Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #25

[SouthAussie]

And all of the residents in Benaroon Drive, who haven't been named as POI's, can breathe easy and won't end up on a spreadsheet.

Yes, though I'm not convinced that someone local is not involved. It really seems the most logical outcome. But if the police haven't pointed to that, there is a reason for it.

The only other logical outcomes, to me, that I can think of are - William truly being lost somewhere, or Spedding breezed in to do a quick install but breezed out again feeling that no-one saw him.

 

[koios]

Koios, you know when I first saw that drain near the grandmother's house back in 2014 my heart did a flip-flop. I was thinking that William may have somehow crawled into, or had fallen in there and the searcher's had missed him. I can only speak for myself here but it is always in the back of my mind that William may have been missed during all of the searches, that the ground had literally swallowed him up. Having said that, I do believe that every resource has been utilised and every avenue has been explored in negating a case of misadventure in William's disappearance. The fact that there is now a $1M reward on offer indicates to me that the police know a whole lot more than we're privy to.

William's disappearance is being treated as an abduction, not misadventure by falling down a drain or drowning in a water tank. I truly believe that the police know who took William, they just need to get all of the evidence to finally make an arrest.

The hypothetical scenario would be accidentally falling in, feet first.
That sounds ridiculously impossible because one might correctly argue that no child would stand on an obvious open hole.
However there is a way it can happen,based on reports of what happened in image #2 in GA. 1.Sits on cover slab. 2.While sitting there puts feet in opening. 3.Can't get feet out of opening while remaining sitting. 4.Stands up to get feet out. 5.Feet slip further into opening. 6.Falls completely through opening. 7. Falls vertically to the pipe.

 

[Makara]

The hypothetical scenario would be accidentally falling in, feet first.
That sounds ridiculously impossible because one might correctly argue that no child would stand on an obvious open hole.
However there is a way it can happen,based on reports of what happened in image #2 in GA. 1.Sits on cover slab. 2.While sitting there puts feet in opening. 3.Can't get feet out of opening while remaining sitting. 4.Stands up to get feet out. 5.Feet slip into opening. 6.Falls completely through opening. 7. Falls vertically to the pipe.

I get what you're saying and that is the exact scenario I initially thought of. The fact of the matter is that the huge team of investigators have ruled it out. Yes there is always that niggly thought that William may have been inadvertently missed during the numerous searches but (and I can only speak for myself here) I'm willing to accept the fact that misadventure has been totally ruled out.

 

[Makara]

Yes, though I'm not convinced that someone local is not involved. It really seems the most logical outcome. But if the police haven't pointed to that, there is a reason for it.

The only other logical outcomes, to me, that I can think of are - William truly being lost somewhere, or Spedding breezed in to do a quick install but breezed out again feeling that no-one saw him.

No, I'm not convinced that a local isn't involved either SA. In fact I'm convinced that is the case. I just feel sorry for all of the other residents in Benaroon Drive who had nothing to do with William's disappearance and are now being scrutinised to the point where it is suggested that a spreadsheet be compiled on them. I can imagine how I would feel if I was one of those totally innocent residents.

 

[koios]

No, I'm not convinced that a local isn't involved either SA. In fact I'm convinced that is the case. I just feel sorry for all of the other residents in Benaroon Drive who had nothing to do with William's disappearance and are now being scrutinised to the point where it is suggested that a spreadsheet be compiled on them. I can imagine how I would feel if I was one of those totally innocent residents.

A summary in my opinion is that there were lots of people home on the north-south section of the road, and none of them noticed anything suspicious.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, though I'm not convinced that someone local is not involved. It really seems the most logical outcome. But if the police haven't pointed to that, there is a reason for it.

The only other logical outcomes, to me, that I can think of are - William truly being lost somewhere, or Spedding breezed in to do a quick install but breezed out again feeling that no-one saw him.

OTOH, we have heard of at least a couple of residents in the immediate area who seem to have been somewhat hounded by LE ever since. (i. when the resident at #43 talked about his neighbour who had moved; and ii) the grandmother-of-10 mentioned it I believe). Although LE hasn't pointed to that possibility, it may be because they don't tell us everything. jmo.

 

[deugirtni]

A summary in my opinion is that there were lots of people home on the north-south section of the road, and none of them noticed anything suspicious.

Even people who are said to have been travelling in/out of the street right around the critical time don't mention noticing even a vehicle passing in the same/opposite direction, parked on the side of the road, or sitting in a vehicle lurking, etc. It seems like it is prudent to keep an open mind to any possibilities until such time as WT is found in one way or another. moo

 

[deugirtni]

The hypothetical scenario would be accidentally falling in, feet first.
That sounds ridiculously impossible because one might correctly argue that no child would stand on an obvious open hole.
However there is a way it can happen,based on reports of what happened in image #2 in GA. 1.Sits on cover slab. 2.While sitting there puts feet in opening. 3.Can't get feet out of opening while remaining sitting. 4.Stands up to get feet out. 5.Feet slip further into opening. 6.Falls completely through opening. 7. Falls vertically to the pipe.

This is not the same by any means, but just showed me how 'freak' things can happen which seem a complete impossibility, both logistically and statistically, etc... one time I was driving and something fell out of my hand.. while continuing to drive I glanced around for where it had fallen to, to see if I could grab it from the floor or wherever.. couldn't see it.. thought I had better stop to find it before I forgot about it, pulled over, stopped the vehicle, got out and searched everywhere.. no sign.. anywhere.. and then suddenly I noticed smoke coming out of my steering wheel.. from inside.. no idea how that could be possible.. so I looked closer and there was this tiny hole on each side where my blinker thingies come out of the steering wheel cylinder, one side for wipers, one side for lights, turny signals.. whatever.. the tiniest holes, square holes, just above (or below, I forget) where the thingies come out, enough to allow them to move up and down I suppose(?).. my missing item had somehow flown out of my hand and went just perfectly and miraculously into one of those tiny holes at just the perfect angle with just the perfect amount of force to fly it inside.. I definitely couldn't have done that on purpose if I'd tried, and I don't think I could have even fit the item into the hole even by attempting to just place it there on purpose, it was so bizarre. I was afraid I was going to have an electrical fire inside there and that my vehicle's electrical stuff would be fried, whatever is in there. I was freaked, worrying that not only could my electrics become fried but a fire could potentially start, and so I grabbed my tea and tried to pour some of it into each hole and I couldn't even get *that* to go in, due to the angle.. and so I ended up just sprinkling the tea.. until the smoking stopped. Nothing further ever came of it in regard to damage, and now it is just my dirty little secret, probably never to be found, since I don't foresee a time when anyone would ever have occasion to open up my steering column.

Just saying that seemingly impossible things *can* happen, but just as it seems impossible that WT could have met a fate inside some kind of opening, it seems just as impossible that someone would happen upon or plan these circumstances in this unlikely place when he is not even expected to have been there at the time and have the stroke of luck that the child is unmonitored in a desirable location and that nobody saw or heard a thing and nothing has been found for two years since. If one situation can be considered the most likely event to have occurred, even with its unlikelihood, then shouldn't every situation be considered as at least a possibility, at least until there is proof of what did occur?

 

[deugirtni]

No, I'm not convinced that a local isn't involved either SA. In fact I'm convinced that is the case. I just feel sorry for all of the other residents in Benaroon Drive who had nothing to do with William's disappearance and are now being scrutinised to the point where it is suggested that a spreadsheet be compiled on them. I can imagine how I would feel if I was one of those totally innocent residents.

I also feel so sorry for all of the residents in that tiny subdivision of 21 homes who had nothing to do with this situation, and not only them, but the entire small town, since it has deeply affected all of them and a pall is cast over this community until this mystery is solved. As much as none of the residents think or want to believe that it could have been at the hands of a 'local', I'll bet everyone looks at everyone a little bit differently now, and nothing can be trusted. Kids can't walk to school or play in their yards without being under a watchful eye. Normally the family also has suspicion cast upon them until such time as such an event is solved, which is also horrible in such cases. And all of those thousands of tips police have received, all of those people who have been checked on, who are innocent. It is just horrible to imagine how this would have been for everyone to experience. And so it is with most cases where a child suddenly and mysteriously disappears. Thousands of people probably still think about what could have happened in this strange mystery, and here we are with our small handful on WS trying to toss around possibilities. I'm sure nothing we think of is unique, and hasn't already been considered, but try we still do. Sure would be great to get answers SOON!

 

[koios]

Even people who are said to have been travelling in/out of the street right around the critical time don't mention noticing even a vehicle passing in the same/opposite direction, parked on the side of the road, or sitting in a vehicle lurking, etc. It seems like it is prudent to keep an open mind to any possibilities until such time as WT is found in one way or another. moo

I agree an open mind is prudent. The last sighting of WT is that he went around this corner of the house (arrow added to an image from a 60minutes video).
Where he went after that remains an open question. His projected route from there straight downhill to the roadside (as discussed by Mr Jubelin in 60minutes) may be a very intelligent estimate based on probable behaviour, but it is not proven, as there were no witnesses who saw whether or not he went down there.

 

[WhiteLion^^]

And all of the residents in Benaroon Drive, who haven't been named as POI's, can breathe easy and won't end up on a spreadsheet.

Agreed!

 

[Bohemian]

And all of the residents in Benaroon Drive, who haven't been named as POI's, can breathe easy and won't end up on a spreadsheet.

No, I'm not convinced that a local isn't involved either SA. In fact I'm convinced that is the case. I just feel sorry for all of the other residents in Benaroon Drive who had nothing to do with William's disappearance and are now being scrutinised to the point where it is suggested that a spreadsheet be compiled on them. I can imagine how I would feel if I was one of those totally innocent residents.

The Gantt chart White Lion suggested was using house numbers (that many WSers on William's threads have discovered) and reported times of arrival and departure from MSM, which have already been discussed here. The point was to develop a graphical representation of the timeline, not name residents as, or infer that they were, POIs in William's disappearance.

The chart could not, of course, include any information on #35 whose movements have not been reported on, but who have been subject to others' personal opinions and, despite this fact, have been similarly discussed on William's threads.

#35 is not the only residence where we have such a dearth of information, therefore, the idea of a Gantt chart haa subsequently been discarded as it would have been a case of GIGO.

 

[deugirtni]

Thank you - I haven't read it yet but there is a reason that SA Blogspot isn't allowed on this site, hence the original link was blanked out ******. It's not official.

SA Blog (and any other blog) isn't allowed here, but we were talking about a simple transcription of a publicly broadcast interview. In the event (I haven't checked it myself yet for accuracy) that it is accurate, it is time-saving to have a transcribed account of what was said by the FPs during the various interviews, no matter who it happens to have been transcribed by, but that is just my opinion.

 

[bearbear]

nobody in the street seeing anything really points to it happening on the property, under cover with discreet quiet access in and out, family and misadvedture have been ruled out so the person seeing hearing watching was right there

 

[WhiteLion^^]

The Gantt chart White Lion suggested was using house numbers (that many WSers on William's threads have discovered) and reported times of arrival and departure from MSM, which have already been discussed here. The point was to develop a graphical representation of the timeline, not name residents as, or infer that they were, POIs in William's disappearance.

The chart could not, of course, include any information on #35 whose movements have not been reported on, but who have been subject to others' personal opinions and, despite this fact, have been similarly discussed on William's threads.

#35 is not the only residence where we have such a dearth of information, therefore, the idea of a Gantt chart haa subsequently been discarded as it would have been a case of GIGO.

And I certainly didn't suggest tracking residents but if someone wanted to, I suggested a Gantt is a way to do it. I don't think it's a good use of time and don't see the value in doing it, but as you say, if the info has already been sourced then it is just a way to present it. You can bet LE would have done it early on.

 

[JLZ]

When William was playing by the celery tree, I imagine his attention was focussed on his mother and the tree he was being encouraged to climb. The back of the house looks very different to the front. If William ran around the verandah and back towards where he was before, I can see him suddenly finding himself "lost", notwithstanding that the house is clearly in view. He might then have wandered some way cross-country, before being picked up near a road, not necessarily Benaroon Drive.

 

[deugirtni]

And I certainly didn't suggest tracking residents but if someone wanted to, I suggested a Gantt is a way to do it. I don't think it's a good use of time and don't see the value in doing it, but as you say, if the info has already been sourced then it is just a way to present it. You can bet LE would have done it early on.

Yes I don't believe the intent was ever to track residents, but more to see first, how many residents we know of who were apparently at home at that fateful time, and then secondly, what time slots had been accounted for, for people being out on the street.. and from there.. what times are not accounted for.. as far as inactivity and absence of neighbours out and about.. not as far as 'what were the neighbours doing, and when'. The one man stated to MSM that his wife had left the neighbourhood '1 minute before', but his time was 28 or 26 minutes to eleven, which is actually later than when he is said to be missing.. but if that time is accurate, then why didn't his wife notice the hubbub of people already searching, even if only the FM by that time.. why was nothing heard? And even amongst the two FPs themselves during one of their interviews, when FD suggests WT was last seen at 10;15, and then FM says, 'noooo'... it just seems that the timing is not a definite thing here.

 

[Bohemian]

And I certainly didn't suggest tracking residents but if someone wanted to, I suggested a Gantt is a way to do it. I don't think it's a good use of time and don't see the value in doing it, but as you say, if the info has already been sourced then it is just a way to present it. You can bet LE would have done it early on.

Exactly. I fully understand your suggestion and intention. It was not to track residents, but to have a single graphical representation of the timeline surrounding William's disappearance.

I agree that investigators would already have had one prepared and I'm sure their data was as accurate and complete as possible. Unlike ours.

 

[koios]

I think the exact minutes elapsed from WT being last seen to him being noticed missing has not been stated by LE, but whether it is 10 minutes or 1 minute, it is a very short time, which should make the case easier to solve. Compare with the C Lawrence case where the elapsed time is many hours, which makes it harder to solve.

 

[koios]

MOO but I think in the press report of someone going out at "28 or 26 minutes to eleven" the going out could be an MSM error and probably refers to someone arriving home at that time probably the lady arriving home at about 10.30 and unloading shopping