Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #41

[SouthAussie]

This is from an article published 03 January 2015, quoting Superintendent Paul Fehon, who was reported to be "lead investigator" and (later in the article) "one of the leading investigators":

"Everyone involved in the case and even those not involved still remain a possibility as having something to do with what has occurred."

So, presumably, IMO, it was only after that time (more than 3 months after William went missing) that police started eliminating anyone from the investigation.

- "Missing toddler William Tyrell victim of possible targeted kidnapping from Kendall", Daily Telegraph, 03 January 2015

Yes, I think the OIC was DI Hans Rupp at the time, with Fehon being lead investigator.

And while the Homicide squad were involved (took over) shortly after William disappeared, Jubes did not become OIC until a few days after Spedding's properties were searched.
Hans Rupp must have signed off on those particular searches then.

(ETA: Jubes took over in early Feb .... "Gary Jubelin, who took over this case in early February after the retirement of a colleague. " Australian Crime News)



THE homicide squad took over the investigation into the disappearance of William Tyrrell shortly after he went missing but are still not completely convinced the three-year-old is dead.

The Newcastle Herald can also reveal one of the state’s most respected homicide investigators, Detective Inspector Gary Jubelin, has taken over the lead role in the investigation just days after police searched two properties belonging to a local handyman.

Detective Inspector Jubelin, who has locked up some of the worst criminals in the state and was portrayed in an Underbelly series for his conviction of Anthony ‘‘Rooster’’ Perish, will now be the officer in charge following the retirement of Detective Inspector Hans Rupp.
Top investigator appointed in search for William Tyrrell

 

[stormbird]

Re PS: I don't think we've been told exactly when Benaroon Drive neighbour AMS went to his house, but that would establish when he was home to open the door:

AMS: "I went to [PS]’s house and knocked on the door and he came out and I said they were looking for a little boy....He came out and started looking,” she told the court. [PS] will also testify at the inquest.

- From a tweet by Lia Harris at the inquest, 26 March 2019, via a post by @UndiscoveredTruth (thank you!) thread #39, post #1335

Also via Lia Harris, in the article I linked earlier, AMS is quoted as saying: "I waited with her [i.e. FFC] while she called the police."

- "Missing toddler William Tyrell victim of possible targeted kidnapping from Kendall", Daily Telegraph, 03 January 2015

So, AMS can't have been knocking on PS's door at 10:56am (the time of the triple-0 call), and it would have taken a few minutes to walk or run between No.48 (where FFC was calling triple-0) and PS's house.

 

[SouthAussie]

if ps took william would he be strong enough to carry and quieten a wriggly little boy and would he just cross the road with him, just trying to picture the scenario, how would he explain to neighbours if they saw him or his son who may have been home?

Excerpts from my favourite article .... they don't exactly answer your questions, but they offer a scenario of a quick and friendly abduction.


You don’t take much notice of the odd person strolling along the street and they don’t notice you — why would they, after all?

No one sees you, and if they did, it wouldn’t be remarkable; you’re just going about your business. The only sound is the chirruping of birds. Ahead, on your right, a grass slope rises steeply, unfenced, from the road. You notice a child in a Spider-Man costume. There’s no one else around. It’s 10.30am on Friday, September 12, 2014.

“You are here,” he says as we look up through trees to the house, “and you see a three-year-old kid in a Spider-Man suit on the road and there’s no one else around. What do you do?” It’s pretty easy to establish a rapport with a little boy. G’day Spider-Man. How are you going? Where’s your mum?

Australian Crime News

 

[Wexford]

Mr Savage appears as a kind elderly man in this video, doesn't he? Not that kind elderly appearing men have not been involved in child exploitation of various kinds.

I am very interested to know what he was doing between 10:30-11:30am on the morning that William disappeared. Was he outside or inside during that time. What time his usual morning walk was. If anyone else was at his home at the time. What the loud/not loud radio questions were about. What the questions about what he was wearing were relating to.

Seems that the questions were more probing than if he had just witnessed something that morning.

Also the coroner asking for any MSM photos of the search on the first few days. At first I thought of the man with folded arms that was ruled out very early on (I won't provide link as it takes us down a path outside of TOS but it is easy to find) but I think now it is more information to verify that PS was (or wasn't) where he said he was. It seems nearly all the witnesses on the day were asked at the inquest about PS in some way.
Coroners Court requests news photos of hunt for William Tyrrell

 

[SouthAussie]

Re PS: I don't think we've been told exactly when Benaroon Drive neighbour AMS went to his house, but that would establish when he was home to open the door:

AMS: "I went to [PS]’s house and knocked on the door and he came out and I said they were looking for a little boy....He came out and started looking,” she told the court. [PS] will also testify at the inquest.

- From a tweet by Lia Harris at the inquest, 26 March 2019, via a post by @UndiscoveredTruth (thank you!) thread #39, post #1335

Also via Lia Harris, in the article I linked earlier, AMS is quoted as saying: "I waited with her [i.e. FFC] while she called the police."

- "Missing toddler William Tyrell victim of possible targeted kidnapping from Kendall", Daily Telegraph, 03 January 2015

So, AMS can't have been knocking on PS's door at 10:56am (the time of the triple-0 call), and it would have taken a few minutes to walk or run between No.48 (where FFC was calling triple-0) and PS's house.

Yes, we did some calcs based on MSM articles earlier on. I think we guessed that Savage may have answered the door at around 11:30am. I don't know if you might come to the same conclusion if you look at all of the times offered from different persons in different articles.

And we are not sure if his door was knocked at before then, with it being unanswered at that time. (Possibly why there were questions at the inquest about a loud radio? Did he say his radio was up loud so he didn't hear a prior knock at the door, or FD yelling for William in the neighbourhood outside?)

 

[JLZ]

Re PS: I don't think we've been told exactly when Benaroon Drive neighbour AMS went to his house, but that would establish when he was home to open the door:

AMS: "I went to [PS]’s house and knocked on the door and he came out and I said they were looking for a little boy....He came out and started looking,” she told the court. [PS] will also testify at the inquest.

- From a tweet by Lia Harris at the inquest, 26 March 2019, via a post by @UndiscoveredTruth (thank you!) thread #39, post #1335

Also via Lia Harris, in the article I linked earlier, AMS is quoted as saying: "I waited with her [i.e. FFC] while she called the police."

- "Missing toddler William Tyrell victim of possible targeted kidnapping from Kendall", Daily Telegraph, 03 January 2015

So, AMS can't have been knocking on PS's door at 10:56am (the time of the triple-0 call), and it would have taken a few minutes to walk or run between No.48 (where FFC was calling triple-0) and PS's house.

AMS was down the other end of Benaroon, where she spoke to lawn mower man, when police arrived, which would have been from 11:05. So I've got her knocking on PS's door and also speaking to Mrs C who called out from her balcony, at about 11, after which PS joined the search--whatever that may mean.

 

[SouthAussie]

AMS was down the other end of Benaroon, where she spoke to lawn mower man, when police arrived, which would have been from 11:05. So I've got her knocking on PS's door at about 11, after which he joined the search--whatever that may mean.

See, the way that different minds work. Brainstorming this kind of stuff is good.

We had her knocking (and the door being answered) after being at the other end of the street.
I cannot remember why at the moment - the convo happened quite a while ago. If I can find the convo later on, I will post the reasons why here.

 

[JLZ]

See, the way that different minds work. We had her knocking (and the door being answered) after being at the other end of the street.
I cannot remember why at the moment - the convo happened quite a while ago. If I can find the convo later on, I will post the reasons why here.

FFC and AMS were knocking on LH's door at 11:30. I think at one point I misread that and thought it was PS's door, and then corrected what I had posted. I think 11 is right for PS, at least that that was reported, because I wasn't adding speculative times to my timeline. I'd have to do some rereading to find the source--perhaps I will.

 

[sleepinoz]

If this article is chronologically correct, I'd say after 11:30 - but it's probably not.


Ms Heslop called to her children out back, but they hadn't seen another kid. It was 11.30am.

"All three of us started searching through the front yard, the side of the house and the backyard and the bush that borders the properties around here."

One of the women came to Paul Savage's front door, screaming that William was missing, and he immediately joined the search.

The day William Tyrrell vanished

 

[sosocurious]

Cash rows splits Where’s William? organisations

NoCookies | The Australian

Points
* A dispute over $$ has split two organisations. Insight Communications and Bravehearts.
* The disputed has disrupted this years Whers's William? fund raising efforts.
* It will be in NSW District court 17 July.
* Wheres William is not a legal charity and can not collect donations. A partnership with Bravehearts to raise funds in William's name was struck in 2015.
* Insights conducted it's work on Where's William? pro bono.
* Last week the Where's William campaign donation link was inactive. It is now again active and donations will now be channelled through the Morcombe Foundation.
* It is understood the $$'s dispute is not over Where's William. The dispute is said to be over Insight not being paid by Braveheart for work done on other campaigns - more generally parent education about child safety.

 

[SouthAussie]

If this article is chronologically correct, I'd say after 11:30 - but it's probably not.

Ms Heslop called to her children out back, but they hadn't seen another kid. It was 11.30am.
"All three of us started searching through the front yard, the side of the house and the backyard and the bush that borders the properties around here."
One of the women came to Paul Savage's front door, screaming that William was missing, and he immediately joined the search.
The day William Tyrrell vanished

Just found the same thing. I think that the article is written in chronogical order in each of its segments (as it speaks of each person individually. As in Anne-Maree, the FD, the Wilsons .... ). This particular part just flows right on from the Anne-Maree/Judy Heslop portion.

Neighbour Lydene Heslop heard a knock at her door, which she opened to Anne-Maree from up the road and William's foster mother.
Ms Heslop called to her children out back, but they hadn't seen another kid. It was 11.30am.
"All three of us started searching through the front yard, the side of the house and the backyard and the bush that borders the properties around here."
One of the women came to Paul Savage's front door, screaming that William was missing, and he immediately joined the search.
"I went uphill by myself looking for him," Mr Savage told news.com.au.
"I've gone up thinking he's around here.
"We thought, he's just run off somewhere, which is a natural thing and hopeful thing to do.
"There's a track up through the bush. I walk up to there nearly every day."

The day William Tyrrell vanished

 

[SouthAussie]

It sounds as if Mr Savage initially went uphill searching for William - by himself - and then later states that William disappeared down the road, and that the police kept popping back (to see him?)


"I went uphill by myself looking for him," Mr Savage told news.com.au.
The day William Tyrrell vanished

“The police were excellent in everything they did and they kept it up and kept popping back.
“(But) somebody somehow managed to get him and disappeared down the road.
“I don’t know how it happened of course. He’s been taken to a place unknown.
What happened on the day William Tyrrell vanished?

 

[SouthAussie]

A few more comments and pics from Mr Savage ... from earlier days.
Sometimes I wonder if the media knew things that we hadn't yet twigged onto.


"If he had wandered, he would have been found," Savage says.
"When I go for a walk you still find yourself keeping an eye out, hoping for a scream or a yell and not a horrible smell.
"I don't know how his family has coped, it must be torture for them."
William TYRELL
Oct 2014

The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age Photos - NCH WK END MAG. The town of Kendall is still reeling from the disappearance of young boy William Tyrell from his grandma's yard.
Oct 2014


“Very few people around here knew him and his sister, not many of us, just two little kids visiting,” Mr Savage told news.com.au.
“They wouldn’t go wandering. They would stay close to their grandmother.
“You’d never see them unless you were walking or driving past.”
What happened on the day William Tyrrell vanished?
Dec 2018

 

[sosocurious]

Hunt for Bowraville children’s killer has defined me, says Jubelin
NoCookies | The Australian

Exclusive by Dan Box.

His book Bowraville will be out this week


In an interview before he was charged by his own police force, for breaching Surveillance and Device Act.
* GJ discussed his fear of failure and his acceptance others in the force called him zealot.
* GJ said he has been defined by his work investigating murders and came to prominence in - Underbelly.
* GJ has resigned from the force and will leave on the 12 July. He said despite the personal toll he did not want to leave the force or leave the open cases in which he had come to know victims families.

Police are trained not to let work become personal, but “you can’t do it and not get personal”, said Mr Jubelin. “If you’re going to do something, get involved.”

 

[CuriousCritter]

A few more comments and pics from Mr Savage ... from earlier days.
Sometimes I wonder if the media knew things that we hadn't yet twigged onto.


"If he had wandered, he would have been found," Savage says.
"When I go for a walk you still find yourself keeping an eye out, hoping for a scream or a yell and not a horrible smell.
"I don't know how his family has coped, it must be torture for them."
William TYRELL
Oct 2014

The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age Photos - NCH WK END MAG. The town of Kendall is still reeling from the disappearance of young boy William Tyrell from his grandma's yard.
Oct 2014


“Very few people around here knew him and his sister, not many of us, just two little kids visiting,” Mr Savage told news.com.au.
“They wouldn’t go wandering. They would stay close to their grandmother.
“You’d never see them unless you were walking or driving past.”
What happened on the day William Tyrrell vanished?
Dec 2018

Maybe PS or an associate to him was always the main focus of the investigation and BS was just the smokescreen, while LE watched PS the whole time.

I wonder were those cars linked to someone close to PS who appears to be a car enthusiasts. I've seen several pics of cars parked in PS's yard...all my hypothetical thinking at the moment

 

[SouthAussie]

Hunt for Bowraville children’s killer has defined me, says Jubelin
NoCookies | The Australian

Exclusive by Dan Box.

His book Bowraville will be out this week


In an interview before he was charged by his own police force, for breaching Surveillance and Device Act.
* GJ discussed his fear of failure and his acceptance others in the force called him zealot.
* GJ said he has been defined by his work investigating murders and came to prominence in - Underbelly.
* GJ has resigned from the force and will leave on the 12 July. He said despite the personal toll he did not want to leave the force or leave the open cases in which he had come to know victims families.

Police are trained not to let work become personal, but “you can’t do it and not get personal”, said Mr Jubelin. “If you’re going to do something, get involved.”

Did you see that The Australian also has another article about Jubes today?
Relevance? This is the man who was fighting so hard for little William.


This article (a VERY long one with lots of detail), also by Dan Box, speaks of Jubes seeming to see 'outside himself' even before his resignation from the force.
Jubes had asked to meet Dan at a cafe near police headquarters in Parramatta (last Spring).
He wanted to speak about 3 murders. The Bowraville 3 murders.
Dan said that it is the first time that a detective has ever come to him for a story, it is usually the other way around.

Jubes ordered a green tea, then proceeded to speak in detail of the murders.
Jubes thinks he knows who killed the children (no name provided) - says the murderer is smart, has rat cunning, and no formal education.

It is the first time Dan has ever met Jubes in person.
Dan has been told by another detective if it was you who had been murdered, it is Jubes that you would want to investigate. Jubes is not perfect, but he pushes hard, and he is single minded.

Jubes took Dan into the headquarters, and into the Homicide squad room.
He allows Dan to look through two boxes of Bowraville Murders items.
Jubes believes there is evidence to convict the murderer, but there have been mistakes, and people don't care.

Later Dan visited Bowraville himself, was told by one of the victim's aunts that they are supposed to believe that 3 people came into town and happened to take 3 children from the same town.
Dan then decided to make a podcast about the murders.

Dan spoke with Jerry Bowden, a decade-long colleague of Jubes. Jerry becomes enraged at Jubes pushing so hard, demanding resources from elsewhere, burning the road behind him - but he also respects that very much. He said many people who have worked with Jubes no longer speak to him.

Dan is boxing with Jubes at the gym. Asks Jubes who is he fighting. Jubes says the justice system. Trying to get justice, trying to fight racism, trying to fight cultural ignorance, trying to fight poor past practices.

Jubes said he didn't want to leave the force, he didn't want to leave the Bowraville investigation, he made a commitment to the families.

Jubes is also currently going through his 2nd divorce, his wife wanted him to leave the force and move to Perth.

NoCookies | The Australian
The fight of his life
The Weekend Australian - Saturday, June 29, 2019

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe PS or an associate to him was always the main focus of the investigation and BS was just the smokescreen, while LE watched PS the whole time.

I wonder were those cars linked to someone close to PS who appears to be a car enthusiasts. I've seen several pics of cars parked in PS's yard...all my hypothetical thinking at the moment

Well, something spurred Hans Rupp to require Spedding to be searched so intensively, to put all the manhours and resources into digging up his firepit, draining his septic system, searching the rabbit warren under his rented house, taking his office items away for forensic examination.

He must have had something that allowed a search warrant for all of that.
I'm not sure that they can just use a person as a smokescreen, with the media jumping all over the searches.

But it does seem that MSM were busy also taking photos of Savage with his birds eye view of the side of FGM's house, and asking him for comment on various related matters, within one month (and continuing thereafter) of William's disappearance.

 

[interested64]

looking at these pics

A few more comments and pics from Mr Savage ... from earlier days.
Sometimes I wonder if the media knew things that we hadn't yet twigged onto.


"If he had wandered, he would have been found," Savage says.
"When I go for a walk you still find yourself keeping an eye out, hoping for a scream or a yell and not a horrible smell.
"I don't know how his family has coped, it must be torture for them."
William TYRELL
Oct 2014

The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age Photos - NCH WK END MAG. The town of Kendall is still reeling from the disappearance of young boy William Tyrell from his grandma's yard.
Oct 2014


“Very few people around here knew him and his sister, not many of us, just two little kids visiting,” Mr Savage told news.com.au.
“They wouldn’t go wandering. They would stay close to their grandmother.
“You’d never see them unless you were walking or driving past.”
What happened on the day William Tyrrell vanished?
Dec 2018

looking at these pictures you cant see the house..seeing this makes you see how easy it happened if he was snatched

 

[CuriousCritter]

Well, something spurred Hans Rupp to require Spedding to be searched so intensively, to put all the manhours and resources into digging up his firepit, draining his septic system, searching the rabbit warren under his rented house, taking his office items away for forensic examination.

He must have had something that allowed a search warrant for all of that.
I'm not sure that they can just use a person as a smokescreen, with the media jumping all over the searches.

But it does seem that MSM were busy also taking photos of Savage with his birds eye view of the side of FGM's house, and asking him for comment on various related matters, within one month (and continuing thereafter) of William's disappearance.

With LE knowing BS had been to FGM house for the washing machine and then BS having to have a plumber attend his house due to a red shirt being stuck in the drain/septic...I would think that would be more then enough evidence to get a warrant to take out the intensive search they did...But maybe absolutely zilch came from that intensive search, so LE pressured with the historical charges hoping he'll crack...But nope still nothing, all while the REAL culprit was and probably is sitting make all smug thinking they've got away with it...But tick tock, tick tock, I think the coroner's gunna catch you

 

[SouthAussie]

looking at these pics

looking at these pictures you cant see the house..seeing this makes you see how easy it happened if he was snatched

Yes, if William ran down that slope, as little children like to do ... he would have been right near that roadside, completely unseen from the house, and anyone there could have quietly spirited William away in the friendliest of manners.