Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #41

[2cents2]

I'm enjoying it, too.

I was wondering today if the recent developments are that Jubes is not on the case any more, and the FP confidence has flagged because of that. So they felt the need to get the podcast done and have people really get to know William's story.

Lia said in her 'on the couch' interview that the charges happened during the making of the podcast, but I think Jubes may have been taken off the case prior to the podcast. Not sure.

Yes, I was thinking the same. Also, I was wondering if the change in the direction of the investigation (shift to different suspects) could be a part of it too? It will be interesting to see.

 

[Thebottomline]

The connection was thru BS sister married JJH wasn't it? And BS once lived with a woman in Cambelltown who bears the 1st and 2nd name as his current wife's cousin.

BS was married to JJH sister . Been discussed here many times. The company some seek hey

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, I was thinking the same. Also, I was wondering if the change in the direction of the investigation (shift to different suspects) could be a part of it too? It will be interesting to see.

I am not sure that the investigation has shifted directions - re: suspects.

I am pretty sure that Jubes is in trouble for recording Mr Savage. I have seen that in two articles.
And in other articles, I have seen that he recorded a key person of interest.

The two people that we know of at the inquest are Spedding and Savage.
Of course, there could be others. But if there are, MSM has not leaked that, and the witness list will have been released to interested parties by now (due on 1st July).

 

[2cents2]

S

I think Jubes defence might hinge around something like this.
Perhaps protecting himself by showing that there was no coercion, manipulation, bullying or harassment in the conversations.


In addition, it is not an offence to record a private conversation to which a person is a party if:
– is reasonably necessary for the protection of the lawful interests of that principal party

The Law in NSW: Recording Conversations

Surely, surely, surely you would think a detective of Jubelin's pedigree wouldn't do anything to jeopardise potential evidence? And surely, he would be across all the legalities of evidence collection etc.... right? If not, Houston, we have a problem!

 

[CuriousCritter]

Yes, you are right. I just listened to the whole first episode again, and its not there.

I did notice this couple of snippets though. Things we had wondered about before .....


LIA HARRIS: He (Jubes) will argue in court that he had a lawful reason for the recordings.

LIA HARRIS: So, Jane asked her mother about the broken washing machine again, and she was told that she called a repairman from an ad in the local paper …..

LIA HARRIS: He (Jubes) will argue in court that he had a lawful reason for the recordings.

Was this mentioned in the 1st podcast?


I haven't listened to any episodes yet

 

[SouthAussie]

LIA HARRIS: He (Jubes) will argue in court that he had a lawful reason for the recordings.

Was this mentioned in the 1st podcast?


I haven't listened to any episodes yet

Yes it is - the first episode. I missed it the first time I listened, but when I listened again tonight I made a couple of notes about things I missed. That was one of them.

 

[2cents2]

I am not sure that the investigation has shifted directions - re: suspects.

I am pretty sure that Jubes is in trouble for recording Mr Savage. I have seen that in two articles.
And in others article, I have seen that he recorded a key person of interest.

The two people that we know of at the inquest are Spedding and Savage.
Of course, there could be others. But if there are, MSM has not leaked that, and the witness list will have been released to interested parties by now (due on 1st July).

Right, appreciate your insight, thank you SA.

 

[CuriousCritter]

Yes it is. I missed it the first time I listened, but when I listened again tonight I made a couple of notes about things I missed. That was one of them.

Ok thanks so if the podcast was recorded prior to charges being laid on GJ, how did Lia know about the illegal recordings to say GJ will be fighting the charges in court??

 

[SouthAussie]

Ok thanks so if the podcast was recorded prior to charges being laid on GJ, how did Lia know about the illegal recordings to say GJ will be fighting the charges in court??

Good point. Maybe the podcast is the way that the FP are trying to help their own situation of their son being missing. Maybe their confidence has flagged, after all. I know that we have heard absolutely nothing from DCI Laidlaw, who is now in charge of the investigation.
Unless they had heard before we did that the top dogs were charging Jubes, or considering it. And Jubes gave informal comment. Apparently it took weeks for the top dogs to decide.


This article says that the top brass deliberated for weeks on whether or not to charge him. (paraphrased)
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
Jubelin charged over breaches to Listening Devices Act
June 21, 2019 9:02am

 

[2cents2]

Ok thanks so if the podcast was recorded prior to charges being laid on GJ, how did Lia know about the illegal recordings to say GJ will be fighting the charges in court??

I’m assuming the podcast has been months in the making and it would still be updated with new information as the episodes are being released. It is not static, they can add things and make changes anytime they like.

GJ side-lined from case: Feb 2019
GJ quits: May 2019
News of GJ charged: 20 June 2019
First episode released: 23 June 2019

So they had a few days to add the information about GJ.

For ref, about GJ planning to fight the charges in the podcast is mentioned at 7:40 on...

7:40: BELLING: “So an extraordinary development as we are recording this episode with Gary Jubelin….” (ref: The Little Boy in the Spiderman Suit)

 

[Deleted member 102539]

In episode 1 of the podcast, they make a strong point of saying that it's hard to imagine that the abduction could have been planned which I’m not sure I agree with.

11:45 BELLING: “… a critical piece of this puzzle is the fact that they actually went up to Kendall early. They decided at the last minute to leave on Thursday night rather than go on Friday as initially planned.”

And then they go on, because of this critical “snap decision” to leave earlier,

12:50 HARRIS: “It makes it very difficult to imagine that someone could have planned the abduction knowing that they would be there.”

I think William’s abduction could still have been planned but just enacted earlier, opportunistically. It’s not like they weren’t expected that Friday. They were expected that Friday, they just arrived earlier on Thursday evening. Someone could have seen their car arrive at the house on Thursday evening. Someone could have seen their car at the house very early on Friday morning before they got up. We know the children were heard playing by neighbours on Friday morning:

“Judy Wilson, whose property was just metres from William's grandmother's yard, heard the two children playing before she took off to run errands in town.” (ref: The day William Tyrrell vanished)

We also know that they were probably seen by someone in a car when they were out riding their bicycles in the driveway on Friday morning:

“William and his sister were riding their bicycles in the property's driveway, when a car drove past, did a U-turn in a neighbour's driveway and drove off.” (ref: The day William Tyrrell vanished)

What’s more, they are known in the area.

PS had certainly seen them before:

“(PS) had seen the little boy named William and his sister, who came to stay with their grandmother directly across the road, only occasionally” (ref: The day William Tyrrell vanished)

They visited Kendall often enough for the kids to have their own toys at the house:

10:50 HARRIS: “…they had been to Kendall many times before with both of the kids. The kids had their own toys there, they knew the house so it was a pretty normal weekend.”

Specifically, they visited every few months, half a dozen times in total:

11:07 FF: “It might be once every three or four months especially Nanna’s birthday or an occasion or also, just a good time to catch up. So probably half a dozen times”

And they don't just stay indoors when they are there, they go outside to play. Plus, they have attended a Street Party:

11:21 FM: “We would go out, I mean they were young so quite limited in what you do with young children. And there was a street party so we went to the street party (inaudible), Christmas party. But it was more, family oriented rather than go out and engage with lots of people.”

So, a long post, basically just to say that I can imagine that the abduction was yes, enacted opportunistically (aren’t most?) but it could also have been planned. And I'm not sure arriving on Thursday is that "critical".

Podcast episode 1 ref: The Little Boy in the Spiderman Suit. Rough transcriptions above are my own.

bbm

.... but I finally would want to know, why the "surprise visit" wasn't really a surprise visit and why they arrived on Thursday instead of Friday, if they obviously had trouble to place their cats into care on time. They could have stayed until on Friday MFC had done his Sky conference, if it was so important. I don't drive hundreds of miles in a hurry, if I know, there is no good internet connection and I will have a huge problem the next morning with my business liabilities. It doesn't make sense, IMO.

Second I would want to know, why of all documents (at inquest) the contract with pet care was edited so much .... Which secrets did the contract contain? Name and address of the pet owner - what else?

One and the other is incomprehensible to me. IMO MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

bbm

.... but I finally would want to know, why the "surprise visit" wasn't really a surprise visit and why they arrived on Thursday instead of Friday, if they obviously had trouble to place their cats into care on time. They could have stayed until on Friday MFC had done his Sky conference, if it was so important. I don't drive hundreds of miles in a hurry, if I know, there is no good internet connection and I will have a huge problem the next morning with my business liabilities. It doesn't make sense, IMO.

Second I would want to know, why of all documents (at inquest) the contract with pet care was edited so much .... Which secrets did the contract contain? Name and address of the pet owner - what else?

One and the other is incomprehensible to me. IMO MOO

Have you listened to the podcasts? They provide answers to your questions.

Also, in Australia we could drive hundreds of kilometres for a hamburger, if the mood strikes us. Distance is not a big thing to most Aussies. We go as far for a couple of days stay as many Europeans go for a summer holiday.

 

[papertrail]

Yes, I was thinking the same. Also, I was wondering if the change in the direction of the investigation (shift to different suspects) could be a part of it too? It will be interesting to see.

Is it actually a shift to different suspects or a shift to someone not previously considered a POI or suspect?

Lots of people appear to have been cleared previously ....like anyone in the vicinity in the day if disappearance? so has policeinvestigatirs with fresh eyes and minds focus changed in their re- examination process.

 

[Bohemian]

<rsbm>

Second I would want to know, why of all documents (at inquest) the contract with pet care was edited so much .... Which secrets did the contract contain? Name and address of the pet owner - what else?

One and the other is incomprehensible to me. IMO MOO

I don’t remember a copy of the contract between the cat boarding company and the FP’s tendered in evidence at the inquest being published in MSM. Could you post a link to and/or copy of the document please FG?

FWIW when I’ve gone away and had my companion animals boarded, all I have to give the company is my contact phone number in case of an emergency, not tell them the intimate details of my trip.

 

[papertrail]

bbm

.... but I finally would want to know, why the "surprise visit" wasn't really a surprise visit and why they arrived on Thursday instead of Friday, if they obviously had trouble to place their cats into care on time. They could have stayed until on Friday MFC had done his Sky conference, if it was so important. I don't drive hundreds of miles in a hurry, if I know, there is no good internet connection and I will have a huge problem the next morning with my business liabilities. It doesn't make sense, IMO.

Second I would want to know, why of all documents (at inquest) the contract with pet care was edited so much .... Which secrets did the contract contain? Name and address of the pet owner - what else?

One and the other is incomprehensible to me. IMO MOO

When did sale of FGM house go through? From memory it was shortly before the disappearance. Given FGM was elderly and not well and in recovery from hospital admission and mentioned in an interview by FFC previously ...possibly 60 minutes from memory, were the fcarers helping her with sale and settlement and may be packing up? Was the Skype call something to do with FGM house sale?

I understand you concerns.

 

[papertrail]

In episode 1 of the podcast, they make a strong point of saying that it's hard to imagine that the abduction could have been planned which I’m not sure I agree with.

11:45 BELLING: “… a critical piece of this puzzle is the fact that they actually went up to Kendall early. They decided at the last minute to leave on Thursday night rather than go on Friday as initially planned.”

And then they go on, because of this critical “snap decision” to leave earlier,

12:50 HARRIS: “It makes it very difficult to imagine that someone could have planned the abduction knowing that they would be there.”

I think William’s abduction could still have been planned but just enacted earlier, opportunistically. It’s not like they weren’t expected that Friday. They were expected that Friday, they just arrived earlier on Thursday evening. Someone could have seen their car arrive at the house on Thursday evening. Someone could have seen their car at the house very early on Friday morning before they got up. We know the children were heard playing by neighbours on Friday morning:

“Judy Wilson, whose property was just metres from William's grandmother's yard, heard the two children playing before she took off to run errands in town.” (ref: The day William Tyrrell vanished)

We also know that they were probably seen by someone in a car when they were out riding their bicycles in the driveway on Friday morning:

“William and his sister were riding their bicycles in the property's driveway, when a car drove past, did a U-turn in a neighbour's driveway and drove off.” (ref: The day William Tyrrell vanished)

What’s more, they are known in the area.

PS had certainly seen them before:

“(PS) had seen the little boy named William and his sister, who came to stay with their grandmother directly across the road, only occasionally” (ref: The day William Tyrrell vanished)

They visited Kendall often enough for the kids to have their own toys at the house:

10:50 HARRIS: “…they had been to Kendall many times before with both of the kids. The kids had their own toys there, they knew the house so it was a pretty normal weekend.”

Specifically, they visited every few months, half a dozen times in total:

11:07 FF: “It might be once every three or four months especially Nanna’s birthday or an occasion or also, just a good time to catch up. So probably half a dozen times”

And they don't just stay indoors when they are there, they go outside to play. Plus, they have attended a Street Party:

11:21 FM: “We would go out, I mean they were young so quite limited in what you do with young children. And there was a street party so we went to the street party (inaudible), Christmas party. But it was more, family oriented rather than go out and engage with lots of people.”

So, a long post, basically just to say that I can imagine that the abduction was yes, enacted opportunistically (aren’t most?) but it could also have been planned. And I'm not sure arriving on Thursday is that "critical".

Podcast episode 1 ref: The Little Boy in the Spiderman Suit. Rough transcriptions above are my own.

In my mind questioning about the arrival day is important. If Friday was preplanned what time would the family have arrived in Kendall. Who would have been told of that plan? FACS agency? Child care centre? FGM? Cat minding? Fcarers employer or business associates or clients? Friends and acquaintances? We're there messages on FB or other social media sites? I don't have social media accounts but am told the Fcarers had loads of pics of the children on their FB for perps to discover.

Who would have been told of arrival on Thursday night? We now know FGM knew although initially we were given the impression no one knew. Who else knew? All the Friday options in above para?

IF the 2 cars were present and occupants were involved they were present from 7am to 9am on Friday according to FFC various accounts.

Would fcarers be there at that time on Friday if the perps planned the day? Or would they be there at that time if perps knew of the arrival at 9pm on Thursday night?

The trip from Sydney is about 4 hours so if there was a perp plan the family would have to leave Sydney on Friday at what time...about say 5 or 5.30am to arrive at say 9.00 or 9.30am?

The MFC Skype call occurred at what time? We know he left Benaroon at around 9.15am travelled to Laurieton/Lakewood about 15 minutes away so there at 9.30 approx and returned at around 10.30?

Would that skype have been pre-arranged with the other party? Did that party know of the family's presence in Kendall. Where was that person?

The family had not been back to Kendall after FGF's funeral in Feb 2014 according to FFC from memory...7 months?

 

[sleepinoz]

Who would have been told of arrival on Thursday night? We now know FGM knew although initially we were given the impression no one knew. Who else knew? All the Friday options in above para?

RSBM - Who Else Knew?

ONLY days before William Tyrrell was abducted, his grandmother told repairman Bill Spedding she was expecting a stay-over visit from her family and could he fix her faulty washing machine.

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

 

[Thebottomline]

RSBM - Who Else Knew?

ONLY days before William Tyrrell was abducted, his grandmother told repairman Bill Spedding she was expecting a stay-over visit from her family and could he fix her faulty washing machine.

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

He may have passed this on too

 

[2cents2]

In my mind questioning about the arrival day is important. If Friday was preplanned what time would the family have arrived in Kendall. Who would have been told of that plan? FACS agency? Child care centre? FGM? Cat minding? Fcarers employer or business associates or clients? Friends and acquaintances? We're there messages on FB or other social media sites? I don't have social media accounts but am told the Fcarers had loads of pics of the children on their FB for perps to discover.

Who would have been told of arrival on Thursday night? We now know FGM knew although initially we were given the impression no one knew. Who else knew? All the Friday options in above para?

IF the 2 cars were present and occupants were involved they were present from 7am to 9am on Friday according to FFC various accounts.

Would fcarers be there at that time on Friday if the perps planned the day? Or would they be there at that time if perps knew of the arrival at 9pm on Thursday night?

The trip from Sydney is about 4 hours so if there was a perp plan the family would have to leave Sydney on Friday at what time...about say 5 or 5.30am to arrive at say 9.00 or 9.30am?

The MFC Skype call occurred at what time? We know he left Benaroon at around 9.15am travelled to Laurieton/Lakewood about 15 minutes away so there at 9.30 approx and returned at around 10.30?

Would that skype have been pre-arranged with the other party? Did that party know of the family's presence in Kendall. Where was that person?

The family had not been back to Kendall after FGF's funeral in Feb 2014 according to FFC from memory...7 months?

All good questions. My mind boggles.

He may have passed this on too

Re: who else knew.

I just read the transcript of the police media interview with the FP in 2015 and I had forgotten that the FM had brothers that lived in the area. Not sure if they did at the time. But if they did, perhaps they also could have told people about the family coming that Friday. Not suggesting they were involved.

FM: … "My brothers have brought their kids up around there, they would run those streets with absolutely no fear."
(ref: IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure).

And further to them being known in the area, the FM answers a question here about someone local potentially abducting William. Bolded by me.

FM: "...I don’t know for sure. I can’t see, I can’t see a true local who knows my Mum, who knows us, and knows our family, choosing to take our child."
(ref: IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure).

 

[JLZ]

All good questions. My mind boggles.



Re: who else knew.

I just read the transcript of the police media interview with the FP in 2015 and I had forgotten that the FM had brothers that lived in the area. Not sure if they did at the time. But if they did, perhaps they also could have told people about the family coming that Friday. Not suggesting they were involved.

FM: … "My brothers have brought their kids up around there, they would run those streets with absolutely no fear."
(ref: IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure).

And further to them being known in the area, the FM answers a question here about someone local potentially abducting William. Bolded by me.

FM: "...I don’t know for sure. I can’t see, I can’t see a true local who knows my Mum, who knows us, and knows our family, choosing to take our child."
(ref: IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure).

Surely though, kids aren't scarce. Say you were disposed to abduct a young child, and by chance you heard about a couple of them coming to visit in your very own town. Why would you see that as an opportunity, more so than all the other kids already around? There would have to be something about the location--that you had a pretext to maybe or maybe not be in the street, and an ideal vehicle and so on--or something about that family, like you'd seen the child before and decided he was the one and only. For the thing to be worth a plan with a specific target, it has to be more than a malicious person hearing that random children were coming to visit vaguely nearby.