Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #41

[purpleandgreen]

Both sets of parents want the same thing, the children. Both sets of parents are cleared for being where they said they were at the time WT disappeared, but relatives and associates are not at this stage.

BBM. But sadly not both sets of parents were in a fit state to care for the children at that time. Otherwise, they would not have been in care in the first place. Poor little kids.

 

[SouthAussie]

Was Spedding found not guilty? One of the interesting things about the article Soso linked NoCookies | The Australian is that it said all the historical charges were either dismissed or dropped. He did go to trial on some of the charges, from memory. Is "found not guilty" a possible meaning of "dismissed"? I wouldn't have thought so, but I don't exactly know. I'm thinking perhaps the jury were unable to agree and it was decided not to attempt a retrial.

I would have to go back and listen to the first episode of the podcast again to give you a definite marker in the podcast of where you can find that info, or you could listen to the episode and give us the marker.
Pretty sure that it is that episode where they speak of him being found not guilty. Possibly it could be in the 'on the couch' interview with Lia Harris that I linked earlier. I know I have heard it fairly recently, within the last few weeks, and those are the only things I have listened to about this case.

The dropped charges refer to the Vic charges. The Vic DPP needed tendency evidence from the first trial.

It is unfortunate that there are no transcripts available for the podcasts. Would be a heck of a lot easier than having to find the right spot for the info.

 

[purpleandgreen]

At times I have considered a FACS worker or Agency insider was involved in manipulating the facts about the bio parents' alleged actions to ensure these siblings were taken into OHC with the next step the siblings being given to a set of foster parents by the FACS or Agency worker, who knew the fcarers were keen on children that would present as perfect for long term / adoption.

There are loads of children left with bio parents that have far far worse history than the siblings' parents. And there are OHC carer's that have foster children living in deplorable conditions and known to FACS/Agency workers.

The fact the female sibling was removed from bio parents at 3 months of age in 2010 and placed with various foster carers and William's removal at 9 months 2012 with foster carers involved with OHC since 2011 the birth year of William just doesn't sit right.

And the fact the foster carers appear to have had previous knowledge the 2 siblings 'were in the wing' just seems to strike a (bad) chord with me.

I am not saying the foster parents were aware of any alleged behind the scene manipulation.

BBM Then who are you suggesting was? And could you please supply links to support all of your above allegations & theories? TIA.

 

[papertrail]

BBM Then who are you suggesting was? And could you please supply links to support all of your above allegations & theories? TIA.

A theory is a theory...can't link you to my brain.

 

[Sillybilly]

No need to address every single post. Scroll and roll folks, and tone down the attitudes in here please.

 

[purpleandgreen]

A theory is a theory...can't link you to my brain.

Sorry, I should possibly have been more specific. So I’ll say links for your allegations, since allegations need to be based on facts, and theories also arise from facts as presented. All theories must have a sound basis; must be derived from something. That’s the links I was asking for. Again, apologies fir not being clearer earlier.

 

[sleepinoz]

I would have to go back and listen to the first episode of the podcast again to give you a definite marker in the podcast of where you can find that info, or you could listen to the episode and give us the marker.
Pretty sure that it is that episode where they speak of him being found not guilty. Possibly it could be in the 'on the couch' interview with Lia Harris that I linked earlier. I know I have heard it fairly recently, within the last few weeks, and those are the only things I have listened to about this case.

The dropped charges refer to the Vic charges. The Vic DPP needed tendency evidence from the first trial.

It is unfortunate that there are no transcripts available for the podcasts. Would be a heck of a lot easier than having to find the right spot for the info.

I don't think the Podcast has mentioned BS in that sense as yet.

The only mention of BS's historical charges lately have been by Caroline Overington in the Australian article. But Not Guilty has never been mentioned AFAIK

All those charges have since been dismissed, or dropped

NoCookies | The Australian

 

[frogwell]

I don't think the Podcast has mentioned BS in that sense as yet.

The only mention of BS's historical charges lately have been by Caroline Overington in the Australian article. But Not Guilty has never been mentioned AFAIK

All those charges have since been dismissed, or dropped

NoCookies | The Australian

Can a judge in a stand alone trial just dismiss the charges on the grounds that there is insufficient evidence to proceed, thereby not making a finding, so not "not guilty" and not an acquittal? The police dropped certain charges and the ones they brought to court were dismissed?

 

[sleepinoz]

Can a judge in a stand alone trial just dismiss the charges on the grounds that there is insufficient evidence to proceed, thereby not making a finding, so not "not guilty" and not an acquittal? The police dropped certain charges and the ones they brought to court were dismissed?

Whatever the scenario, Dismissed and Dropped isn't Not Guilty and specifically it isn't Innocent.

 

[SouthAussie]

For whoever asked about why the FP did the podcast, this is why:


LIA HARRIS: So, there’s been some recent developments in the police investigation that has sort of changed things for them, and we’ll explain more about that as we go along. But, they always have been very private, they always shied away from speaking publicly, but they really want this podcast to shine some new light on the case, and just go some way to finding some answers. And they’ve done this for him (William), at the end of the day this is his story, and that’s what they’re doing it for.

About ½ way through the video.
https://10play.com.au/studio-10/new...dlers-foster-parents-speak-out/tpv190625mbgte

 

[JLZ]

Can a judge in a stand alone trial just dismiss the charges on the grounds that there is insufficient evidence to proceed, thereby not making a finding, so not "not guilty" and not an acquittal? The police dropped certain charges and the ones they brought to court were dismissed?

I'm having trouble sorting this out. It seems there are different types of dismissal and some allow for reprosecution and others don't.

 

[papertrail]

Sorry, I should possibly have been more specific. So I’ll say links for your allegations, since allegations need to be based on facts, and theories also arise from facts as presented. All theories must have a sound basis; must be derived from something. That’s the links I was asking for. Again, apologies fir not being clearer earlier.

I commenced my initial post with...at times I have considered.

You have stated that you believe an 'allegation' must be based on fact. I do not believe this to be correct. I was putting across a theory and that was in reply to something that Frogwell had posted and my discussion was in context to that post.

The meaning of allegation I consider is correct from my understanding is

allegation
/alɪˈɡeɪʃ(ə)n/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. a claim or assertion that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically one made without proof.
   "he made allegations of corruption against the administration"

Happy to move on.

 

[frogwell]

Whatever the scenario, Dismissed and Dropped isn't Not Guilty and specifically it isn't Innocent.

Well my thinking is that if it didn't go to trial, it was not deemed valid to begin with or if charges are dropped, then they weren't valid either. Could that not be one interpretation of dimissal and dropped? Another way of saying, there was nothing of substance in it to begin with when scutinised in a court setting?

 

[papertrail]

Regarding court matters regarding Spedding I have found this information. Unfortunately the remaining part of the article is paywalled.

https://amp-theaustralian-com-au.cd...e/news-story/9b98d96a3dbc4a8101e74fce96668fc2



A key witness in the case against Bill Spedding has been described as “obsessive, compulsive and bizarre” by a judge, who said she had a history of making similar allegations against men, court documents reveal.

This article is dated 27 June 2015. I do not know which State's court this article is referring to.

Then there is this article 're Victorian court matter. Again paywalled. The below text that shows on Google search is different than text that shows on paywalled version.

dailytelegraph


10 Aug 2018 · ... child sex abuse charges against him dismissed in a Victorian court. ... “I will mark all charges as withdrawn,” Magistrate Ronald ...

I understand that when charges are withdrawn at times it means there was sufficient evidence to proceed, the charges are then withdrawn and that then leaves the possibility of further charges being instituted if further evidence becomes available.










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Unlock access to

 

[sleepinoz]

Well my thinking is that if it didn't go to trial, it was not deemed valid to begin with or if charges are dropped, then they weren't valid either. Could that not be one interpretation of dimissal and dropped? Another way of saying, there was nothing of substance in it to begin with when scutinised in a court setting?

Not Valid is not necessarily the correct way to put it, IMO. The DPP would ensure that the charge was valid prior to laying charges. IMO

It is more that there isn't enough evidence, not that there isn't any evidence.

Charges can be dismissed or dropped due to many reason, a witness doesn't want to testify, a witness is now deceased etc etc.

My point was, that he was NOT found Innocent at all.

 

[JLZ]

Well my thinking is that if it didn't go to trial, it was not deemed valid to begin with or if charges are dropped, then they weren't valid either. Could that not be one interpretation of dimissal and dropped? Another way of saying, there was nothing of substance in it to begin with when scutinised in a court setting?

There is also a type of dismissal where the court finds a person guilty but does not proceed to conviction. I hope that wouldn't apply to child rape.

 

[JLZ]

Regarding court matters regarding Spedding I have found this information. Unfortunately the remaining part of the article is paywalled.

https://amp-theaustralian-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/nation/nation/witness-against-bill-spedding-described-as-bizarre-obsessive/news-story/9b98d96a3dbc4a8101e74fce96668fc2?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQA#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/nation/witness-against-bill-spedding-described-as-bizarre-obsessive/news-story/9b98d96a3dbc4a8101e74fce96668fc2



A key witness in the case against Bill Spedding has been described as “obsessive, compulsive and bizarre” by a judge, who said she had a history of making similar allegations against men, court documents reveal.

This article is dated 27 June 2015. I do not know which State's court this article is referring to.

Then there is this article 're Victorian court matter. Again paywalled. The below text that shows on Google search is different than text that shows on paywalled version.

dailytelegraph


10 Aug 2018 · ... child sex abuse charges against him dismissed in a Victorian court. ... “I will mark all charges as withdrawn,” Magistrate Ronald ...

I understand that when charges are withdrawn at times it means there was sufficient evidence to proceed, the charges are then withdrawn and that then leaves the possibility of further charges being instituted if further evidence becomes available.










Already a subscriber?

Unlock access to

Thank you for the 10 Aug 2018 quotation. Yes, it sounds like an application of this:

(1) If a matter is withdrawn by the prosecutor, the matter is taken to be dismissed and the accused person is taken to be discharged in relation to the offences concerned. (2) The dismissal of a matter because of its withdrawal by the prosecutor does not prevent any later proceedings in any court for the same matter against the same person.
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE ACT 1986 - SECT 208 Dismissal of matter if matter withdrawn

 

[deugirtni]

Just wondering.. if the charges against GJ get dropped or dismissed, will we be game to consider that perhaps he really must be still guilty and that perhaps there just wasn't enough evidence?

 

[interested64]

Regarding court matters regarding Spedding I have found this information. Unfortunately the remaining part of the article is paywalled.

https://amp-theaustralian-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theaustralian.com.au/nation/nation/witness-against-bill-spedding-described-as-bizarre-obsessive/news-story/9b98d96a3dbc4a8101e74fce96668fc2?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQA#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/nation/witness-against-bill-spedding-described-as-bizarre-obsessive/news-story/9b98d96a3dbc4a8101e74fce96668fc2



A key witness in the case against Bill Spedding has been described as “obsessive, compulsive and bizarre” by a judge, who said she had a history of making similar allegations against men, court documents reveal.

This article is dated 27 June 2015. I do not know which State's court this article is referring to.

Then there is this article 're Victorian court matter. Again paywalled. The below text that shows on Google search is different than text that shows on paywalled version.

dailytelegraph


10 Aug 2018 · ... child sex abuse charges against him dismissed in a Victorian court. ... “I will mark all charges as withdrawn,” Magistrate Ronald ...

I understand that when charges are withdrawn at times it means there was sufficient evidence to proceed, the charges are then withdrawn and that then leaves the possibility of further charges being instituted if further evidence becomes available.










Already a subscriber?

Unlock access to

well he had tried to use the other locked up man and that failed,im curious if BS and JJH were mates and then he met his wife..or the other way around

 

[deugirtni]

There is also a type of dismissal where the court finds a person guilty but does not proceed to conviction. I hope that wouldn't apply to child rape.

'Guilty' would be a verdict reached after a trial, which presumably said trial wouldn't have been dismissed, else no 'guilty' verdict would have been possible. Do you have an example of a court finding a person 'guilty', but yet without 'convicting' the person? Those things seem contradictory.