Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #37

[Karinna]

You know, I never believed that statement "that the children had been coached" - if they were, why did one not remember?

As Justice Bellow also said:

"It is difficult to accept the Crown case is strong in circumstances where, as I have pointed out, that one of the victims has no recollection at all about the incident," Justice Bellow said.

Bill Spedding, questioned over William Tyrrell disappearance, bailed over child sex offences

How is it possible that he thinks they were coached and then one doesn't 'recall'?????

BBM, I have no idea? It was a very long time ago and memories fade i guess. And i think the younger child was probably too young back then to remember i would think.

 

[Thebottomline]

BBM, I have no idea? It was a very long time ago and memories fade i guess. And i think the younger child was probably too young back then to remember i would think.

Never underestimate a young mind Karinna ,the brain is like a computer that holds many memories . these woman are adults now and I would assume not being coached by anyone. What would their motivation be, I wouldn’t think it wasnt monetary as I don’t think their was any to give.

 

[Thebottomline]

I don't think anyone made him a scapegoat. So many coincidences............ an unconfirmed alibi, historical abuse charges, office near the local news who outed him, tshirt down the drain, deleted call log, Col's interview..............I could go on and on. He didn't help himself in many of these circumstances.

After saying that, I don't think he is involved.

Yes you’re right sleep in Oz, I probably should have worded my post better.

 

[Karinna]

Never underestimate a young mind Karinna ,the brain is like a computer that holds many memories . these woman are adults now and I would assume not being coached by anyone.

I think from what was stated in MSM the 3 yr. old child had no memory of the abuse.

 

[sleepinoz]

BBM, I have no idea? It was a very long time ago and memories fade i guess. And i think the younger child was probably too young back then to remember i would think.

You would think if she was coached that she would remember though - wouldn't you?

 

[Karinna]

In this MSM article it states Spedding was investigated and cleared at the time
(quote)
Mr O’Brien told the court that the accusations which Spedding now faces have been previously investigated and Mr Spedding was cleared.

"The Crown case is not a strong one," Mr O'Brien.

Mr O'Brien said the allegations were made amid "a hothouse of suspicion" and "sinister overtones", and that there was "an atmosphere" of "coaching and tutoring" the young girls that Spedding was "a naughty man who did bad things."
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

 

[sleepinoz]

BBM, Well i find that really unconscionable considering the tender age of the victims and that those very young girls would no way have had to appear as witnesses before the Court to give evidence. The evidence by investigators should of had should of stood on its own to convict IMO.
So let a child predator off the hook to re offend again on more victims is nonsensical IMO.
And maybe if the issue had of come to resolution back then, the poor young women today would not have to go before a Trial court recently to re live such a horrible event in their lives.

As you stated in another post..it was a very long time ago. In those days I imagine that they thought they were doing the best thing for the girls.

It was a very different time, even though only 30 odd years ago.

 

[sleepinoz]

In this MSM article it states Spedding was investigated and cleared at the time
(quote)
Mr O’Brien told the court that the accusations which Spedding now faces have been previously investigated and Mr Spedding was cleared.

"The Crown case is not a strong one," Mr O'Brien.

Mr O'Brien said the allegations were made amid "a hothouse of suspicion" and "sinister overtones", and that there was "an atmosphere" of "coaching and tutoring" the young girls that Spedding was "a naughty man who did bad things."
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

He's his lawyer, believe what you want but IMO the words may have been misconstrued. Meaning I don't think he was 'cleared' I do think he wasn't charged because of what has been previously stated.

 

[sleepinoz]

Yes you’re right sleep in Oz, I probably should have worded my post better.

I think you worded your post properly, it was your thoughts. I wasn't inferring that you were wrong, it was my opinion and yours was yours.

 

[SouthAussie]

In this MSM article it states Spedding was investigated and cleared at the time
(quote)
Mr O’Brien told the court that the accusations which Spedding now faces have been previously investigated and Mr Spedding was cleared.

"The Crown case is not a strong one," Mr O'Brien.

Mr O'Brien said the allegations were made amid "a hothouse of suspicion" and "sinister overtones", and that there was "an atmosphere" of "coaching and tutoring" the young girls that Spedding was "a naughty man who did bad things."
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

Mr O'Brien was Spedding's lawyer. It is/was his job to create reasonable doubt. The fact sheet states clearly .....

“Police have been informed the offences … were not pursued formally by police at the time of disclosure due to concerns as to the welfare of the victims, given their tender age,” a fact sheet said.
Mother demands answers after Bill Spedding arrest

That is what they did 30 years ago. Thought that the children would 'forget' what happened to them. Thought that they could not pit a child against an adult.

Far too many people got away with abusing children back then ... and still do.
Far too many people also got away with abusing women back then ... and still do.

 

[Thebottomline]

I think you worded your post properly, it was your thoughts. I wasn't inferring that you were wrong, it was my opinion and yours was yours.

Thankyou, my thoughts were just fleeting , trying ro play good cop bad cop with no experience .

 

[Karinna]

Mr O'Brien was Spedding's lawyer. It is/was his job to create reasonable doubt. The fact sheet states clearly .....

“Police have been informed the offences … were not pursued formally by police at the time of disclosure due to concerns as to the welfare of the victims, given their tender age,” a fact sheet said.
Mother demands answers after Bill Spedding arrest

That is what they did 30 years ago. Thought that the children would 'forget' what happened to them. Thought that they could not pit a child against an adult.
Far too many people got away with abusing children back then ... and still do.

To create 'reasonable doubt' in a bail hearing? Isn't that normally what happens in a Trial?
Yes agree, too many people get away with those type of heinous crimes against children.
But it is also a dreadful crime to accuse someone of if they are innocent, and tarnishes them for life usually. I guess that's why we have due process in courts of law to prove guilt or innocence.

 

[SouthAussie]

To create 'reasonable doubt' in a bail hearing? Isn't that normally what happens in a Trial?
Yes agree, too many people get away with those type of heinous crimes against children.
But it is also a dreadful crime to accuse someone of if they are innocent, and tarnishes them for life usually. I guess that's why we have due process in courts of law to prove guilt or innocence.

It is a lawyer's job to start creating reasonable doubt from the moment he takes on a case. He may not even know if his client is guilty or not guilty. He is just doing the job he is paid to do. Defend his client, create reasonable doubt, win his case, get bail for his client if he can.

When I look at the way other lawyers have manipulated the media prior to their client even being charged. Borce Ristevski's lawyers started with the media a long time before he was charged or appeared in court for the very first time, for the murder of his wife.

So, yes, even media statements after/before/during a bail hearing.

 

[sleepinoz]

It is a lawyer's job to start creating reasonable doubt from the moment he takes on a case. He may not even know if his client is guilty or not guilty. He is just doing the job he is paid to do. Defend his client, create reasonable doubt, win his case, get bail for his client if he can.

When I look at the way other lawyers have manipulated the media prior to their client even being charged. Borce Ristevski's lawyers started with the media a long time before he was charged or appeared in court for the very first time, for the murder of his wife.

So, yes, even media statements after/before/during a bail hearing.

Exactly SA, in a bail hearing a lawyer hasn't had much chance to speak to his client who has been locked up for a bit. If his client said "I wasn't charged for that" a lawyer could take that to mean he was cleared. He has to do the best he can and I'm not saying he lied, I could say he bent the truth though

 

[Karinna]

In regard to a bail hearing in NSW
(quote)
Bail concerns

After deciding whether you have to “show cause”, the court has to consider four things, also known as ‘bail concerns’. They are:

• will you attend court when you have to?
• will you commit serious offences?
• will you endanger any person or the community?
• will you interfere with witnesses or evidence?

If the court is not concerned about any of these issues, or if the court thinks the concerns can be addressed by imposing conditions on your bail, then the court must give you bail.

If the court gives you bail, the court must decide what conditions to impose, if any. The conditions imposed on your bail must be only the minimum necessary to address the concerns the court has. The conditions must also be workable and proportionate and appropriate to the offence that you have been charged with and the concerns the court has.
A guide to bail - Legal Aid NSW

 

[sleepinoz]

In regard to a bail hearing in NSW
(quote)
Bail concerns

After deciding whether you have to “show cause”, the court has to consider four things, also known as ‘bail concerns’. They are:

• will you attend court when you have to?
• will you commit serious offences?
• will you endanger any person or the community?
• will you interfere with witnesses or evidence?

If the court is not concerned about any of these issues, or if the court thinks the concerns can be addressed by imposing conditions on your bail, then the court must give you bail.

If the court gives you bail, the court must decide what conditions to impose, if any. The conditions imposed on your bail must be only the minimum necessary to address the concerns the court has. The conditions must also be workable and proportionate and appropriate to the offence that you have been charged with and the concerns the court has.
A guide to bail - Legal Aid NSW

BBM - I think he did that

 

[Karinna]

BBM - I think he did that

What did he do??

 

[sleepinoz]

What did he do??

He/or MS contacted the witness.

 

[sleepinoz]

OT - anyone following this thread?

Australia - Australia - Azaria Chamberlain, 9 wks, Uluru, NT, 17 Aug 1980

 

[Karinna]

He/or MS contacted the witness.

Oh yeah there was that.