrell case referred to Morcombe coroner
Kate Burke - Yahoo7 News on September 19, 2015, 9:20 am

The disappearance of William Tyrrell has been officially referred to the coroner who helped solve the murder of Queensland schoolboy Daniel Morcombe.

“As has been previously stated, police will continue their inquiries in the belief William is possibly still alive.”

https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/29574763/tyrrell-case-referred-to-morcombe-coroner/

 

[Eloise]

Tyrrell case referred to Morcombe coroner
Kate Burke - Yahoo7 News on September 19, 2015, 9:20 am

The disappearance of William Tyrrell has been officially referred to the coroner who helped solve the murder of Queensland schoolboy Daniel Morcombe.

“As has been previously stated, police will continue their inquiries in the belief William is possibly still alive.”

https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/29574763/tyrrell-case-referred-to-morcombe-coroner/

Yeah I know it was referred to the Coroner but there's been no inquest (if thats the word) afaik.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[they'll get you]

Yeah I know it was referred to the Coroner but there's been no inquest (if thats the word) afaik.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

Maybe this is why it hasn't ....

“As has been previously stated, police will continue their inquiries in the belief William is possibly still alive.”

https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/2957...combe-coroner/

 

[they'll get you]

The gag order.

MS Collins can't speak about her theories due to legal reasons but the other family member could speak freely about a pedophile ring.

What was her theory that she couldn't speak about? There's only one other I can think of and they have been all cleared.



Ms Collins regularly finds herself lying awake at night, staring at the ceiling and wondering what happened to her grandson. She has her theories, but for legal reasons they can’t be printed.

Another family member, who was also present for the *interview, believes the tiny superhero has fallen victim to a paedophile ring.

“Everything I read in the media about a paedophile ring — it’s like reading a book of what I thought happened,” he says.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...e/news-story/75a29dde86e5a26dd6d5e4dd963ac62d