Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #56

[SouthAussie]

I wonder what he doesn't want "love" telling anyone...



This again makes me believe he saw someone take WT...for me it is just the emotive choice of words like 'grabbed' - I would think someone would say 'took or 'snatched' or 'stole' but 'grabbed' just seems so descriptive.



Does he refer to Heather as mum or is he talking to his own mum who I presume has passed. And I wonder if he is referring to GJ when saying that what he's said are all lies. And why would someone dob on you unless you have done something wrong... ?

All MOO

I wondered at one time if he went off for 2 hours because he did see someone who took William - or saw someone walking that way who (from behind) could have been carrying a child, or something red - and some time later (maybe ½ an hour later?) followed up the track toward the cemetery to see if he could see what was going on.

There is a part in the book where he says that he feels someone would have taken William and exited the street in that direction. I will have to try to find all these little excerpts again to provide quotes and references.

I don't understand, either, why he wouldn't tell anyone. Unless that person was a person who is one of his family members or a person he likes a lot or a person who has something on him.

 

[kiwi50]

I’m disappointed to think after all these years, there is so much that hasnt been listened to or looked at.
How many detectives were still working on the case when Jubelin was sacked.
You’d think after so long there would not be a stone unturned.
Even if each detective was given one POI to concentrate on, you’d think most could have been eliminated by now.

 

[JLZ]

I wondered at one time if he went off for 2 hours because he did see someone who took William - or saw someone walking that way who (from behind) could have been carrying a child, or something red - and some time later (maybe ½ an hour later?) followed up the track toward the cemetery to see if he could see what was going on.

There is a part in the book where he says that he feels someone would have taken William and exited the street in that direction. I will have to try to find all these little excerpts again to provide quotes and references.

I don't understand, either, why he wouldn't tell anyone. Unless that person was a person who is one of his family members or a person he likes a lot or a person who has something on him.

Did he take off for two hours--after William went missing? His early morning walk was two hours plus. But he joined the search after 10:50, and apparently was back home around 11:30-11:45, and I think there was some question of why he hadn't searched longer in that initial period. He thought he'd been out longer and couldn't adequately remember what must have been an hour and a half, roughly, between his return and GN's arrival. ?

Here's another thought. What if PS departed for his early morning walk later than usual, say sevenish, by which time the children were up, and had a peep in at FGM's as he sometimes did, perhaps prompted by the sight of the FF car. Went on his walk and mentioned the children's presence to someone living along his walking route. Then worried that he shouldn't have done that and he might have given the wrong person the lead. Would he have concealed that?--Since he was already under a cloud for stalking, and he'd said he hadn't seen the children, and perhaps police were focussing on what he saw not what he said, and then thoroughly antagonized him with accusations?

 

[kiwi50]

Dbm

 

[SouthAussie]

Jane (FM) testifying at Jubes' trial ....

Margaret Cunneen: "I call Jane Fiore"
For a moment, silence swells and fills the courtroom ....

MC: "Are you the foster mother of William Tyrrell?
Jane: "Yes"
and you can see the sadness in her ....

MC: "Did you attend the inquest hearings in relation to the disappearance of your son, William, in March of last year?"
Jane: "Yes, every day"
MC: "Did you have occassion to have a conversation with Scott at that inquest?"
Jane: "Yes"
MC: "Could you tell the court the circumstances of that, please"
Jane: "We said hello, exchanged pleasantries" "After the pleasantries, Scott said to me 'you are not the only family of victims of crime' 'William is not our only case' "
Jane: "I then said to him 'William was three years old, he was taken from his grandmother's house. It was a street where there's probably 20 houses on it. We were sitting just around the corner and he's a child in care. I don't think you've got any other cases that can be described like that and I don't think you can just give up on him' "
MC: "Did he make a reply?"
Jane: "No" (starts to cry) "I then asked him 'So, are you planning on taking William's case to cold cases?' He said 'yes, it's going to Unsolved'. I said to him "You can't send it to Unsolved, you can't do it'. He said 'it's going there'. I said 'So, it's going to sit in a box and in six months time you are going to pull it out again, lift up the box and go 'oh, nothing new', close the box and put it away' "
Jane: "And I am saying that and he's looking at me and he's nodding and I'm thinking I can't believe you are saying this to us, here, at the inquest for this little boy. You're saying this to his parents".

MC gently asks if anyone told Jane about a handover being done between myself and David.

Jane: "I was really worried because I didn't know what was going on. I specifically said 'who's going to do the handover?' He told me Gary Jubelin was doing a handover with David".
Jane says she spoke to David who told her there was no handover. That he was not allowed to talk to me.

Jane:"I am angry" (eyes overflowing with tears)

(Afterwards) "I've been waiting for a year to say that" she says.

Loc 7559 Kindle version
I Catch Killers
Gary Jubelin & Dan Box

 

[SouthAussie]

I’m disappointed to think after all these years, there is so much that hasnt been listened to or looked at.
How many detectives were still working on the case when Jubelin was sacked.
You’d think after so long there would not be a stone unturned.
Even if each detective was given one POI to concentrate on, you’d think most could have been eliminated by now.

I think when Jubes was pulled off the case there were two detectives left. Then DCI David Laidlaw was put in charge of the case - likely while still working other cases imo.
Jubes says David is a nice person. (I think he is reaching retirement age.)

Keep in mind that they were constantly pulling Jubes to work other murders. He mentions details of at least a few that he was pulled to deal with, while working William's case. He was unable to constantly work on William's case.
He also was dealing with the Bowraville case, trying to get an appeals court and the Supreme Court to allow a retrial of the primary suspect and then try the 3 cases together so a jury could (for the first time) hear the similarities of these 3 murders that happened within a 6 month period.
As well he was working with legals and others to help overturn NSW double jeopardy law - for the Bowraville case.

Jubes made a comment much earlier in the book that it was funny how two officers can be called a strike force, but it happens.

 

[SouthAussie]

Darrin from Professional Standards .... tells me the most serious charges, accusing me of falsifying affidavits, are being dropped. I look at him. Am I supposed to be relieved? Does it even matter now? Everyone has read about those allegations in the paper.
We take the lift to the ground floor and, once outside, Darrin looks around and says he's never seen so much interest in a case like this from the people above him.
It's out of control, he says. Some people are on your side. Other people want to crush you.
Loc 7044 Kindle version

The only thing that gives me strength is the way the trial has become a kind of public inquiry into the William Tyrrell investigation ....
Loc 7394 Kindle version

Margaret asks me about my last boss, Scott. Did I have a conversation with him about a photograph of William Tyrrell that was next to my desk?
"Yes" I say ......
"He came over to my desk and pointed at the picture of William Tyrrell and said to me. 'no one cares about that little kid. Get him off the books. Get him to Unsolved Homicides."
I hear Jane's sharp intake of breath and see her eyes well up across the courtroom.
Their (police) barrister stands up and asks for a suppression order to be applied to the whole of my evidence.
The magistrate looks stunned. He refuses to grant it.
Later, the barrister says he would like to put it on record that Scott denies ever having said that about William.
What was it Axeman told me, before this trial got started? Good guys come last, Gary.
Loc 7480 Kindle version



(One other random tidbit I wanted to include somewhere here about CCTV cameras)
In total, we've interviewed 263 local residents, collected CCTV from 12 businesses in Kendall and 169 cameras beyond it and received reports of over 2000 different sightings of William from around the planet.
Loc 6732 Kindle version

I Catch Killers
Gary Jubelin & Dan Box

 

[JLZ]

Right, you get into conversation with Scott Cook and next thing you're hallucinating--that he's saying weird things that of course he would never have said.

 

[SouthAussie]

Right, you get into conversation with Scott Cook and next thing you're hallucinating--that he's saying weird things that of course he would never have said.

Sadly, Jubes' daughter was going into the police force but was now equivocating about that ... due to what has happened to her dad.

And Jubes' son has been fighting in Afghanistan for our armed forces. He got leave to support his dad, went with his dad for two weeks holiday overseas (when the police 'couldn't find' Jubes), and Jubes tried hard to not let his personal worries concern his son too much because he knew his son had to go back to Afghanistan and stay strong.

His children have been raised to be good, honourable Aussies.


Source:
I Catch Killers
Gary Jubelin & Dan Box

 

[interested64]

I wonder what he doesn't want "love" telling anyone...



This again makes me believe he saw someone take WT...for me it is just the emotive choice of words like 'grabbed' - I would think someone would say 'took or 'snatched' or 'stole' but 'grabbed' just seems so descriptive.



Does he refer to Heather as mum or is he talking to his own mum who I presume has passed. And I wonder if he is referring to GJ when saying that what he's said are all lies. And why would someone dob on you unless you have done something wrong... ?

All MOO

Maybe he has a split personality ? imo is anybody skilled in this department on this thread? would be interesting..and i agree..guilty of something

 

[Loxoli]

Wow, I can’t find the words. I am so glad GJ wrote this book and told his side. He confirmed a lot about what was suspected about the strike force and certain higher ups. Unfortunately, he has taken away my last bit of hope that the investigation will be still somewhat acceptable without him.

After hearing about the unheard recordings they have of PS and the snippets that they have listened to, I’m less confident in the elimination of PS as a POI now. I don’t understand how he could be eliminated when there seems to be nothing proving his innocence and a whole lot of unheard but potentially important evidence.

 

[SouthAussie]

Wow, I can’t find the words. I am so glad GJ wrote this book and told his side. He confirmed a lot about what was suspected about the strike force and certain higher ups. Unfortunately, he has taken away my last bit of hope that the investigation will be still somewhat acceptable without him.

After hearing about the unheard recordings they have of PS and the snippets that they have listened to, I’m less confident in the elimination of PS as a POI now. I don’t understand how he could be eliminated when there seems to be nothing proving his innocence and a whole lot of unheard but potentially important evidence.

I think the investigation was difficult even with Jubes overseeing it - and participating - due to the staff.

Lambert was responsible for the day to day ops. It was his fulltime job.

There are more than several instances throughout the sections about William where Jubes found out he wasn't told about this, wasn't told about that, or he asked people to go and do something (like work out if Savage was looking at the planted spiderman suit with regard to the first day that he walked that way) and later found out that the officers did a half-arse job and proved not much at all ... other than Savage stopped for 12 secs and 'probably' saw the suit. (They didn't take the person who planted the suit to know exactly where it was, how it was laying, they didn't take a tape measure to measure exactly how far away from the suit Savage was, etc).

And another thing, Savage wasn't asked if he consented to Jubes recording him until after they charged Jubes. Jubes has the date of his charges (obviously) and they also have the date of when Savage was asked.

A lot of what is in Jubes' book is from the court records, not just his recall.

Source:
I Catch Killers
Gary Jubelin & Dan Box

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Did he take off for two hours--after William went missing? His early morning walk was two hours plus. But he joined the search after 10:50, and apparently was back home around 11:30-11:45, and I think there was some question of why he hadn't searched longer in that initial period. He thought he'd been out longer and couldn't adequately remember what must have been an hour and a half, roughly, between his return and GN's arrival. ?

Here's another thought. What if PS departed for his early morning walk later than usual, say sevenish, by which time the children were up, and had a peep in at FGM's as he sometimes did, perhaps prompted by the sight of the FF car. Went on his walk and mentioned the children's presence to someone living along his walking route. Then worried that he shouldn't have done that and he might have given the wrong person the lead. Would he have concealed that?--Since he was already under a cloud for stalking, and he'd said he hadn't seen the children, and perhaps police were focussing on what he saw not what he said, and then thoroughly antagonized him with accusations?

If he knew, there was someone, to whom he shouldn't have talked to about the arrival/presence of the children, then he knew some suspious or dangerous things, this person would use it for. Otherwise he could have said it innocently to every neighbor, he met on his walk - why not? It doesn't have something to do with stalking, if he only saw the children playing there, were he had sight onto the property (or heard them playing). MOO

Just have bought the Kindle version of GJ's book! I'm happily owning it finally!

 

[Warshawski]

As well, Jubes mentions they have over 15,000 pieces of information in their system about this case. Much of it they weren't able to get to before Rosann was minimised.

Jubes constantly getting pulled off the case to work another murder somewhere. Lambert growing quieter and quieter - not getting along with his staff - and then going on extended leave. Beacroft being seconded back to Sex Crimes after a year, as she wanted to be.

Maybe the Cold Case division will be able to put the devoted time into it and find that one piece of info that will crack the case. If they have the time to do that, when the inquest is over.

IMO - and simply based on these reports - this is not acceptable. Our major crime Investigative Forces must be adequately & capably resourced for the best & quickest possible outcomes. Sadly, IMO, William was let down yet again .. he was only on this earth for little more than 3 years but he couldn’t even rely on the highest powers in our country to come through for him.
IMO, those people who were trained in this area & who he should’ve been able to rely on, were too busy playing politics & one-upmanship & all the bullsh#$¥ that went on (as we heard in a Jubes’ trial ) to Do their Job.
I’m ashamed by my thoughts, but I personally can’t help wonder how it may’ve played out if he was someone else’s child.

 

[SouthAussie]

IMO - and simply based on these reports - this is not acceptable. Our major crime Investigative Forces must be adequately & capably resourced for the best & quickest possible outcomes. Sadly, IMO, William was let down yet again .. he was only on this earth for little more than 3 years but he couldn’t even rely on the highest powers in our country to come through for him.
IMO, those people who were trained in this area & who he should’ve been able to rely on, were too busy playing politics & one-upmanship & all the bullsh#$¥ that went on (as we heard in a Jubes’ trial ) to Do their Job.
I’m ashamed by my thoughts, but I personally can’t help wonder how it may’ve played out if he was someone else’s child.

Maybe FromGermany will stumble on the exact quote(s) when reading their new copy of the book, but Jubes makes a statement or two in his book that he felt he was always fighting the system in trying to gain justice for the victims.

Most of all from the judges who had no idea what it was like out there. Trying to pin these perps down. Rolling up at an horrific murder. Consoling the families. Keeping a little piece of that inside you, day after day, until you were filled with pieces.

 

[Warshawski]

Freakin’ disgusting!

Does anyone hear have a line of contact to PM Scott Morrison ?

It’s time to get real.. blatant disregard for information is not acceptable IMO.
Also I get an uncomfortable belly when I hear of the disablement of a witness, in this instance, Gary Jubelin . .. smacks of muck & murky to me.

Our Aussie culture has always been about listening to the opinions of others - then making a decision. I don’t want that to change.

 

[Warshawski]

I wonder what he doesn't want "love" telling anyone..
This again makes me believe he saw someone take WT...for me it is just the emotive choice of words like 'grabbed' - I would think someone would say 'took or 'snatched' or 'stole' but 'grabbed' just seems so descriptive.
Does he refer to Heather as mum or is he talking to his own mum who I presume has passed. And I wonder if he is referring to GJ when saying that what he's said are all lies. And why would someone dob on you unless you have done something wrong... ?

All MOO

For sure, I understand Det Jubelin’s interest in PS. .. . what a ‘study’ in ...

I share your confusion over who he’s referring to as ‘Mum’. First time I heard ‘Mum’ mentioned so am guessing different to the ‘Love’ we’ve heard and presumed was Heather - but maybe not...

What really caught my attention was the bit in your referred post ..
“I’m sorry, I shouldn't do it again" .. what the ? was he referencing that He shouldn’t Do Again - that he was talking to Mum about ??

I keep on remembering the posts from ‘daughter Lisa’ that popped in here briefly around court time saying the Car was her’s etc. . ...

 

[Warshawski]

Jane (FM) testifying at Jubes' trial ....

Margaret Cunneen: "I call Jane Fiore"
For a moment, silence swells and fills the courtroom ....

MC: "Are you the foster mother of William Tyrrell?
Jane: "Yes"
and you can see the sadness in her ....

MC: "Did you attend the inquest hearings in relation to the disappearance of your son, William, in March of last year?"
Jane: "Yes, every day"
MC: "Did you have occassion to have a conversation with Scott at that inquest?"
Jane: "Yes"
MC: "Could you tell the court the circumstances of that, please"
Jane: "We said hello, exchanged pleasantries" "After the pleasantries, Scott said to me 'you are not the only family of victims of crime' 'William is not our only case' "
Jane: "I then said to him 'William was three years old, he was taken from his grandmother's house. It was a street where there's probably 20 houses on it. We were sitting just around the corner and he's a child in care. I don't think you've got any other cases that can be described like that and I don't think you can just give up on him' "
MC: "Did he make a reply?"
Jane: "No" (starts to cry) "I then asked him 'So, are you planning on taking William's case to cold cases?' He said 'yes, it's going to Unsolved'. I said to him "You can't send it to Unsolved, you can't do it'. He said 'it's going there'. I said 'So, it's going to sit in a box and in six months time you are going to pull it out again, lift up the box and go 'oh, nothing new', close the box and put it away' "
Jane: "And I am saying that and he's looking at me and he's nodding and I'm thinking I can't believe you are saying this to us, here, at the inquest for this little boy. You're saying this to his parents".

MC gently asks if anyone told Jane about a handover being done between myself and David.

Jane: "I was really worried because I didn't know what was going on. I specifically said 'who's going to do the handover?' He told me Gary Jubelin was doing a handover with David".
Jane says she spoke to David who told her there was no handover. That he was not allowed to talk to me.

Jane:"I am angry" (eyes overflowing with tears)

(Afterwards) "I've been waiting for a year to say that" she says.

Loc 7559 Kindle version
I Catch Killers
Gary Jubelin & Dan Box

OMG! We stand for so much more in this country. Hence my question if anyone has a line to PM. I need to find one and escalate this ..

 

[purpleandgreen]

Does anyone hear have a line of contact to PM Scott Morrison ?

It’s time to get real.. blatant disregard for information is not acceptable IMO.
Also I get an uncomfortable belly when I hear of the disablement of a witness, in this instance, Gary Jubelin . .. smacks of muck & murky to me.

Our Aussie culture has always been about listening to the opinions of others - then making a decision. I don’t want that to change.

NSW Police Force is a state issue, Warsh. Nothing to do with the PM.

 

[bearbear]

south aussie, after reading the book did you form an opinion on what/who you think gj thinks happened to william?
im halfway through the book and enjoying it also