Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #33

[Bohemian]

It’s alarming how many people could have potentially seen William after his Abduction & not recognized him. If he is alive, & being held somewhere, traded off for whatever reason, it is possible & not unheard of for other people to see the victim & not recognize them, & equally as possible that the victim doesn’t speak up, if William even still remembers that he is William & out of place with his new family.
I was speaking with a friend recently about children being the subject of abuse & she brought up William, but she could not recall his name or any details surrounding his case, she wasn’t even aware of his current status, whether he had been recovered or not, & more than likely wouldn’t recognize a widely seen photo of the boy unless it was the Spider-Man photo, & that friend is living in Sydney, where I think William would have been publicized the most.


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It is alarming. Hopefully William would remember his name if he saw one of his parents. Unfortunately I kind of think, by now only those people familiar with William would recognise him. I reckon I’d have Buckley’s unless I could compare two photos. Maybe even then I’d have trouble. I don’t know about other people as I haven’t discussed WS or William’s case with them for a long time.

There are biometric measurements and inherited family traits such as the shape and attachment of the ears that help with identification but who is going to be staring at a child for that long whilst comparing them to an age-progressed image? I know I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that and, I suspect, neither would their legitimate parents feel comfortable with that if the child wasn’t William.
__________

ETA. For example, my heart skipped a beat when I saw this thread on WS this morning:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...oy-5-7-years-old-possibly-missing-13-Apr-2018

But the composite of the boy and William’s age-progressed image look nothing alike.

 

[SouthAussie]

https://mensshed.org/profile/AMSA100644/

Did we explore the surrounding (ie members etc.) of this enough? After all, located in Batar Creek Road which was said to have been possibly the escape route of the abductors of little WT. AND a location which was searched for by a well-dressed man on the day WT vanished:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-nearby-forest-hope-finding-alive-fades.html

In one of the articles I was re-looking at today, I noticed the bottle shop owner had made comment about this man.
If he was looking for Batar Creek Road, one would presume he did not use GPS services on his phone ... no Google Maps, no street directory.

(I never knew a man to ask for directions! Don't they just drive around until they are lost?? I thought that was man-law. :hilarious: hahaha )


Kendall Cellars owner Rheannon Chapman ......

Chapman said she has heard about the man who had walked into one of the businesses in town and asked for directions to near where William went missing. She believes the story is true.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...ts-dark-shadow-over-town-20141101-11fbdi.html

 

[JLZ]

In one of the articles I was re-looking at today, I noticed the bottle shop owner had made comment about this man.
If he was looking for Batar Creek Road, one would presume he did not use GPS services on his phone ... no Google Maps, no street directory.
(I never knew a man to ask for directions! Don't they just drive around and around until they are lost?? :hilarious: hahaha )


Kendall Cellars owner Rheannon Chapman ......

Chapman said she has heard about the man who had walked into one of the businesses in town and asked for directions to near where William went missing. She believes the story is true.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...ts-dark-shadow-over-town-20141101-11fbdi.html

Heard about him. Did we ever get the first-hand account from the person who saw the well-dressed man? Or was it mentioned by police? It sounds like it might be an unfounded rumour--like with the woman who went overboard from a cruise ship recently, people on the ship were saying it was a man, it was a woman, it was a little girl, she was vomiting and the ship lurched and she fell . . . apparently it was a suicide (though with the husband trying to grab her back, I hope the CCTV is unambiguous).

 

[SouthAussie]

Heard about him. Did we ever get the first-hand account from the person who saw the well-dressed man? Or was it mentioned by police? It sounds like it might be an unfounded rumour--like with the woman who went overboard from a cruise ship recently, people on the ship were saying it was a man, it was a woman, it was a little girl, she was vomiting and the ship lurched and she fell . . . apparently it was a suicide (though with the husband trying to grab her back, I hope the CCTV is unambiguous).

Not only that ... but also Batar Creek Road is a very long and winding road, stretches out for kilometres. It starts at Albert Street in Kendall, goes through Batar Creek, and ends on the far side of Middle Brother Forest, from what I can tell on Google Maps.

Lots of addresses on that road. From single digit addresses to triple digit addresses. Ranging from addresses in Kendall to addresses in Batar Creek.

And it is not Benaroon Drive that a man may have been looking for, it was Batar Creek Road. There are quite a few properties for sale on that road (at this time, and maybe then, too) and quite a few people living on the road. Seems if the rumours are true, the man could have been looking for the road for any number of reasons.

.

 

[Violet77]

It is alarming. Hopefully William would remember his name if he saw one of his parents. Unfortunately I kind of think, by now only those people familiar with William would recognise him. I reckon I’d have Buckley’s unless I could compare two photos. Maybe even then I’d have trouble. I don’t know about other people as I haven’t discussed WS or William’s case with them for a long time.

There are biometric measurements and inherited family traits such as the shape and attachment of the ears that help with identification but who is going to be staring at a child for that long whilst comparing them to an age-progressed image? I know I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing that and, I suspect, neither would their legitimate parents feel comfortable with that if the child wasn’t William.
__________

ETA. For example, my heart skipped a beat when I saw this thread on WS this morning:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...oy-5-7-years-old-possibly-missing-13-Apr-2018

But the composite of the boy and William’s age-progressed image look nothing alike.

I agree, it would be incredibly hard to recognize him now.
The young boy who found himself separated from his family over the Easter weekend looked a lot like William in one of his photos, let’s hope one day his face can be associated with a found safe article, instead of forever missing.


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[Warshawski]

BBM--I think you are thinking of PB who was filmed talking to reporters about his son's car, silver or grey or grey-green. I thought he was trying to distract away from talk about the other car, and playing a game with the reporters, as if to say, if you want to chase a wild goose, try this one instead. And everyone did.

Thanks TLZ - yes, I remember now, it was PB.

there's another dirtbag that I'd like to get a dose of Truth Serum into ! .... Maybe we could throw them all a party. Invite BS (ex-wife & children); MS, her Sons & over 18 years grandchildren; Col & (is it now ex-wife); AJ ( his ex-wife) & niece; PB & wife; KL & liveIn guest / partner; NC, her Sons & (is it now ex-) partner; K E-T; her seemingly most absent & silent mother / William's maternal bio-grandmother; Aunt KT who was so thrilled to be an aunt - and serve them truth serum shooters!

all just my own frustrated musings, and suggestions, tongue in cheek!

I just can't believe how a little boy can just seemingly float off & disappear into thin air in the space of minutes, without anyone hearing or seeing anything.

i do have a personal theory that he may have been playing on his own for perhaps 20 minutes or so, if we believe that FM took sister to the toilet. FM may have also taken the opportunity to get her out if her PJs as I think there was comment that she was in them in pictures of her colouring in the background.
And there was talk of a cup of tea being made - again just IMO, but I wonder if perhaps FGM went in to make that cuppa. (she may not have given any thought to not leaving William out in the yard unattended, and to be honest why should she. He should have been safe to play in the house yard)

thanks for bearing with me me as I go on with my journey, wondering & tossing things around.

so perhaps FM came out and said 'where's William' and maybe FGM said something like ' oh, he was here a minute ago when I went & grabbed a cuppa'

and maybe this is the moment when everything stood still for FM - because she knew there was a potential for something to happen with these children, she was on alert

again, as I shrug my shoulders, just my own thoughts ..

 

[sosocurious]

Thanks TLZ - yes, I remember now, it was PB.

there's another dirtbag that I'd like to get a dose of Truth Serum into ! .... Maybe we could throw them all a party. Invite BS (ex-wife & children); MS, her Sons & over 18 years grandchildren; Col & (is it now ex-wife); AJ ( his ex-wife) & niece; PB & wife; KL & liveIn guest / partner; NC, her Sons & (is it now ex-) partner; K E-T; her seemingly most absent & silent mother / William's maternal bio-grandmother; Aunt KT who was so thrilled to be an aunt - and serve them truth serum shooters!

all just my own frustrated musings, and suggestions, tongue in cheek!

I just can't believe how a little boy can just seemingly float off & disappear into thin air in the space of minutes, without anyone hearing or seeing anything.

i do have a personal theory that he may have been playing on his own for perhaps 20 minutes or so, if we believe that FM took sister to the toilet. FM may have also taken the opportunity to get her out if her PJs as I think there was comment that she was in them in pictures of her colouring in the background.
And there was talk of a cup of tea being made - again just IMO, but I wonder if perhaps FGM went in to make that cuppa. (she may not have given any thought to not leaving William out in the yard unattended, and to be honest why should she. He should have been safe to play in the house yard)

thanks for bearing with me me as I go on with my journey, wondering & tossing things around.

so perhaps FM came out and said 'where's William' and maybe FGM said something like ' oh, he was here a minute ago when I went & grabbed a cuppa'

and maybe this is the moment when everything stood still for FM - because she knew there was a potential for something to happen with these children, she was on alert

again, as I shrug my shoulders, just my own thoughts ..

Oh what a party that would be...

 

[Warshawski]

.... Kendall Cellars owner Rheannon Chapman says ....
"I think the police side of things, the suspicion, was there straight away," she says.
"Just little things like looking at our CCTV. We were told not to delete anything and that was the next day.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...ts-dark-shadow-over-town-20141101-11fbdi.html


And wasn't it the next day that the foster mum told the police about the cars on the street? Or perhaps even late on the night that William disappeared?

i think it may have been that night SA. Didn't she go to airport to pick up family member that night ( perhaps someone flew in for support). I'm guessing they would have been going over & over every detail of the morning's events.

Whats ever happened re the reports of the crying child in the caravan, although the park owner said there were no children there! Surely everyone there has been investigated ...

 

[JLZ]

Not only that ... but also Batar Creek Road is a very long and winding road, stretches out for kilometres. It starts at Albert Street in Kendall, goes through Batar Creek, and ends on the far side of Middle Brother Forest, from what I can tell on Google Maps.

Lots of addresses on that road. From single digit addresses to triple digit addresses. Ranging from addresses in Kendall to addresses in Batar Creek.

And it is not Benaroon Drive that a man may have been looking for, it was Batar Creek Road. There are quite a few properties for sale on that road (at this time, and maybe then, too) and quite a few people living on the road. Seems if the rumours are true, the man could have been looking for the road for any number of reasons.

.

It's hard to believe an abductor or co-abductor would head out unprepared to find his way or signpost himself by asking for directions. However, it would at least be mitigating the damage to ask for Batar Creek Road rather than Benaroon Drive. The only way I can see him asking for directions is if he had a definite appointment to meet somebody to pick up William, and it would be leaving that person in the lurch, or leaving William to found and tell the story, if he didn't find the hand-over location. Even so, I think in his place I would have asked to borrow a street directory, or browsed one on sale in a shop, rather than name where I was going.

 

[Whàngarei]

Thanks TLZ - yes, I remember now, it was PB.

there's another dirtbag that I'd like to get a dose of Truth Serum into ! .... Maybe we could throw them all a party. Invite BS (ex-wife & children); MS, her Sons & over 18 years grandchildren; Col & (is it now ex-wife); AJ ( his ex-wife) & niece; PB & wife; KL & liveIn guest / partner; NC, her Sons & (is it now ex-) partner; K E-T; her seemingly most absent & silent mother / William's maternal bio-grandmother; Aunt KT who was so thrilled to be an aunt - and serve them truth serum shooters!

all just my own frustrated musings, and suggestions, tongue in cheek!

I just can't believe how a little boy can just seemingly float off & disappear into thin air in the space of minutes, without anyone hearing or seeing anything.

i do have a personal theory that he may have been playing on his own for perhaps 20 minutes or so, if we believe that FM took sister to the toilet. FM may have also taken the opportunity to get her out if her PJs as I think there was comment that she was in them in pictures of her colouring in the background.
And there was talk of a cup of tea being made - again just IMO, but I wonder if perhaps FGM went in to make that cuppa. (she may not have given any thought to not leaving William out in the yard unattended, and to be honest why should she. He should have been safe to play in the house yard)

thanks for bearing with me me as I go on with my journey, wondering & tossing things around.

so perhaps FM came out and said 'where's William' and maybe FGM said something like ' oh, he was here a minute ago when I went & grabbed a cuppa'

and maybe this is the moment when everything stood still for FM - because she knew there was a potential for something to happen with these children, she was on alert

again, as I shrug my shoulders, just my own thoughts ..

Throw in DN and JW ....

 

[Bohemian]

I’m not sure there ever was a paedophile ‘ring’ per se. A group of men who had a history of CSA and CP/CSE and who all knew each other; yes.

DCI Jubelin is no longer set on William’s abduction being perpetrated by a CSO, although he didn’t rule it out:

(11:53) Reporter:

'Are the majority of those suspects sex offenders?'

(11:58) DCI Jubelin:

'I think we need to keep an open mind in regards to this. There's an assumption right from the start, that a three year old child's been abducted that may, or may not, be the sexual predator. We're keeping an open mind to that. I can't break down specifically how many persons of interest are on the basis of suspicion attached to their sexual interests in children but I do want to stress this is a unique investigation. I'm very mindful that we've looked at all possibilities and I keep an open mind to it.

I hear stories from overseas of situations where children have disappeared for decades and the turned up in circumstances. I also hear stories of incidents have occurred that are by accident and been covered up and then revealed. So, we are keeping an open mind to it and our focus is not just on sex offenders or, let's break it down; paedophiles. We're not just looking at that aspect of it.

And we're also mindful that our research tells us that the child, at the age of three, doesn't necessarily fit into the parameters of childless couples where young babies have been abducted. It's that unique nature of this investigation that's making this particularly trying.'
__________
​

Source:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/e...-disappearance-of-William-Tyrrell-(continued)

So, let me see:

• William may, or may not, have been abducted by a CSO;
• He may be held captive or hidden by his abductor; or
• He may have been the victim of an accident, probably fatal; but
• It’s unlikely he was abducted as a substitute child.

Hmmm . . . pick a card, any card. I wish I was a fly on the wall of SFR’s incident room.

Regardless of how they go about their investigation, I pray they find the answer to William’s disappearance soon — for his, and his loved ones’ sakes.

Excuse the repost but I just remembered I had posted about Steven Stayner’s abduction and seven-year captivity by CSO Kenneth Parnell a while ago:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Stayner

I wonder if Steven’s abduction and captivity may be similar to what DCI Jubelin has in mind when he talks about children disappearing for decades and turning up? Elizabeth Smart’s abduction and captivity, and the three teenaged girls AC’s abducted and held captive for 11 years, in the States, would be similar examples.

 

[Warshawski]

Hey Peeps, just want to apologise, once again, for being so far behind, and boring you all with stuff that has already been suggested or clarified

 

[SouthAussie]

It's hard to believe an abductor or co-abductor would head out unprepared to find his way or signpost himself by asking for directions. However, it would at least be mitigating the damage to ask for Batar Creek Road rather than Benaroon Drive. The only way I can see him asking for directions is if he had a definite appointment to meet somebody to pick up William, and it would be leaving that person in the lurch, or leaving William to found and tell the story, if he didn't find the hand-over location. Even so, I think in his place I would have asked to borrow a street directory, or browsed one on sale in a shop, rather than name where I was going.

Unless ... the decision to abduct William was random and opportunistic (which I believe it was). Then there would be no need to think of covering your tracks prior to the event, life would be trotting along 'as normal'. There would only be the need to backtrack and create an alibi afterwards.

 

[SouthAussie]

Hey Peeps, just want to apologise, once again, for being so far behind, and boring you all with stuff that has already been suggested or clarified

You don't bore us Warshawski. But I do know some people who read from the end of the thread and back to where they last left off, so they can see what has been addressed and what hasn't been, and gather their own thoughts on responses so far.

 

[SouthAussie]

Throw in DN and JW ....

Who is JW?

 

[Warshawski]

Sounds like the police jumped on that right away. Had the townsfolk save their CCTV, and even set up roadblocks at the exact time William went missing, during the same day on the following week.


Police set up a roadblock at the end of Bendooran Drive at the exact time William went missing, asking passing cars if they remember seeing anything
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...2/news-story/9721a0c84428ed4132753d1916e287fa
September 21, 2014

and these CCTV readings must've been useful I'm sure.. if nothing else they would have surely shown who drove the street, let alone who parked where etc

 

[JLZ]

Unless ... the decision to abduct William was random and opportunistic (which I believe it was). Then there would be no need to think of covering your tracks prior to the event, life would be trotting along 'as normal'. There would only be the need to backtrack and create an alibi afterwards.

True, but the well-dressed man would likely be carrying a well-equipped phone in that case. He wouldn't need to ask directions, and he would have left a ping trail--before the encounter at least.

 

[SouthAussie]

True, but the well-dressed man would likely be carrying a well-equipped phone in that case. He wouldn't need to ask directions, and he would have left a ping trail--before the encounter at least.

I wonder if the dodgy internet connection in Kendall was the reason he had to stop and ask for directions. Just remembered about that, when you mentioned pings.

 

[Bohemian]

True, but the well-dressed man would likely be carrying a well-equipped phone in that case. He wouldn't need to ask directions, and he would have left a ping trail--before the encounter at least.

I wonder how long a period of time people’s movements are able to be tracked retrospectively by their mobile phones ‘pinging’ local towers? I suppose SFR has looked at the data irt POIs, if it’s available. Can’t see why it wouldn’t be with data retention laws being what they are. Will have to do some research to see when they came into effect.

As we saw in KR’s case, there’s rarely such a thing as the perfect crime in the digital age. If it wasn’t a neighbour’s CCTV, it was KR’s mobile phone or it was the accused’s; if not those it was random CCTV along the route to where her remains were found; or it was the ipad searches; maybe it was dashcam footage from another car or it could have been KR’s own Merc that was silently watching; or, in the case of the mobile phone towers, listening on;; recording everything, faithfully collecting evidence that led to a murder charge. Welcome, Big Brother. 1984 is upon us.

 

[they'll get you]

Unless ... the decision to abduct William was random and opportunistic (which I believe it was). Then there would be no need to think of covering your tracks prior to the event, life would be trotting along 'as normal'. There would only be the need to backtrack and create an alibi afterwards.

SA that’s pretty well how I picture it.

Like if a shop camera picks up someone acting suspiciously, hovering around an area or looking around to see who’s watching as opposed to one who spontaneously picks up and walks.


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