Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #25

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  • #381
Frogwell,

The weird thing is, the sniffer dog scent should exist in the backyard, so I'm wondering how distorted media reporting is? Im sure I read scent stopped at the backyard?

To add further, the surrounding terrain was full of sharp native flora that in some cases ripped searchers clothing. That is not conducive to a child moving fast if they ventured into surrounding bush. The poor fella would be scratched to buggery venturing in any of the surrounding native vegetation.

Agree, the scent should be found on the property. The initial reports about scent that came out during the search, appeared to rule it out completely. I can understand Fehon calling that, "astonishing" and would back up his statement that they just have no starting point but the house and no leads. If dogs were called in on the 1st or 2nd day and there was a trail of WT's scent that ended at the boarder of the property, and subsequently vanished, then there is a lead. That he left the property via a road and with other human intervention. I know concurrent investigations began very early on in the piece. MOO
 
  • #382
Yes...I have often wondered....did Jubelin get the job BECAUSE of BS? Because someone said 'get Gary on this job, he knows this guy'. I get that he was high profile with missing kids due to Bowraville. it makes more sense than him being assigned to the job and then suddenly going 'hey I know this guy'.....although of course that could be another example of the unluckiest washing machine repair man in the world.

Police aren't 'given a job' simply because they may have dealt with a person in the past. Gary Jubelin took over as head of NSW Homicide following the retirement of the former head, Detective Inspector Hans Rupp. This has been discussed at length in previous threads.


Top investigator appointed in search for William Tyrrell DAN PROUDMAN
29 Jan 2015, 9:45 p.m.

THE homicide squad took over the investigation into the disappearance of William Tyrrell shortly after he went missing but are still not completely convinced the three-year-old is dead.The Newcastle Herald can also reveal one of the state’s most respected homicide investigators, Detective Inspector Gary Jubelin, has taken over the lead role in the investigation just days after police searched two properties belonging to a local handyman.Detective Inspector Jubelin, who has locked up some of the worst criminals in the state and was portrayed in an Underbelly series for his conviction of Anthony ‘‘Rooster’’ Perish, will now be the officer in charge following the retirement of Detective Inspector Hans Rupp.

BBM.
 
  • #383
I have always found this a bit confusing. I would not describe a child being fostered as having a complicated family history. I think there must be more to it.

I really think it is just the wording chosen to get around the legal barriers to identifying him as a child in care.
 
  • #384
Police aren't 'given a job' simply because they may have dealt with a person in the past. Gary Jubelin took over as head of NSW Homicide following the retirement of the former head, Detective Inspector Hans Rupp. This has been discussed at length in previous threads.


Top investigator appointed in search for William Tyrrell DAN PROUDMAN
29 Jan 2015, 9:45 p.m.

THE homicide squad took over the investigation into the disappearance of William Tyrrell shortly after he went missing but are still not completely convinced the three-year-old is dead.The Newcastle Herald can also reveal one of the state’s most respected homicide investigators, Detective Inspector Gary Jubelin, has taken over the lead role in the investigation just days after police searched two properties belonging to a local handyman.Detective Inspector Jubelin, who has locked up some of the worst criminals in the state and was portrayed in an Underbelly series for his conviction of Anthony ‘‘Rooster’’ Perish, will now be the officer in charge following the retirement of Detective Inspector Hans Rupp.

BBM.

DS Michael Willing is the head of the NSW Homicide Squad:

More cops for William Tyrrell case
dailytelegraph.com.au‎
20 Feb 2016
(paywalled)

'NSW Homicide Squad Commander Michael Willing [...]'

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...igAMAA&usg=AFQjCNFOLV0I2jBkI-61J1r2ekkdbyQXCw

He received an APM in June 2016:

Queen's Birthday Honours 2016: Homicide boss Mick Willing among NSW Police recipients of Australian Police Medal
The Sydney Morning Herald
Nick Ralston
June 13 2016

'Detective Superintendent Michael Willing is the longest-serving boss of the NSW Police Force's homicide quad.'

'Superintendent Willing walked into the Goulburn police academy in 1990 and three years later he was working criminal investigations a field where he has now spent the majority of his distinguished career.

Having risen through the ranks serving in his home town of Dubbo and on the far south coast, Superintendent Willing took charge of the homicide squad in 2011.'

'Since then he's overseen countless high-profile arrests by his squad including the capture of double murderer and bush fugitive Malcolm Naden and the alleged Family Court bomber Leonard John Warwick – an investigation that dates back to the 1980s.

His detectives are seen as the leaders in homicide investigation in Australasia, with the highest case completion rate of any homicide squad in Australia.'

'"Everyone here is absolutely dedicated to speaking for those who can no longer speak," Superintendent Willing previously told Fairfax Media of the homicide squad. "They honestly feel there is no greater privilege than to investigate the death of someone else because they can't talk for themselves."'

http://www.smh.com.au/national/quee...-australian-police-medal-20160610-gpgona.html
 
  • #385
DS Michael Willing is the head of the NSW Homicide Squad:

More cops for William Tyrrell case
dailytelegraph.com.au‎
20 Feb 2016
(paywalled)

'NSW Homicide Squad Commander Michael Willing [...]'

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...igAMAA&usg=AFQjCNFOLV0I2jBkI-61J1r2ekkdbyQXCw

He received an APM in June 2016:

Queen's Birthday Honours 2016: Homicide boss Mick Willing among NSW Police recipients of Australian Police Medal
The Sydney Morning Herald
Nick Ralston
June 13 2016

'Detective Superintendent Michael Willing is the longest-serving boss of the NSW Police Force's homicide quad.'

'Superintendent Willing walked into the Goulburn police academy in 1990 and three years later he was working criminal investigations a field where he has now spent the majority of his distinguished career.

Having risen through the ranks serving in his home town of Dubbo and on the far south coast, Superintendent Willing took charge of the homicide squad in 2011.'

'Since then he's overseen countless high-profile arrests by his squad including the capture of double murderer and bush fugitive Malcolm Naden and the alleged Family Court bomber Leonard John Warwick – an investigation that dates back to the 1980s.

His detectives are seen as the leaders in homicide investigation in Australasia, with the highest case completion rate of any homicide squad in Australia.'

'"Everyone here is absolutely dedicated to speaking for those who can no longer speak," Superintendent Willing previously told Fairfax Media of the homicide squad. "They honestly feel there is no greater privilege than to investigate the death of someone else because they can't talk for themselves."'

http://www.smh.com.au/national/quee...-australian-police-medal-20160610-gpgona.html


The point I was making is that Gary Jubelin wasn't specifically assigned to William's case because BS is a POI.(modsnip)
 
  • #386
<modsnip>

Just wondering whether people have been saying foster, when he may have been adopted sometime ago.? Anyone confirm a date? At 38.5 months of age, there appears a possibility

I really think it is just the wording chosen to get around the legal barriers to identifying him as a child in care.
 
  • #387
<modsnip>

Just wondering whether people have been saying foster, when he may have been adopted sometime ago.? Anyone confirm a date? At 38.5 months of age, there appears a possibility

They've said they are legally prevented which says to me he was still in care - if he was adopted he is in the same legal position as kids with their bio parents and I don't think they'd have had to have all this secrecy.
 
  • #388
Im going to speculate that BS was going to use the shed for reconditioning whitegoods and other activities (similar activities to past activities), and with a night to sleep on it, I think BS may have paid for the shed project himself. But this is still the result of a great relationship with your landlord. Not everyone wants a shed in their rental backyard.

Sheds are quite expensive to build ($20,000 to $30,000?) and if I was a landlord and my tenant wanted to build a shed on the block and pay for it - I'd say go for it. It adds to the resell value and future rental appeal.

The shed could just be a storage area for the landlord's personal use. Have rented a place where the landlord decided to move states, and they were storing their belongings in the shed in our rental.

How many of you have a burn off patch in your backyard? What do you use it for?

Large blocks - very common for people to have a burn off patch in the yard. Everyone seems to burn off garden waste, or use it for having campfires (usually when they have parties). Or if you live where I am, and burning off is banned unless you have a permit - we toast marshmallows so that it is classified as a 'camp fire' - which are allowed without a permit.
Where I am, September is last chance of being able to burn off before fire restrictions are in place for the summer.
 
  • #389
They've said they are legally prevented which says to me he was still in care - if he was adopted he is in the same legal position as kids with their bio parents and I don't think they'd have had to have all this secrecy.

In the Triple 0 call - FM used the name 'Tyrrell'. If he had been adopted, they'd have used their surname, wouldn't they?

Some of the kids I know who are in long term foster care - they use the foster family's surname for school.
 
  • #390
Good on you Bo......Great read.....MOO.....:lookingitup:
DS Michael Willing is the head of the NSW Homicide Squad:

More cops for William Tyrrell case
dailytelegraph.com.au&#8206;
20 Feb 2016
(paywalled)

'NSW Homicide Squad Commander Michael Willing [...]'

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...igAMAA&usg=AFQjCNFOLV0I2jBkI-61J1r2ekkdbyQXCw

He received an APM in June 2016:

Queen's Birthday Honours 2016: Homicide boss Mick Willing among NSW Police recipients of Australian Police Medal
The Sydney Morning Herald
Nick Ralston
June 13 2016

'Detective Superintendent Michael Willing is the longest-serving boss of the NSW Police Force's homicide quad.'

'Superintendent Willing walked into the Goulburn police academy in 1990 and three years later he was working criminal investigations a field where he has now spent the majority of his distinguished career.

Having risen through the ranks serving in his home town of Dubbo and on the far south coast, Superintendent Willing took charge of the homicide squad in 2011.'

'Since then he's overseen countless high-profile arrests by his squad including the capture of double murderer and bush fugitive Malcolm Naden and the alleged Family Court bomber Leonard John Warwick &#8211; an investigation that dates back to the 1980s.

His detectives are seen as the leaders in homicide investigation in Australasia, with the highest case completion rate of any homicide squad in Australia.'

'"Everyone here is absolutely dedicated to speaking for those who can no longer speak," Superintendent Willing previously told Fairfax Media of the homicide squad. "They honestly feel there is no greater privilege than to investigate the death of someone else because they can't talk for themselves."'

http://www.smh.com.au/national/quee...-australian-police-medal-20160610-gpgona.html
 
  • #391
Sheds are quite expensive to build ($20,000 to $30,000?) and if I was a landlord and my tenant wanted to build a shed on the block and pay for it - I'd say go for it. It adds to the resell value and future rental appeal.

The shed could just be a storage area for the landlord's personal use. Have rented a place where the landlord decided to move states, and they were storing their belongings in the shed in our rental.

.

RSBM - The DA application, lodged on 24/07/14 was for: Additions to Dwelling and Ancillary Building - Shed

The expected cost quoted on the DA is $66,000

DA approved on 26/09/14 by Port Macquarie-Hastings Council.

The property owners name is on the application.

I doubt very much that BS was paying for the 'Shed'.

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  • #392
Det Jubelin's team are extremely proficient. I think they will have checked out all the possible abduction scenarios to a level a thousand times beyond our capabilities.
I suggest that if no identification of an abductor is made soon, there is a clear need to go back completely to square one.
Square one is the last moment WT was seen, going out of sight of the deck, around a corner of the house.
And to examine all the possibilities of what might have happened to him, discarding all the assumptions that have been made.
That includes discarding the assumption that he was abducted, and instead to look at all possibilities.
 
  • #393
A child with a complicated family history has exactly the same chance of an undiscovered accidental mishap as a child with a boring normal family history.
A child,whose FGM was having an appliance repaired has exactly the same chance of an undiscovered accidental mishap as a child whose FGM wasn't having an appliance repaired.
I suggest that the family history and the repair are completely irrelevant.
 
  • #394
In the Triple 0 call - FM used the name 'Tyrrell'. If he had been adopted, they'd have used their surname, wouldn't they?

Some of the kids I know who are in long term foster care - they use the foster family's surname for school.
Are you sure about that ? I don't recall ff using that name. Will have to go back and watch interview to check.
 
  • #395
Are you sure about that ? I don't recall ff using that name. Will have to go back and watch interview to check.
Sorry you are correct, I hadn't heard her use the surname until I re watched 000 call just now. Thanks for bringing this up.
 
  • #396
once det jubelin took over the case he made sure everything had been investigated properly by the previous team....

These same issues *trouble veteran homicide detective Gary Jubelin, who took over this case in early February after the retirement of a colleague. Jubelin&#8217;s first task was a comprehensive review of the search. &#8220;Once I was assured that it was a thorough and professional search then, OK, if he&#8217;s not lost, he&#8217;s been snatched.&#8221; After meticulously investigating William&#8217;s immediate and wider family the detectives have ruled them out. They&#8217;ve come to the conclusion he was snatched by a stranger; one terrifyingly likely motive is sexual gratification. They are hunting for a paedophile.
https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=804822206268634&id=114990695251792&substory_index=0

he has also mentioned later on in another statement that they were starting again at ground zero not ruling anyone or anything out
 
  • #397
once det jubelin took over the case he made sure everything had been investigated properly by the previous team....

These same issues *trouble veteran homicide detective Gary Jubelin, who took over this case in early February after the retirement of a colleague. Jubelin&#8217;s first task was a comprehensive review of the search. &#8220;Once I was assured that it was a thorough and professional search then, OK, if he&#8217;s not lost, he&#8217;s been snatched.&#8221; After meticulously investigating William&#8217;s immediate and wider family the detectives have ruled them out. They&#8217;ve come to the conclusion he was snatched by a stranger; one terrifyingly likely motive is sexual gratification. They are hunting for a paedophile.
https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=804822206268634&id=114990695251792&substory_index=0

he has also mentioned later on in another statement that they were starting again at ground zero not ruling anyone or anything out
You present a good case bearbear, however my definition on going back to square one is literal, that is, more extreme. In a video, I saw Det Jubelin's predecessor's predecessor deciding it was an abduction (the words were different but that is what was meant I think) at the moment of stepping out of the car, before even examining the property where it happened.
 
  • #398
You present a good case bearbear, however my definition on going back to square one is literal, that is, more extreme. In a video, I saw Det Jubelin's predecessor's predecessor deciding it was an abduction (the words were different but that is what was meant I think) at the moment of stepping out of the car, before even examining the property where it happened.

I understand your point and I can't help but feel some assumption has been made right from the beginning that has possibly askewed this investigation, like a detective's experience or intuition in such a case, however, I would hope that any facts, evidence that came to light during the investigation would outweigh any such thing.

How could toddler William Tyrrell simply vanish into thin air?

At 11.06am the first police car arrives; word has spread throughout the township&#8217;s 800 or so residents that a little boy is lost and dozens of locals are out looking. A command post is *established outside the house on Benaroon Drive. At 11.12am the Dog Unit is dispatched. The SES is informed at 11.44am. At 12.52pm a police helicopter takes to the sky. By mid-*afternoon hundreds of people are searching for a boy who has seemingly vanished into the bush.

At 2.35pm detectives are dispatched from Port Macquarie and begin taking statements. One of them speaks to a colleague, Detective Senior Constable Vanessa Partridge, back at Port Macquarie late that afternoon; they are worried something more sinister may have taken place. Partridge arrives very early the next day, and already there are people out on *horseback, on bicycle, on foot, searching for *William. His dad is out there with them, and will be for days, thinking, &#8220;Surely if he is out here in the bush he&#8217;ll be found?&#8221;

Arriving at the house on Benaroon Drive, *Partridge is thinking, &#8220;Something just doesn&#8217;t feel right about this whole thing.&#8221;


Maybe you are referring to Detective Senior Constable, Vanessa Partridge's comment upon arriving at the house on day 2? I think it would be typical to begin a search of the surrounding area if a toddler went missing. I also think her feeling would be based upon what the FM's feelings shortly after his disappearance, WT's family history/status, any statements, observations from her colleagues from the afternoon before that stood out to them (obviously, besides not finding William, something made them concerned about something more sinister being a possibility) , results from the sniffer dogs. I don't necessarily think her statement is another way of saying that she thinks WT was abducted. Since she works on Strikeforce Rosann, I wonder if she still feels the same way as when she 1st arrived at Benaroon Dr. She was willing to share how she felt about her initial contact with the case, 1 year later on in the 60 minutes interview without saying anything conclusive about what she thinks has happened. I know that there is a part of me that still can't shake that feeling, "something just doesn't feel right about this whole thing." MOO
 
  • #399
I understand your point and I can't help but feel some assumption has been made right from the beginning that has possibly askewed this investigation, like a detective's experience or intuition in such a case, however, I would hope that any facts, evidence that came to light during the investigation would outweigh any such thing.

How could toddler William Tyrrell simply vanish into thin air?

At 11.06am the first police car arrives; word has spread throughout the township&#8217;s 800 or so residents that a little boy is lost and dozens of locals are out looking. A command post is *established outside the house on Benaroon Drive. At 11.12am the Dog Unit is dispatched. The SES is informed at 11.44am. At 12.52pm a police helicopter takes to the sky. By mid-*afternoon hundreds of people are searching for a boy who has seemingly vanished into the bush.

At 2.35pm detectives are dispatched from Port Macquarie and begin taking statements. One of them speaks to a colleague, Detective Senior Constable Vanessa Partridge, back at Port Macquarie late that afternoon; they are worried something more sinister may have taken place. Partridge arrives very early the next day, and already there are people out on *horseback, on bicycle, on foot, searching for *William. His dad is out there with them, and will be for days, thinking, &#8220;Surely if he is out here in the bush he&#8217;ll be found?&#8221;

Arriving at the house on Benaroon Drive, *Partridge is thinking, &#8220;Something just doesn&#8217;t feel right about this whole thing.&#8221;


Maybe you are referring to Detective Senior Constable, Vanessa Partridge's comment upon arriving at the house on day 2? I think it would be typical to begin a search of the surrounding area if a toddler went missing. I also think her feeling would be based upon what the FM's feelings shortly after his disappearance, WT's family history/status, any statements, observations from her colleagues from the afternoon before that stood out to them (obviously, besides not finding William, something made them concerned about something more sinister being a possibility) , results from the sniffer dogs. I don't necessarily think her statement is another way of saying that she thinks WT was abducted. Since she works on Strikeforce Rosann, I wonder if she still feels the same way as when she 1st arrived at Benaroon Dr. She was willing to share how she felt about her initial contact with the case, 1 year later on in the 60 minutes interview without saying anything conclusive about what she thinks has happened. I know that there is a part of me that still can't shake that feeling, "something just doesn't feel right about this whole thing." MOO
Yes her assumption was made on stepping out of car before even seeing the deck he was playing on or the grass area he was seen going to.
It is a common assumption "other people have already had a look therefore he cannot possibly be there " which has been made in many cases, sometimes correctly, sometimes incorrectly.
Anyway, the investigation since then seems to have deduced that abduction is exclusively the only possible solution.
 
  • #400
the families were cleared very quickly, which i found a little unusual, they are usually the first to be suspected, so wondering what evidence there was to immediately clear them all?
something must have been very clear to point to abduction that early on?
police seem to have an inbuilt gut instinct so usually have a situation sussed from the first few minutes, they know whos lying and see through stories, even though they pretend not to,
i also cant shake the feeling something doesnt fit, i guess it will all fall into place once/if william is found,
and investigators will know so so much more and will have a pretty good picture,
we only have little snippets compared to them
 
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