Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #24

[sleepinoz]

I also thought i read on this case that the bio mother had visitation rights to her children or am i dreaming?

This has never been stated in MSM

 

[Karinna]

You can still have visitation rights to your biological children who are in out-of-home care. Also in the case of 'open adoption'.

Yes, but that isn't a case of losing all parental rights though. If you lost all parental rights then you wouldn't even be allowed access to your kids i would imagine.

 

[Bohemian]

Sorry I don't know the reason as to why William & sister L were taken from their bio parents. It would be against the rules here to state the reason & I don't want to break any rules. We need to be very careful about what we post...MOO..

Maybe Karinna's asking in a general sense, tiddles, ie; under what conditions would a parent lose their parental rights to a child and for the child to be eligible to be adopted.

 

[Bohemian]

Yes, but that isn't a case of losing all parental rights though. If you lost all parental rights then you wouldn't even be allowed access to your kids i would imagine.

It depends on individual circumstances; I'd suppose. 'Open adoptions' are meant to be just that; open to relationships between the child and their biological family, if appropriate.

 

[Karinna]

I didn't say they did - I said "IF" they have.

Here is some info on Involuntary Termination of Parental Rights - https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/systemwide/laws-policies/statutes/groundtermin/

Also, Children under Guardianship orders - http://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/reforms/...me-for-life/guardianship/what-is-guardianship

From your link
(quote)
The above factors become grounds for terminating parental
rights when reasonable efforts by the State to prevent out-
of-home placement or to achieve family reunification after
placement have failed to correct the conditions and/or parental
behaviors that led to State intervention.

And yes we don't know why the children in this case were removed at such a very young age.

 

[Bohemian]

After reading some but not all of the discussion I have a couple of questions:
1) is there any actual evidence to suggest this child was abducted or just a lack of evidence he was lost? Except that the dogs didn't smell him (which may be nothing).

2). I wonder if he could have been hit by a car and someone took his body and dumped it elsewhere.

Hi Beth!

All of the parents' and lead investigator's pressers are here:

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC8Y6M4ZwCV73aIu6Fgs-L_Q

Of particular interest are the police interview with the FPs, 60 Minutes' program and the most recent appearance by the lead investigator when a reward for information was announced.

 

[ozazure]

Thanks Bohemian, a lot of info. there to have to wade through LOL. I was thinking more along the lines of what child around WT's age group have we heard of that has been abducted by a total stranger that has been a high profile case in the news? I couldn't think of any. I know the sad case of the Beaumont children has never been solved and there were three children from memory.

I recall some and can dig them up, but if a body is found or they are solved they fall out of the news pretty quick. Compare Ebony Simpson to Daniel Morcombe, where her killer and body were located within 48 hours, whereas Daniel's fate was unknown for years. Attractive kids, going about their business independently, abducted, assaulted and murdered. Her story was in the news but she is not the household name like Daniel is, even though her mother went on to do advocacy much like Bruce and Denise, creating the Homicide Victims Support Group. ... I think the main difference is the longevity of the story being told.

Here are a few cases involving young children and (potential for one of them) abduction:

Deidre, 17 months, 1973
http://www.mako.org.au/unsolved-murders-Deidre-Kennedy.html

Simon, 3, 1968
http://www.mako.org.au/simon-brook-murdered-toddler.html

Rahma El-Dennaoui, 19 months, 2005
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-believe-close-finding-took-little-girl.html

Kirste Gordon, 4, with Joanne Ratcliffe, 11. (suspected to be linked with the Beaumonts).
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...r/news-story/a20c5f0e8db7de5c81c22ff316971a30

There would be others for certain, there's no one good way to find them, I found these again because I had come across them in the past.

 

[Karinna]

I think what my problem is in this case is that we haven't heard anything from the biological mother of the Tyrell children. I know SM is out of bounds, and i don't do SM so have no idea what she thinks about it all. And if she doesn't want to talk about it, then maybe she as well is not allowed to discuss the situation or she simply doesn't want to. But she has got her act together from what was stated upthread, and has other children now, so her circumstances have changed. But there is also that side of things too. It's sad for these types children, because as adults they will have issues about their family backgrounds, IMO.

 

[Karinna]

I recall some and can dig them up, but if a body is found or they are solved they fall out of the news pretty quick. Compare Ebony Simpson to Daniel Morcombe, where her killer and body were located within 48 hours, whereas Daniel's fate was unknown for years. Attractive kids, going about their business independently, abducted, assaulted and murdered. Her story was in the news but she is not the household name like Daniel is, even though her mother went on to do advocacy much like Bruce and Denise, creating the Homicide Victims Support Group. ... I think the main difference is the longevity of the story being told.

Here are a few cases involving young children and (potential for one of them) abduction:

Deidre, 17 months, 1973
http://www.mako.org.au/unsolved-murders-Deidre-Kennedy.html

Simon, 3, 1968
http://www.mako.org.au/simon-brook-murdered-toddler.html

Rahma El-Dennaoui, 19 months, 2005
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-believe-close-finding-took-little-girl.html

Kirste Gordon, 4, with Joanne Ratcliffe, 11. (suspected to be linked with the Beaumonts).
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...r/news-story/a20c5f0e8db7de5c81c22ff316971a30

There would be others for certain, there's no one good way to find them, I found these again because I had come across them in the past.

Thanks for your reply. So two babies, how horrible. And two children in the 3-4 yr. old age bracket. Still a very rare occurence though in Australia.

 

[Bohemian]

Thanks for your reply. So two babies, how horrible. And two children in the 3-4 yr. old age bracket. Still a very rare occurence though in Australia.

Here's some more from MAKO:

http://www.mako.org.au/unsolvedcrimes.html

http://www.mako.org.au/missingunsolved.html

 

[deugirtni]

Police dogs have failed to pick up any scent trails to suggest William wandered away from his grandparents’ house.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...-fifth-day-william-tyrell#PJljKtG8LbyWs8Mt.99

 

[deugirtni]

Police confirmed sniffer dogs brought in to search around Kendall, near Port Macquarie, for William Tyrell had found no scent trail of the three-year-old.

Police sniffer dogs have not been able to determine any sign of the boy.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...liam-heads-into-fifth-day#LueahiKAz3fUHCWc.99

 

[deugirtni]

Neither police sniffer dogs nor cadaver dogs had been able to pick up any sign of the boy, Fehon said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...olice-say-chances-of-survival-are-diminishing

 

[Karinna]

Accuracy of police sniffer dogs called into question
There are calls for police sniffer dog operations to be stopped as fresh figures show the canines get it wrong in the majority of cases.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-12/accuracy-of-police-sniffer-dogs-called-into-question/3726228

 

[Karinna]

So seems like sniffer dogs are not very reliable. I can remember postings about this in the Noah Chamberlin missing tot case as well. And more difficult to detect a very young child as well, but can't remember exactly what the reason for that was now. I guess a child's scent is quite different to an adult.

 

[deugirtni]

I guess I had forgotten (or hadn't realized) that the W's, who lived next door, had also moved away from the street since the disappearance of WT.

30 Benaroon Drive, Kendall
Sold $489,000 in Dec 2015
List $489,000
Last Sold $402,000 in Oct 2010
Acreage: 3 2 4
Land size: 4,046 sqm | Building size: 194 sqm
Agent:

Property Description:
Tranquil Setting on One Acre Close to Town
Beautifully presented, maintained and updated this brick veneer home with 3 bedrooms, separate study/office with air conditioner, two entertainment areas and 1 1/2 bathrooms is situated on an approx. 4240m2 block among quality homes in a small, charming rural residential estate in Kendall village and the surrounding gardens create a haven for the abundant visiting bird and wildlife.
A large screened room opens off the newly renovated kitchen - ideal for parties, plus a covered alfresco area opens off the lounge with a northeasterly aspect so a perfect spot for breakfast or lunch. The gardens are spacious and easy care with a delightful 'hidden' garden at the rear of the property.
The home is tiled throughout all the living areas and bedrooms are carpeted. The main bedroom is large with walk in robe and modern en suite. The lounge features reverse cycle air conditioning plus gas connection and a wood heater to keep you cosy in the winter.
The kitchen is extremely functional with the latest in quality appliances including a touch control ceramic cooktop, Miele dishwasher, slide out extractor fan, built in water filter and multiple power points for
http://house.ksou.cn/p.php?q=Kendall&sta=nsw&id=353202&address=30+Benaroon+Drive,+Kendall

Looks like the one with the fence where the vehicles were apparently seen parked in between driveways also sold at same time:

31 Benaroon Drive, Kendall
Sold $480,000 in Dec 2015
Last Sold $397,500 in May 2005(Auction)
House: 6 2 3
Land size: 4,498 sqm
http://house.ksou.cn/p.php?q=Kendall&sta=nsw&id=449208&address=31+Benaroon+Drive,+Kendall

And this one:

35 Benaroon Drive, Kendall
Sold $308,500 in Jun 2015
Last Sold $112,000 in Jan 2001
House: 2 1
Land size: 4,088 sqm
Agent: Kew First National Real Estate
http://house.ksou.cn/p.php?q=Kendall&sta=nsw&id=396672&address=35+Benaroon+Drive,+Kendall

Others on the street which sold earlier are listed here.... some photos and floor plans available here as well.
http://house.ksou.cn/p.php?q=Benaro...price=0&minbed=0&maxbed=0&minland=0&maxland=0

 

[crabstick]

Based on the structure of these houses having the type of sub structure they have, I pondered if police had checked for underground spaces where William ma have been stored until the heat settled.
This immediate vaporise into thin air may mean William was stashed not far from where he disappeared. While Im sure the normal space in a house was checked, were the houses checked for cellar style voids that would not be immediately evident. Im discussing more than WIlliam may have hid, but William may have been stashed in the style of home built on sloping ground such as grandmas, and BS residence. Im not suggesting that William may be at either. BS sub-structure has already been checked.
I'm suggesting surrounding homes with hidden voids.

You know, the father came back pretty fast. He may have seen passing vehicles in the limited arterial roads on the way out. Someone in a car on their way out was taking massive risk at been seen with bright red spiderman in the front. It could otherwise be a void nearby he was stashed shortly????

I am talking about a secret room...

Neighbour Paul Savage was one of the first to start searching for William after his frantic neighbour screamed that he was missing.
"If he had wandered, he would have been found," Savage says.
"When I go for a walk you still find yourself keeping an eye out, hoping for a scream or a yell and not a horrible smell.
"I don't know how his family has coped, it must be torture for them."
All the homes in the estate were searched. And then searched again.
Missing kids are found hiding under beds and in cupboards more times than wandering the streets. But not in this case.
"We have had police through three times," Richard Wilson says.
"Every cupboard, they have had a look in the ceilings, have had a look in the boots of cars."

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2833053/william-tyrell-how-a-boy-vanished-into-thin-air/

 

[crabstick]

I am still miffed at the fact I saw on the news, police were looking for a bronze Nissan patrol that drove off through the forest, but it was apparently only seen in WA.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

There is no person we don't see. Have you seen the metro goldwyn lion roaring? He was most likely just moving his head around like a lion does when it roars, not roaring at someone specific. He looks cheerful. We don't know if his sister looked up the next millisecond. I imagine there are a series of pictures we haven't seen because of her face being in them. Taking a costume is not overly thoughtful. By the sounds of it it was his current "thing", parents take that stuff with them because they want the kids to be happy, and they want to experience that special aspect of their child's personality with the grandparent. My youngest had a bit of a fixation with a certain type of toy as a toddler, the family enjoyed it and indulged him in it because it is cute, it's an important part of who they are. And what of it if he got up on the wrong foot? Not that negotiating clothes with a kid that age is anything remarkable, it can be done without any stress or drama if the kids are used to being heard and having a reasonable say. The neighbour heard laughter of children playing, the parents report a normal happy morning with the kids, there is literally nothing to discount their statements.

bbm

FM found it remarkable - and that fact I find verrry remarkable. - Other things you mentioned are more or less a matter of opinion.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Old article but interesting observations from Supt Paul Fehon (Port Macquarie LAC) and neighbours; including Judy Wilson:

Missing toddler William Tyrell victim of possible targeted kidnapping from Kendall
Lia Harris
The Sunday Telegraph
January 3, 2015 10:00pm

'THE search for missing three-year-old William Tyrell is being treated as a possible targeted abduction.'

'While police are not ruling anything out, after an extended large-scale search of the surrounding bushland spanning weeks after his disappearance they are confident William did not wander off on his own.'

'It is also understood he was not prone to venturing more than a short distance from his parents.'

'Supt Fehon said a lack of evidence pointing to any particular scenario leading to William’s disappearance had investigators stumped.

“It’s got to be either adventure that’s turned into misadventure, or human intervention. Because we’re not finding anything on that side, we’ve got to be open to the possibility of human intervention,” he said.

“Everyone involved in the case and even those not involved still remain a possibility as having something to do with what has occurred.”'

'LYING IN WAIT?

THE person who abducted toddler William Tyrell may have laid in wait until the nearby houses were empty before striking, a neighbour believes.

Judy Wilson, whose property adjoins William’s grandmother’s backyard, believes it may be more than just coincidence that the child disappeared only after she went to run errands in town.

She said someone could have been waiting for her to leave, potentially aware that the neighbour on the other side was also away.

“If someone was watching the house, they would’ve seen me leave and would’ve known the other neighbour was away,” she said

Her theory emerged as it was revealed that a second access point to the street could hold the key to cracking the case.'

'Neighbours said a walking trail, dubbed the “bush track” by local children, starts at the end of Benaroon Drive, where William disappeared almost four months ago, and leads through the scrubland into the nearby Kendall cemetery.

Supt Paul Fehon, who is one of the leading investigators in the three-year-old’s disappearance, confirmed police had considered the track could be relevant to the case, but so far had not found any evidence to suggest it was used.'

'Mrs Wilson also told how William’s father frantically searched her yard over and over again into the night.

“He was just walking around crying. He kept asking me if there was anywhereelse he could’ve been hiding here,” Mrs Wilson said. “He just looked devastated.”

Mrs Wilson said she heard the two children playing in the neighbouring yard before she left to run errands in the township about 90 minutes before William disappeared, just metre’s from her home.'

'It was not the first time the family had visited Kendall, but their visits had become more frequent in recent months after William’s grandfather died earlier in the year.

Locals recalled seeing William and his family at a neighbourhood Christmas event the previous December.'

https://www.google.com.au/url?q=htt...CB4wBg&usg=AFQjCNGGHY4RIuCWC7aX7r6W5x4PloOeZg

bbm green
??? Thought I had heard the contrary? They hadn't visited since FGF's death ...? Now I'm very again.