Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #24

[Warshawski]

His mother said: “To the person who feels stuck and tied to a relationship or controlled by someone and doesn’t have freedom,.............................
William’s dad said: “The reward has been done for a specific purpose and that’s to achieve an outcome, whatever that looks like.”

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...n/news-story/767a2d54a9a2ed3f54f96863e224b45b

Thinking about the named poi ..... who comes to mind?

hey Soso, no Rhodes Scholar needed for that answer first off, HOWEVER, perhaps an easy smoke screen...perhaps.

I would imagine all decent & sane family members, friends & associates of Whoever is the perpretator/s, will be feeling Stuck, Tied, Confused, Frightened and any number of other emotions. It must be an awful burden to have a little boys life on your conscious.

I really am trying to keep an open mind in assessing the information that becomes public, which is very light on, but I do believe Jube has a room full of whiteboards that are zeroing in on the culprit. ( I noted comment re the lack of prompt investigation of the forensics on Brett Cowen's car - I don't believe for a minute that Det. Jubelin would let anything lapse. He is too focused and I doubt his team is allowed to slack

 

[SouthAussie]

There is no point becoming frustrated with investigators, as tempting as it is to do so.
We are vested in the outcome as onlookers who empathise with the family - but imagine how the police members feel who have met and spoken to and become close to the family, have participated in the searches, have worked on the case and had their hopes raised by sightings and potential leads, only to have them dashed again. It would be life changing and devastating for some I would imagine. Especially if they never solve. I imagine this is why DCI Jubelin has his yoga and his meditation etc
The agitation such a job could cause your mind can only be imagined.....

The personal effect of a case like William's must be unbelievably hard on the members of the investigating squad(s).
Two days ago they published an article about Conviction, an upcoming documentary about the Jill Meagher case. Not the same, but equally as devastating ... as too many cases are.

I feel that the police in Strike Force Rosann would feel very similar to these comments about the police involved in Jill's case:



- "Some people talk about that job as like throwing a hand grenade into the crew".
- We learnt that while homicide detectives are all different, they have one thing in common – a great sense of empathy.
- They are the only ones who immerse themselves in the case from beginning to end – culminating, they hope, with a Supreme Court conviction. And they are the ones who bond with the victim's family, who see these detectives as their only hope for justice.
- "There was no doubt that the teams were under pressure. This wasn't any other job."
- the impact on police was profound with two members of the forensic team so affected by post-traumatic stress they have not returned to work.

http://www.smh.com.au/victoria/convicted-how-police-caught-jill-meaghers-killer-20160914-grg666.html

 

[Puggle]

:goodpost: I agree with you wholeheartedly.....It's about time that everyone involved in William's disappearance stop pussyfooting around and look at all possible avenues to find the truth about what really has happened to William......Surely by now there is enough evidence available....MOO.

Tiddles...... I dont think there is enough evidence available. .....lots of circumstational evidence I would think.....mainly to convict BS.....but I'm sure thats not what you meant.

As you can see here...there is a cross section of beliefs. ..ideas....maybe he fell down a hole and simply hasn't been found, he has been overlooked ......

Then others firmly of the belief the main person of interest is the culprit...

Police won't risk charging anyone unless they are sure.....rightly so...

I'm frustrated too .... but I want this right...

So if your saying there is enough evidence ....... what evidence do you mean? .....and what theory of what happened to William are you expecting police to act on...

We are all in a rush....and want to know where or what has happened to William.....

Sadly......I think patience is needed...as its a complex case...with so many facets to explore.


Police can't act on anything until they can proove the facts......

 

[bearbear]

there was something on channel nine news tonight
at 6 about william but i only caught a glimpse, not sure what it was? did anyone see it?

 

[Warshawski]

bbm

If I think about an abduction by a not-family-member:

Maybe, there is a wife/female partner of someone whom is secretly suspected by her to be the perp.
If there are several adult children with their partners and their own children then the female person would be also tied up due to that. The person would have to compare getting $1m and her "freedom" vs. probable lost of her whole (large) family.The family (daughters/sons/stepdaughters/stepsons/grandchildren) first wouldn't believe her (to have done something to WT) and any way stick to the perp forever perhaps
.
If the wife/female partner knows of sex. abuse of own family members also and never had said a word, how is this person able to expose her spouse/partner now? The adult children would never forgive her to have tolerated their own abuse in their childhood but to expose not only her spouse but also the abused daughters/sons/grandchildren for $1m (nobody will promise (right so!) to not investigate all these things which would come up happened in the past).

Unfortunately impossible to open up about suspicions because of the immeasurable circle of involved individuals, I think. MOO

Hi FromGermany - like you I think without a doubt there are extended family members to contend with, no matter who is responsible.

I do somewhat see your arguement for silence, but think perhaps that although closely associated, if the burden does not lie in the knowledge of abuse of 'own flesh & blood', then it may be a little easier to come forward. Mind you, abuse of my flesh & blood would lead me to actions of a judged criminal nature, so I do have huge difficulty in understanding any silence in this matter.

 

[Warshawski]

Why are we discussing FGM septic tanks? This is an impossibility!!!!
Yep, correct, council have a services plan which clearly maps the tanks etc. Not only is it mapped, plumbers can easily find the components, mainly due to their extensive knowledge and the fact a plumber has to fit the tanks according to standards.

There is only a small hole into the tank, once it has been excavated. Tanks are only emptied every 4 years or so, sometimes decades. I think my parents house was done once in 20 years. The soil above the tank must be removed to access the tank.

William cannot fit literally. He has more chance falling down a neighbours well reticulation system. The FPs have an image of William taken the morning the morning William went missing. There is metadata in the image showing Williams photo taken the morning he went missing.

If you are suggesting FPs put Will in a tank, not possible in the time. To chop the child in little pieces would make an enormous mess. It would take too long.

Murdered woman (Cariad Anderson-Slater) found in septic tank decades later
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/w...-suspected-murder-accused-20120319-1vfzw.html

Someone would have to dig up the lid of the septic tank. In this case the tenant must of in his own time. Disturbed soil would have been obvious initially.

Had Williams FF left prior the image of William taken?

No doubt the million dollars is going to become an ever increasing parachute if someone is convicted and going to jail.

Are you talking about the 'patio scene of William, FG's feet, and sister L in rear busy at her 'work'. If so, I've wondered about that also Crabby. Thank you.

 

[Warshawski]

That's what i find so baffling in this case. William was out there for such a short time unsupervised from what was said, and what are the odds of that happening? Very slim to none i would think. Someone would surely have to be waiting and hoping for such an opportunistic abduction to happen, because there is no way they would of known WT was going to be left out there unattended at all unless they were a mind reader. And i agree the fact the yard was unfenced and the house wasn't flat on ground level didn't help either. What a shame FGM didn't have CCTV footage around the house.

100% agree Karinna. I tried to poste a scenario a week or so ago but doubt it made publication for whatever reason.

i dont see this as 'opportunistic' due to the fact that statement implies 'no planning & of the minute' to my mind.

'No Planning' would leave huge gaps in escape & concealment I believe. .. so the fact that we have no result would suggest this has been very Carefully Planned with all bases covered ( they think )

 

[Warshawski]

IMO I believe you are missing the whole point that I have been trying to make.

The point is William was only unsupervised for 5 minutes, as has been reported.

It is really a miracle that a 3 year old child can be abducted or disappear in that very short space of time in such quiet and peaceful surroundings. It will probably never ever happen again (hopefully).

There is something desperately missing re information about William's disappearance.....A child cannot simply disappear off the face of the earth in 5 minutes....MOO.

Really - is that the estimate....5 minutes? I thought it was less than that - like - Roar - heard from the kitchen - then silence... In the space of a second or 2!

Or is the 5 minutes from the actual sighting of him on the patio before Mum went to make tea, until she heard nothing ? Stil that seems a huge time frame. ..

William has gone around the side of house, out of sight of FG still on patio ...... 5 minutes IMO is actually quite a long time ...he could have gone anywhere.

 

[Warshawski]

And how much longer is that going to take, with all the resources that are available to DCI Jubelin, Strike Force Rosann, the NSW Police force and the public etc.??? Another 6 or so years as in Daniel Morcombe's case. The police virtually lost interest in Daniel's case after a few years. The only reason that his killer was found is that Bruce & Denise Morcombe never gave up searching for answers, even though the police had....MOO.

And likewise, I don't believe William's family and friends will ever give up Tiddles, so I would suggest those responsible can look forward to a similar fate as Brett Cowan - that is UNLESS they TAKE ADVANTAGE of the latest amnesty offer in terms of the Reward. You can bet that even if solid information given does not qualify for the Million Dollars, it will certainly qualify for something.

 

[deugirtni]

Sure am Makara. It has only just started happening recently. Just another technological event to try my patience! lol..

Have you tried rebooting your computer? That is *always* the first thing an IT person will ask you to do. moo

 

[crabstick]

There is a pretty high chance he would have floated if he drowned.

Before there were any POI 's in this case, my initial thought was that William had gone in a totally different direction to the bush, and had somehow found his way to the river before anyone went in that direction, that river goes out to the Tasman sea, I remember seeing divers but that was days later at the river, if he had drowned I doubt they would have found him, however I was assured no way could that have happened.
If BS could produce someone who saw him at school assembly, I'd seriously go back to some sort of innocent misadventure.

 

[Bohemian]

and I believe I read 'extended family' so I take that to mean bio as well ??

Do you have a link to where DCI Jubelin said that 'extended family' was ruled out? Remembering William's BGM, NC, has been reported on as being a POI, as was her 'best friend' KL (who has a history of associating with AJ)?

 

[deugirtni]

:goodpost: I agree with you wholeheartedly.....It's about time that everyone involved in William's disappearance stop pussyfooting around and look at all possible avenues to find the truth about what really has happened to William......Surely by now there is enough evidence available....MOO.

It truly scares me that, imho, it almost seems as though the investigation may be discounting some things, just because it doesn't fit with what they are thinking/believing at this time (for a long time). For example, the way it is stated that certain things have been ruled out, it is stated definitively, as if they are complete impossibilities. But because this is still a mystery, and there isn't enough evidence of anything in particular, *anything* could be possible, until the case is cracked.

LE had discounted Cowan in Morcombe's case as a viable suspect, based on making certain determinations from pieces of info available to them, but their determinations turned out not to be correct. If only, with all of that manpower, someone had been designated to follow up on all of the evidence samples, where they went, were they completed, what were the results (I'm not sure that something of DM was found in Cowan's vehicle, but one would have to presume that there would be evidence there).

The 'what-ifs' in this case are numerous, even thinking on things that seem perhaps rather obvious (like missing something in a well/sewer/septic/grate/whatever, or as someone mentioned, what if little WT had gained more ground than expected and he'd gone in a *different* direction than what was thought, or what if there was some kind of horrible accident that could have been covered up, or what if he wasn't really even present on the trip to FGM's at all, or, or, or ?), nevermind all of the things that could potentially occur which perhaps nobody could even think of.

And as in Morcombe's case, this is so huge, and police have been bombarded with SO much info, how easy would it be to skim by, or discount, perhaps that one piece of info/tip/whatever that could have yielded the next step which could have broken the case wide open? It isn't just the Morcombe case where police have dropped the ball, it is in many cases, and everywhere. Please, if a ball is dropped in this case, let it be a ball of honest error, rather than just a refusal to follow up on other scenarios because it doesn't meet their particular beliefs. All moo.

 

[Karinna]

100% agree Karinna. I tried to poste a scenario a week or so ago but doubt it made publication for whatever reason.

i dont see this as 'opportunistic' due to the fact that statement implies 'no planning & of the minute' to my mind.

'No Planning' would leave huge gaps in escape & concealment I believe. .. so the fact that we have no result would suggest this has been very Carefully Planned with all bases covered ( they think )

Yeah i just don't know in this case, the whole case is very odd IMO, and there is lots of grasping at straws also as to what really happened, also IMO.
We have from what we have read well to do FP's and lower socio economic bio family with perhaps some criminality thrown into the mix. I don't know what reason those children were removed by FACS or whatever Govt. dept. removed them. I think WT was an infant when removed from his mother? Was there an application for adopting those children, and was that the complicated legal issue? Too many questions for me.

 

[koios]

This thought has crossed my mind too Koios, as it would explain such a sudden disappearance, however, I would imagine falling into something like that would have been accompanied by a Cry out at least. I also believe that the disturbance to the area would then have been visible to searchers.

Whether a cry would result would depend on the circumstances and there have been cases where none was heard. If lid a is concealed by plants it may not be visible to searchers. There have been cases in which a lid has flipped when trod on then flipped back into place. Or if a corroded concrete or metal lid, hidden under soil and maybe overgrown, partly collapsed when weight applied, the resulting movement of soil might hypothetically re-cover the hole.

 

[SouthAussie]

Do you have a link to where DCI Jubelin said that 'extended family' was ruled out? Remembering William's BGM, NC, has been reported on as being a POI, as was her 'best friend' KL (who has a history of associating with AJ)?

"Jubelin’s first task was a comprehensive review of the search. “Once I was assured that it was a thorough and professional search then, OK, if he’s not lost, he’s been snatched.” After meticulously investigating William’s immediate and wider family the detectives have ruled them out."

How could toddler William Tyrrell simply vanish into thin air?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...sh-into-thin-air/story-e6frg6z6-1227308929078
April 18, 2015

 

[crabstick]

Totally agree, 5 minutes is a long time. A child can be in a car on footpath in 5 seconds.

Really - is that the estimate....5 minutes? I thought it was less than that - like - Roar - heard from the kitchen - then silence... In the space of a second or 2!

Or is the 5 minutes from the actual sighting of him on the patio before Mum went to make tea, until she heard nothing ? Stil that seems a huge time frame. ..

William has gone around the side of house, out of sight of FG still on patio ...... 5 minutes IMO is actually quite a long time ...he could have gone anywhere.

 

[sosocurious]

Do you have a link to where DCI Jubelin said that 'extended family' was ruled out? Remembering William's BGM, NC, has been reported on as being a POI, as was her 'best friend' KL (who has a history of associating with AJ)?

After meticulously investigating William’s immediate and wider family the detectives have ruled them out. They’ve come to the conclusion he was snatched by a stranger; one terrifyingly likely motive is sexual gratification. They are hunting for a paedophile.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...sh-into-thin-air/story-e6frg6z6-1227308929078
How could toddler William Tyrrell simply vanish into thin air?
18 April 2015

 

[sosocurious]

^^ditto SA

 

[SouthAussie]

^^ditto SA

Best article ever written about William's disappearance. imo


"We drive with Jubelin to the scene of the abduction — it is his seventh or eighth trip there.

“You are here,” he says as we look up through trees to the house, “and you see a three-year-old kid in a Spider-Man suit on the road and there’s no one else around. What do you do?” It’s pretty easy to establish a rapport with a little boy. G’day Spider-Man. How are you going? Where’s your mum?

The way Jubelin sees it, you open the door and you put him in the car. Perhaps your first thought is to return him to his parents. Certainly, if anyone saw you now, you could say you were driving him to the police station in Laurieton, 15 minutes away. Instead of knocking on doors, you head back out past the showground. No one *follows you. You cross the Camden Haven River and nobody notices young William with the seatbelt over him. You bypass the police station in Laurieton and you just keep driving. By the time William’s mother calls 000 you are 30km away. There are tens of thousands of hectares of dense bushland between you and Kendall. *William is strapped in beside you, dressed in his Spider-Man suit."