Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #36

[Bohemian]

Was his parole revoked in the same month as the assault on the girls? I don't know that it was, and that is why the prosecution argued against it.

6 June 1984 - JH goaled.
19 Dec 1986 - released
29 Jan 1987 - parole revoked

Spedding is accused of sexually assaulting the two girls, aged three and six, in a caravan at Campbelltown in April/May 1987.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #26
(See post #3 by soso, with links)

Fangs. Great minds think alike (even if I did get the months wrong).

 

[Josie2014]

My suspicion falls around this witness, how much truth did this witness tell and how many lies. Has she used William's case and the Task Force? I think she has. She has definitely been used by the Task Force moo

"A key witness in the case against Bill Spedding has been described as “obsessive, compulsive and bizarre” by a judge, who said she had a history of making similar allegations against men, court documents reveal.

Documents presented during his bail hearing show a woman who forms a key part of the police case against him was previously found by a judge to have “a propensity to make allegations of misconduct of various kinds” against men.

The witness, who cannot be named, claimed Mr Spedding and another woman sexually abused children. These allegations, which were unrelated to the charges he now faces, were rejected by a judge, who said he was “reasonably satisfied” the abuse did not occur.

The judge found the witness may also have sought to influence the evidence of the children allegedly involved, the court documents show.

The witness, who has separately alleged Mr Spedding committed the offences for which he currently faces charges, was “obsessive, compulsive and bizarre”, the judge said."

Nocookies

 

[sleepinoz]

If my 2 daughters were abused by someone, I would also be "obsessive, compulsive and bizarre" until justice was received.

 

[SouthAussie]

I personally think that the criticism of the witness by the judge is appalling, and out of line.

There are quite a few things that the judge would/should know that should have circumvented those harsh comments by the judge. I will give a few as an example.


"In my view, it is not proper to cross-examine a witness on the fact that his or her testimony has been rejected or disbelieved in a prior case. That fact, in and of itself, does not constitute discreditable conduct.

Put simply, it would be a denial of justice for an accused person or the prosecution’s case to be judged on the basis of findings of fact and of credibility in another proceeding."
https://www.siskinds.com/envirolaw/judicial-anger/

"The prosecutor must exercise his or her power to choose which witnesses to call consistent with the requirements of fairness. He or she is under a duty to call all credible witnesses whose evidence is essential to fully presenting the narrative of the case. This includes calling evidence that is both favourable and unfavourable to its case."
7.2.2 - Duty to Call Relevant and Credible Witnesses

"The prosecution should subpoena all witnesses named on the indictment and make them available for the defence to call"
7.2.2 - Duty to Call Relevant and Credible Witnesses

 

[Bohemian]

My suspicion falls around this witness, how much truth did this witness tell and how many lies. Has she used William's case and the Task Force? I think she has. She has definitely been used by the Task Force moo

"A key witness in the case against Bill Spedding has been described as “obsessive, compulsive and bizarre” by a judge, who said she had a history of making similar allegations against men, court documents reveal.

Documents presented during his bail hearing show a woman who forms a key part of the police case against him was previously found by a judge to have “a propensity to make allegations of misconduct of various kinds” against men.

The witness, who cannot be named, claimed Mr Spedding and another woman sexually abused children. These allegations, which were unrelated to the charges he now faces, were rejected by a judge, who said he was “reasonably satisfied” the abuse did not occur.

The judge found the witness may also have sought to influence the evidence of the children allegedly involved, the court documents show.

The witness, who has separately alleged Mr Spedding committed the offences for which he currently faces charges, was “obsessive, compulsive and bizarre”, the judge said."

Nocookies

So let’s get this straight. We’re supposed to sympathise with a named POI in William’s case, yet villify three women, two of whom may have been victims of sexual assault as little girls — by whoever (it doesn’t matter). C’mon.

 

[purpleandgreen]

Points in article
* Prosecutor withdrew Victorian charges.
* BS did not have to attend court.
* 20 Sept - court application for costs.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
William Tyrrell ‘person of interest’ has historic child sex charges dismissed

I wonder if the girls didn't want to testify and dredge all of the horror back up again?

 

[purpleandgreen]

Those poor victims.
How terrible to be brave enough to put yourself through the angst of a trial, and then not have a favourable outcome ... and then to have the person on your side, the Prosecutor, be forced to withdraw further charges as the tendency evidence was not available.


BBM
Child sexual abuse is thus not uncommon, with somewhere between 1 in 10 to 1 in 7 males, and 1 in 8 to 1 in 3 females having experienced some form of child sexual abuse.

Yet the numbers of incidents of child sexual abuse that enter the criminal justice system and that result in a conviction are very small by comparison. Of child sex offence matters progressing through the New South Wales justice system between 1995 and 2004, fewer than 16% of the cases reported to the police resulted in proven charges.
This was more pronounced in cases involving adult complainants.

Prosecuting child sexual abuse: The role of social science evidence
26. Prosecuting child sexual abuse: The role of social science evidence

Couldn't agree more, SA.

 

[Josie2014]

I have my opinion on this and I own it.

I don't ask anyone to agree with me or sympathise with a POI. Also, I did not vilify THREE women. The victims and their justice is uppermost in my mind.

Until the public is given ALL the details from the trial I will remain open to every possibility surrounding "allegations".

Sorry if this bothers others, I won't comment anymore on this topic.

I am here for William and if it comes out that William's case has been used for another's gain I will be livid.

 

[purpleandgreen]

Yes, they are.
And I hope that this is considered when a costs hearing is held. We cannot afford to be rewarding predators who are greatly under suspicion due to high police evidence, but not enough evidence to successfully convict.

With 84% of these cases not reaching a successful conclusion in NSW, perhaps it is time for the law to allow the social science evidence that is discussed in the article I linked above.

Too many child victims not having any justice, too many predators walking free.

Makes me sick to the stomach, SA.

 

[purpleandgreen]

Why is there no other MSM on this story? The public interest is there. All I can say about this situation is, you don't get acquitted unless there is reasonable doubt and with the documents the DPP had with terrible allegations against the defendant, the defence was able to prove reasonable doubt. With the DPP knowing that to begin with, why did they pursue the case? Again in Victoria, why did the DPP decide to prosecute to begin with if it didn't have compelling evidence or less evidence than the NSW case. The damage has been done. BS name has been dragged through the press for about 3.5 years, been held in custody until he could prove just cause, sat through a couple of years of court proceedings which I would have imagined would cost a fortune and vilified on many websites. Mako has him listed as a sex offender and people on there are baying for him to be executed. and when acquitted and charges dropped, it doesn't clear his name in many in society's view. IMO

Ah, but we don't know about William's case yet though do we?

 

[sosocurious]

Is it possible the victims did not want to proceed and that is why the prosecution withdrew the charges? I would think the NSW proceeding would have taken a huge toll on them.

Justice Bellow said that, while the allegations were serious and there was medical evidence to support the victims' injury claims, there was still a question as to who attacked the girls.

Police have obtained statements from the two victims and obtained evidence that one victim at the time allegedly said: "Bill did it."

Bill Spedding, questioned over William Tyrrell disappearance, bailed over child sex offences

If two people have the same intent ... ????

 

[purpleandgreen]

Why is there no other MSM on this story? The public interest is there. All I can say about this situation is, you don't get acquitted unless there is reasonable doubt and with the documents the DPP had with terrible allegations against the defendant, the defence was able to prove reasonable doubt. With the DPP knowing that to begin with, why did they pursue the case? Again in Victoria, why did the DPP decide to prosecute to begin with if it didn't have compelling evidence or less evidence than the NSW case. The damage has been done. BS name has been dragged through the press for about 3.5 years, been held in custody until he could prove just cause, sat through a couple of years of court proceedings which I would have imagined would cost a fortune and vilified on many websites. Mako has him listed as a sex offender and people on there are baying for him to be executed. and when acquitted and charges dropped, it doesn't clear his name in many in society's view. IMO

From Bo above ^^^^^^ #803

The court heard some witnesses had died

It also emerged some evidence had been lost.’

 

[purpleandgreen]

That's fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion. Mine is BS would be traumatised forever by these proceedings and living in hell. The manner in which this was done, which I believe was SFR strategy, is to my mind unforgivable. Taskforce Sano have asked for any historical allegation of CSO's to come forward with the view to either to approach all allegations with a range of options right up to prosecution, with many other options on the table, they chose to prosecute this case. To my mind it has been hinky from the start.

Couldn't agree more about hinkiness and Spedding. My old grandmother used to say, 'Where there's smoke there's fire' and there sure has been a lot of smoke.

 

[Bohemian]

I have my opinion on this and I own it.

I don't ask anyone to agree with me or sympathise with a POI. Also, I did not vilify THREE women. The victims and their justice is uppermost in my mind.

Until the public is given ALL the details from the trial I will remain open to every possibility surrounding "allegations".

Sorry if this bothers others, I won't comment anymore on this topic.

I am here for William and if it comes out that William's case has been used for another's gain I will be livid.

Yeah, OK.

 

[purpleandgreen]

I’ll admit that DCI Jubelin can fight ‘dirty’ but, when I read about some of the cases he’s been involved with and the alleged perpetrators, honestly, I can’t blame him. I’m not sure if I was in his position I wouldn’t use any means necessary (within the law) to seek justice.

You know, Bo. I don't care how dirty he fights as long as he gets those who deserve 'to be got by him'!

 

[SouthAussie]

Is it possible the victims did not want to proceed and that is why the prosecution withdrew the charges? I would think the NSW proceeding would have taken a huge toll on them.

Justice Bellow said that, while the allegations were serious and there was medical evidence to support the victims' injury claims, there was still a question as to who attacked the girls.

Police have obtained statements from the two victims and obtained evidence that one victim at the time allegedly said: "Bill did it."

Bill Spedding, questioned over William Tyrrell disappearance, bailed over child sex offences

If two people have the same intent ... ????

Well, we have an ignorant judge who discredited a witness by using no impartiality at all, a case that is over 30 years old, lost evidence, deceased witnesses, victims who were passed around to other abusers, a defendant that will never change his stance because to do so would mean a prison sentence (maybe

) .....

I was also rereading today about the threats to the girls. The older girl would remember those, and her story should be believed.

But it comes down, essentially, to he-said-she-said with apparently no DNA (due to the age of the crimes) to prove otherwise.


The alleged assaults “were usually preceded or reinforced after the fact with threats not to tell anyone what had occurred or the accused would tell the police and they would ‘take mum away’ ”, court documents allege.
“There were also threats made to one sibling that if they disclosed what had taken place, the other sibling would be harmed.”
The Australian - April 23, 2015

 

[purpleandgreen]

Nocookies

The allegations were reported to police at the time and are supported by case notes and medical files held for more than 25 years by at least two NSW government departments, according to a police statement of facts presented to the court.

Detectives from Strike Force Rosann, which was established after William Tyrrell disappeared last September, discovered these documents and have re-interviewed the alleged victims and other witnesses who gave evidence at the time, the court heard.

And that above in red italics, is exactly why I'm shaking my head in horror and disbelief that the charges were withdrawn.

 

[purpleandgreen]

The onus is on the police to disprove, not BS to prove.

Well if I was in his shoes and had a water-tight alibi, I'd be proving it pretty darn quickly. IMO.

 

[purpleandgreen]

If my 2 daughters were abused by someone, I would also be "obsessive, compulsive and bizarre" until justice was received.

And damn angry. He'd he'd be minus a couple of appendages, let me tell you.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

If two people have the same intent ... ????

Do you mean two abusers with the same intent, then my answer is: Exactly that is the beginning of "a ring" with many more abusers in prospect and on hold (neighbors, colleagues, friends, relatives, group members, members of church community, ...). IMO MOO