Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #49

[KateM]

Yep & it was mentioned at the inquest as a fleeting memory/ thought of hers , the media ran with it as if she had heard a child screaming ...................

Mr Craddock : " You say you thought you heard something like a scream when a child hurts themselves, quick, high pitched & sharp, came from direction of reeds"

FFC : " I thought I can't see any red, maybe I imagined it , maybe it was a bird & I walked back"

It was most likely imagined. IMO

 

[Karinna]

For what it's worth, Paul Savage claimed to have seen two cars parked nearby a few days earlier: NoCookies | The Australian

Would you really call PS a credible witness though? With his ever changing stories? I wouldn't.

 

[Karinna]

It was most likely imagined. IMO

I would say it was probably a bird or maybe even an animal in the bush?

 

[sosocurious]

It was most likely imagined. IMO

I cannot imagine the anxiety/fear the ffc was experiencing. Maybe her sense of hearing was heightened, she was looking for William who had vanished moments before.

 

[drsleuth]

Would you really call PS a credible witness though? With his ever changing stories? I wouldn't.

Nope , not at all!!!

 

[Karinna]

I cannot imagine the anxiety/fear the ffc was experiencing. Maybe her sense of hearing was heightened, she was looking for William who had vanished moments before.

I have experienced it myself when years ago my son who wasn't quite 4 years old at the time took off right under mine and my mother's watch in a residential neighbourhood at my mother's place where we were all out in her front yard with my daughter as well. Talk about panic. We ran around looking for him and my dad took off in his car and came back a short time later with my son in his car. He had made it about half a mile up the road and had crossed a main road in doing so on his little adventure. It's a horrible feeling for sure.

 

[JLZ]

In Det Beecrofts evidence she said that the cars were identified 4 days later..............

Her investigation note......

Perhaps the note meant that FFC remembered the cars 4 days after William's disappearance?

 

[sosocurious]

I have experienced it myself when years ago my son who wasn't quite 4 years old at the time took off right under mine and my mother's watch in a residential neighbourhood at my mother's place where we were all out in her front yard with my daughter as well. Talk about panic. We ran around looking for him and my dad took off in his car and came back a short time later with my son in his car. He had made it about half a mile up the road and had crossed a main road in doing so on his little adventure. It's a horrible feeling for sure.

Must have been terrible for you. No two people react the same, though.

 

[sosocurious]

Perhaps the note meant that FFC remembered the cars 4 days after William's disappearance?

As in remembered the details of the cars, after having informed the control station on the 15th?

 

[JLZ]

As in remembered the details of the cars, after having informed the control station on the 15th?

I can't make it fit, but if on the other hand it means they came to a decision about which cars they were, four days after what?

 

[Karinna]

Must have been terrible for you. No two people react the same, though.

No they don't. But our first reaction of course was to find him, and luckily he was fine. Back then i wasn't even aware of any predators because living in a small township it was unheard of. But nowadays it seems much more of a concern for parents because of how things have changed since then.

 

[stormbird]

Stormbird, it's a bit unclear when exactly the FFC re-called the 2 cars. It was before the walk thru video. Not sure exactly what day they went to the airport.

She re-called the cars whilst driving from picking up a relative from Port Macquarie airport . First mention of the 2 cars was in a statement she made on the 18/9/14

This is what I have written down re the 2 cars from the FFC


12/9/2014

FFC :
Woke up to William & his sister giggling
I got up, walked to sliding door & opened up ( It's a habit )
FGM not yet up
Saw 2 cars
One was white, one was dark grey
White in front , grey behind
Parked in middle of the driveways
Thought odd, went back inside.

Mr Craddock asks " Why odd?" FFC replied " cars never parked on street, always park in driveways ( most driveways long ) . Never seen cars parked on side of road.

The coroner asked FFC " Did you see anyone in cars?" FFC answered " No , not from that distance"

MrCraddock : Did you notice anything about how close together they were ?"

FFC : they looked close together, gap maybe half a car length"

Mr Craddock : " As you sit here today, can you see them?"

FFC : Yes

Mr Craddock : " 14/9/2014 , first written statement about what occurred ( Doc # 63 ) - no mention of the cars?"

FFC: " Just didn't even think about it, with William missing, went right out of my brain"

Mr Craddock : " In a later statement you refer to the cars for the first time 18/9/2014"

FFC " I was driving to Port Macquarie airport to collect a family member & just has a flash of 2 cars as I was talking to my mum & Williams sister"

( FFC emotional )

FFC : " Got back to the house & ran to command post to tell about the cars, cop gave phone to look for cars. That night looked online to find examples of cars"


She also saw the cars again when playing with William near the trees..........

Thanks, drsleuth! There were a few things in your notes which I thought were interesting:
- It was the coroner, not counsel assisting, who asked FFC if she could see anyone in the cars. The question is an obvious thing to ask, I'm just surprised it was the coroner who asked it.
- FFC's answer to whether she could see anyone in the cars was "No, not from that distance." BBM. There's nothing strange in that answer - it was quite a distance - but if FFC's eyesight was not great it might be that she was only seeing shapes and colours of things at a distance, not details. (I'm wondering if that's why she emphasised looking for "the red" when searching for William.)
- If the cars had only a half-car length between them, that does seem weirdly close together, IMO. If the car at the back wanted to leave before the car in front it would probably have to reverse a bit first. It's the sort of parking style which city drivers would be accustomed to.
- FFC said that when she remembered the cars she was headed towards the airport (not returning from it). So, if there was something in the conversation which triggered the memory, it was before any input from the person they were picking up.

 

[drsleuth]

Perhaps the note meant that FFC remembered the cars 4 days after William's disappearance?

As in remembered the details of the cars, after having informed the control station on the 15th?

Yes.

Det Beecroft had written in her notes that the police became aware of the 2 cars 4 days after William disappeared.


She had, what sounded like am amazing timeline document & spreadsheet type system where she had everything plotted out. I would have loved to have seen it in detail

She seemed extremly thorough to me .

 

[drsleuth]

Thanks, drsleuth! There were a few things in your notes which I thought were interesting:
- It was the coroner, not counsel assisting, who asked FFC if she could see anyone in the cars. The question is an obvious thing to ask, I'm just surprised it was the coroner who asked it.
- FFC's answer to whether she could see anyone in the cars was "No, not from that distance." BBM. There's nothing strange in that answer - it was quite a distance - but if FFC's eyesight was not great it might be that she was only seeing shapes and colours of things at a distance, not details. (I'm wondering if that's why she emphasised looking for "the red" when searching for William.)
- If the cars had only a half-car length between them, that does seem weirdly close together, IMO. If the car at the back wanted to leave before the car in front it would probably have to reverse a bit first. It's the sort of parking style which city drivers would be accustomed to.
- FFC said that when she remembered the cars she was headed towards the airport (not returning from it). So, if there was something in the conversation which triggered the memory, it was before any input from the person they were picking up.

Nothing really unusual in the coroner asking questions, she does it sometimes ( maybe because Mr Craddock at times can be very slow & she just jumps in before him ) .

I think the FFC's response to her question & her answer of " not from that distance " , just meant that she had a better view later on when they were down near the trees??

Everyone searching was looking out for "red" as they knew William was wearing his spiderman suit.

 

[KateM]

Thanks, drsleuth! There were a few things in your notes which I thought were interesting:
- It was the coroner, not counsel assisting, who asked FFC if she could see anyone in the cars. The question is an obvious thing to ask, I'm just surprised it was the coroner who asked it.
- FFC's answer to whether she could see anyone in the cars was "No, not from that distance." BBM. There's nothing strange in that answer - it was quite a distance - but if FFC's eyesight was not great it might be that she was only seeing shapes and colours of things at a distance, not details. (I'm wondering if that's why she emphasised looking for "the red" when searching for William.)
- If the cars had only a half-car length between them, that does seem weirdly close together, IMO. If the car at the back wanted to leave before the car in front it would probably have to reverse a bit first. It's the sort of parking style which city drivers would be accustomed to.
- FFC said that when she remembered the cars she was headed towards the airport (not returning from it). So, if there was something in the conversation which triggered the memory, it was before any input from the person they were picking up.

You cannot know that for certain.

In reference to the cars, if the owners were about to abduct William, why would they make themselves so obvious and park their cars in a strange way like that, so as to attract attention?

 

[they'll get you]

You cannot know that for certain.

In reference to the cars, if the owners were about to abduct William, why would they make themselves so obvious and park their cars in a strange way like that, so as to attract attention?

Right! Everyone leave their cars and hide behind a bush. That’s what I’d do too.

 

[JLZ]

Right! Everyone leave their cars and hide behind a bush. That’s what I’d do too.

There's a picture. Get dressed before you jump out.

 

[interested64]

For what it's worth, Paul Savage claimed to have seen two cars parked nearby a few days earlier: NoCookies | The Australian

Wexford,would you have the information about what PS saw,as to refresh my memory,thanks if you have

 

[Deleted member 102539]

What problem is that FromGermany??

I meant, that when we have to "delete", the empty post is to be seen. So we include perhaps "dbm" or some dots. For me the dots are no problem. An empty post is an empty post, always suspicious or not to the next reader.

 

[stormbird]

You cannot know that for certain.

In reference to the cars, if the owners were about to abduct William, why would they make themselves so obvious and park their cars in a strange way like that, so as to attract attention?

KateM,

I'm not sure what you mean about the uncertainty, sorry...

But re the cars: if the drivers were parking the way they always park, their minds on other things, they might not have realised they would look out of place? Maybe they didn't know or care what the neighbourhood's parking norm was. (If there was one. FFC might have been wrong about the way people park there usually.)