Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #39

[papertrail]

Here is some 'light' reading in respect to NSW police.

LAW ENFORCEMENT (POWERS AND RESPONSIBILITIES) ACT 2002

LAW ENFORCEMENT (POWERS AND RESPONSIBILITIES) ACT 2002

 

[papertrail]

And then more 'light' reading. The Surveillance Devices Act 2007 covers listening devices and warrants for use

SURVEILLANCE DEVICES ACT 2007

 

[papertrail]

And further layperson explanations for everyday scenarios for us 'ordinary' people not law enforcement.

Legal Guide to Surveillance Legislation in NSW

 

[papertrail]

The NSW Ombudsman prepares annual reports on NSW police use of equipment covered in the Surveillance Devices Act. If you Google .....

Report under Section 49(1) of the Surveillance Devices Act 2007....

You will find various reports which clearly indicate the seriousness of issues.

 

[Violet77]

Perhaps the recording came to attention while preparations were being made for the upcoming inquest in regards to the reasons for the main directions the case has taken, or stuck with.

Maybe whatever is on that recording is what has made SFR so focused on BS - a lot of people don’t understand why he is still a poi without an arrest, but this could be that why, the “evidence” they have was not obtained through legal channels.

Thinking positively (& somehow still hoping) it could be the reason police are still “operating on the assumption William is still alive” - maybe the recording contains evidence of that.

 

[papertrail]

Perhaps the recording came to attention while preparations were being made for the upcoming inquest in regards to the reasons for the main directions the case has taken, or stuck with.

Maybe whatever is on that recording is what has made SFR so focused on BS - a lot of people don’t understand why he is still a poi without an arrest, but this could be that why, the “evidence” they have was not obtained through legal channels.

Thinking positively (& somehow still hoping) it could be the reason police are still “operating on the assumption William is still alive” - maybe the recording contains evidence of that.

A person of interest does not necessarily indicate they are of interest due to suspicion by police of involvement.

A person if interest can be anyone that has information the police are interested in like witnessing an event or information about somebody.
There is currently NO information that William is deceased therefor the premise he is still alive is the only acceptable alternative.

 

[Violet77]

A person of interest does not necessarily indicate they are of interest due to suspicion by police of involvement.

A person if interest can be anyone that has information the police are interested in like witnessing an event or information about somebody.
There is currently NO information that William is deceased therefor the premise he is still alive is the only acceptable alternative.

Thanks for the clarification mate, we are all aware of those explanations. I’m not sure why you felt the need to point out the obvious as it does not cancel out my above thought.

 

[stormbird]

The property next to the northern boundary of FGM's former place is for sale. The real estate photos don't show views of the FGM place (No.48 B.Drive), unfortunately, only trees. But I think it's good to see new views of the neighbourhood nearby. The southern boundary of the For Sale property (No.52 B.Drive) is close to the patio area where William was playing before he went missing.

If you look over the roof of the For Sale house in this aerial view and down to the end of the backyard, there's an area where post-and-wire fences meet in a little clearing:



To the left of the fences is the bushland area which goes up the hill to the cemetery. I think the fences show the boundary corner between (in the middle of the photo) No.13 E.Crescent, showing a lawn area, and (to the right of the photo) No.30 B.Drive, which has lots of trees.

This Google Map shows the property boundaries:



There's also another aerial view from the back of the For Sale house, showing a glimpse of No.51 across the road, and the point where B.Drive becomes a bush track:

 

[deugirtni]

I might be missing something here, but IMO it's very puzzling why Jubelin would be stood down from SFR based on improperly obtaining a recording. While it may be illegal to record a conversation without the other person's knowledge, or without a warrant, it is certainly not unheard of in judicial matters to have improperly obtained evidence ruled upon by a sitting judge as to whether it should or should not be allowed based on probative vs prejudicial value. I don't recall ever hearing of a LEO being demoted, reprimanded, charged etc. under such circumstances.

from Sydney Criminal Lawyers

"Like unlawful audio recordings, the court will balance the level of impropriety by the police or the informer against the usefulness or purpose of admitting the evidence in court."

I'm thinking that it may be unheard of, simply because these types of things may not generally make it into the news, and even if so, not so prominently plastered all over a country's newspapers. But because of the notoriety of this case, everything they get their hands on is desirable for readership/advertising dollars.

Potentially this could be a very big deal, depending on if that piece of 'evidence' made it into the presumably-already-submitted coroner's brief. I'm imagining that briefs presented to the coroner's inquest must be impeccable, all t's crossed and i's dotted, so to speak. If it came to light at this late hour by someone noticing that something in the brief was not backed up with an appropriate warrant to deem it usable evidence, I could see something like that putting NSW Police into a tailspin, and possibly forcing them to save face by taking preemptive action (desk-duty while it is looked into by an independent review), rather than potentially being embarrassingly called out on it during the inquest?

Even worse if that piece of evidence made it into the hands of the attorney of the person(s) who was recorded, and it was brought to light in that way, imho.

If the particular recording might be seen as unfairly going at someone, that type of thing could possibly result in the department receiving accusations of some sort of egregious persecution.

If the recording ended up being proof of someone having knowledge of WT's disappearance, it would be a terrible thing if nothing could be done with it due to it being illegally recorded.

If the recording was done amongst say, members of the SFR team, and not relating to evidence, one might think the action taken and the timing of the action, is a bit over the top perhaps, and could have been better dealt with internally, given the timing?

For cases where there is an issue of evidence being illegally obtained, where a judge has to rule on its admissibility as evidence, if I were the NSW Police, I would not want to stake bets on the likelihood of it being allowed unless perhaps it was an honest mistake or oversight, ie if police seized computer contents with a search warrant for a house, when they should have also obtained a specific and separate warrant for the computer contents (and even then, they would be taking their chances it would be allowed). For an experienced head of the investigative team to willfully contravene the law, thereby putting a trial and/or a conviction at risk would be devastating in a case like this. Surely GJ would not take such risks, and let's hope it was not anything like this! imo.

"It is important to be aware that police often build cases using evidence that is illegally obtained or otherwise liable to exclusion, and that identifying such evidence can lead to a case being dropped or thrown out of court."
When Can Illegally Obtained Evidence Be Excluded?

 

[Bohemian]

Still on the subject of Jubes and his reported removal as lead detective of SFR, I think if the matter was anything more than peculiar to that particular team, he would no longer be lead detective of any other cases, let alone this one, (which is a Critical Incident Team investigation into a death during a police operation[1]):



Source:

Search NSW Court Lists | NSW Online Registry

[1]

Man shot by police in Sydney identified as 'devoted family man' David Petersen

 

[deugirtni]

Still on the subject of Jubes and his reported removal as lead detective of SFR, I think if the matter was anything more than peculiar to that particular team, he would no longer be lead detective of any other cases, let alone this one, (which is a Critical Incident Team investigation into a death during a police operation[1]):

View attachment 173383

Source:

Search NSW Court Lists | NSW Online Registry

[1]

Man shot by police in Sydney identified as 'devoted family man' David Petersen

That seems an odd case, will be interesting to see what the inquest findings are.

 

[Bohemian]

That seems an odd case, will be interesting to see what the inquest findings are.

It happens quite often—too often for my liking—but that’s for another thread.

 

[stormbird]

In a previous thread there was some discussion about changes to the law which would affect the publication of details about deaths of children in out-of-home care. I'm guessing those legal changes might have kicked in now (though I don't know - maybe it was always this bad):

Findings by Deputy State Coroner, Magistrate Harriet Grahame, 26 February 2019, (PDF) Inquest into the death of Emily, in which the following must not be identified:
- Emily "and any identifying information which could lead to the identity of Emily being disclosed";
- Emily's foster parents and foster sister;
- her birth parents and siblings;
- her schools and the teachers who gave evidence;
- the out-of-home care non-government organisation with her case management;
- names mentioned in evidence.
Also, there cannot be "publication of any of the exhibits tendered as evidence in these coronial proceedings nor of any of the oral evidence taken in the inquest hearing or submissions or opening and closing addresses."

The coroner deserves a medal for still being able to convey a sense of Emily's life.

 

[Warshawski]

Or then again, I wonder if it could have been something as simple as DSS Lambert’s name being entered as the OIC on the Court Lists Online Search website and NSWPOL being ‘forced’ to confirm Jubes had been stood down?

It seems to be a little TMI about why in the presser though. I would’ve expected that if it had just been a journo stumbling over the change in OIC at the inquest, a blanket ‘internal investigation’ or ‘for operational reasons’ may have been delivered as an ‘excuse’ from the powers-that-be. Ah, sands through the hourglass...

Hey Bo, and with all due respect, I don't actually give a flying fig about how it all came to be In The Media. ( any number of reasons tho I'll grant if that was my concern )

At this stage I'm primarily focused on:
Why has Det Jubelin been removed from William's case (has he really been removed from the case or this another ploy?)

It's been reported to be due to 'unauthorised' recordings on a mobile phone ......
My mind goes to :
Who was recorded?
What was recorded ?
Who reported that recording ?
What was that 'reporting' person's involvement in the investigation or otherwise ?

Just some of My Own Personal Thoughts as I ponder ...

May God Bless this little Boy William, who's legacy I've no doubt will evoke change.

Yesterday I delivered a Life Story on behalf of my younger cousin. .. written by her in the month leading up to her death from a rare & rampant blood cancer that claimed her earthily life within approx 14 months of diagnosis & with all its painful facial tumours etc. written by her in an honest reflection of her painful & often destructive journey since birth. ..

What a beautiful service it was.

I found myself uplifted by the spirit that pervaded the Occassion, solidified by the profound sentiments of people who attended; people who ' just wanted to say a few words'; also people who spoke with me afterwards, who wanted to tell their story & give credence, who spoke continuously of her Caring & Giving nature, who held her responsible for them turning their life around & being a worthwhile person today .. even tho courage wasn't there for them to speak publicly in the chapel.

Good people - rare as they are these days - and as much as they're sought after & valued by some - they will face hell on earth from the selfish, self-centred, self -indulgent bigottry ways that tread on everyone in their path ..

Yet some of those Good People manage to rise above, as they put their trust in a far greater being..... she trod a difficult path, yet came to her Lord with total belief & forgiveness.

As were her final words ' Please Everyone, Look out for All Children.. ..

 

[Warshawski]

I can see the whole chapter. I made an abridgement:

One of the qualities that I find isn't given enough importance in leadership is empathy. . . . By empathy, I mean everyone in the team is equally important. . . .

People ..... .. Bla bla ....

. . . With the William Tyrrell investigation, I've spoken to the parents on a weekly or fortnightly basis ..... Etc...

The Change Makers

OMG - TLZ - I had to go back to check if this was you writing this !
(Content chopped by me in the interest of available space!) but a great & honest article in my opinion.

It's my opinion that if someone is guilty of a crime ( and I'm not talking about stealing a lolly from the counter or even a dress from the rack).
I'm talking about crimes of personal & insidious attacks, invasion, fear, violence, kidnapping & death - and IMO the uncovering of that fact should be open to whatever means / skills are available.

I'm so often befuddled & befluxed as to why we, as a society, go all out to protect & provide for those who prey upon others. .. what message does that send ??

 

[Bohemian]

Hey Bo, and with all due respect, I don't actually give a flying fig about how it all came to be In The Media. ( any number of reasons tho I'll grant if that was my concern )

At this stage I'm primarily focused on:
Why has Det Jubelin been removed from William's case (has he really been removed from the case or this another ploy?)

It's been reported to be due to 'unauthorised' recordings on a mobile phone ......
My mind goes to :
Who was recorded?
What was recorded ?
Who reported that recording ?
What was that 'reporting' person's involvement in the investigation or otherwise ?

Just some of My Own Personal Thoughts as I ponder ...

May God Bless this little Boy William, who's legacy I've no doubt will evoke change.

Yesterday I delivered a Life Story on behalf of my younger cousin. .. written by her in the month leading up to her death from a rare & rampant blood cancer that claimed her earthily life within approx 14 months of diagnosis & with all its painful facial tumours etc. written by her in an honest reflection of her painful & often destructive journey since birth. ..

What a beautiful service it was.

I found myself uplifted by the spirit that pervaded the Occassion, solidified by the profound sentiments of people who attended; people who ' just wanted to say a few words'; also people who spoke with me afterwards, who wanted to tell their story & give credence, who spoke continuously of her Caring & Giving nature, who held her responsible for them turning their life around & being a worthwhile person today .. even tho courage wasn't there for them to speak publicly in the chapel.

Good people - rare as they are these days - and as much as they're sought after & valued by some - they will face hell on earth from the selfish, self-centred, self -indulgent bigottry ways that tread on everyone in their path ..

Yet some of those Good People manage to rise above, as they put their trust in a far greater being..... she trod a difficult path, yet came to her Lord with total belief & forgiveness.

As were her final words ' Please Everyone, Look out for All Children.. ..

Those are questions we can’t know the answer to. Personally, I doubt if anything more will come of the accusation re Jubes’ phone.

I’m sorry for the loss of your young cousin, W. Prayers of comfort and strength for you and her loved ones in your time of grief x

 

[JLZ]

OMG - TLZ - I had to go back to check if this was you writing this !
(Content chopped by me in the interest of available space!) but a great & honest article in my opinion.

It's my opinion that if someone is guilty of a crime ( and I'm not talking about stealing a lolly from the counter or even a dress from the rack).
I'm talking about crimes of personal & insidious attacks, invasion, fear, violence, kidnapping & death - and IMO the uncovering of that fact should be open to whatever means / skills are available.

I'm so often befuddled & befluxed as to why we, as a society, go all out to protect & provide for those who prey upon others. .. what message does that send ??

Sorry for confusion about the article, no. It's to be read in Gary's voice. I chopped it for brevity. I'm not sure whether GJ actually wrote it or gave an interview to the author who tidied it up. One bit I was sorry to leave out was a story where a long time ago he aggressively interviewed a suspect who was the partner of a victim and who turned out to be innocent. The man, I take it, was in the early stages of shock and grieving; a scary policeman trying to force a confession of what he hadn't done would have been overwhelming. Afterwards GJ went and apologized to the man. But the man said that the interrogation made him know that GJ was the right person to be investigating the crime. Because what he, the partner, wanted, was the murderer caught.

I'll probably come back to your main point later. I have to do a few things before the weather gets impossible.

 

[sosocurious]

Summons - Leave to Appeal: DAILYMAIL.COM AUSTRALIA PTY LTD v William Spedding
Party name(s) William Spedding
Date 01 Apr
Case number 2019/00010692

Search NSW Court Lists | NSW Online Registry

 

[Lemony]

Still on the subject of Jubes and his reported removal as lead detective of SFR, I think if the matter was anything more than peculiar to that particular team, he would no longer be lead detective of any other cases, let alone this one, (which is a Critical Incident Team investigation into a death during a police operation[1]):

View attachment 173383

Source:

Search NSW Court Lists | NSW Online Registry

[1]

Man shot by police in Sydney identified as 'devoted family man' David Petersen

It does seem that it's only linked to SFR.
According to the NBN report below the internal investigation will have no impact on his involvement in the Bowraville case.

Detective Chief Inspector Gary Jubelin may have been stood down from the William Tyrrell case, but the investigation into his alleged misconduct will not stop his fight for justice for the three Bowraville children murdered in the 90s.

INTERNAL INVESTIGATION WON’T IMPACT BOWRAVILLE MURDERS CASE - NBN News

 

[Warshawski]

It's a puzzle Sillybilly. IMO GJ is being punished for being high profile in the public eye. It seems it hasn't got anything to do with the actual case, more so his "team" not liking the way he does business. He's had one bust up, that we know of with the OIC of day to day business on SFR, more will come out I'm sure.

Those are questions we can’t know the answer to. Personally, I doubt if anything more will come of the accusation re Jubes’ phone.

I’m sorry for the loss of your young cousin, W. Prayers of comfort and strength for you and her loved ones in your time of grief x

Who knows Bo. In my opinion, society would do a whole lot better if Egos didn't have a part !

And Thank You for your kind thoughts & prayers... I was just posting my thoughts; I wasn't looking for, or expecting anything back. However, on receiving your sentiments, I realise just how much they mean Bo x