Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #56

[Loxoli]

Quite honestly, these two perps could have been victims themselves during their very young lives.
It takes something abhorent and evil to be able to sexually abuse babies and young children ... any children. Then to film and potentially make money from it as well.
If they were also victims at some stage, it could make them think it was 'nothing' to victimise others when they were at an even younger age than in 2017. This abhorent behaviour could have been going on for years and escalating further and further.

IMO

Totally agree. I don't believe that it is likely someone jumps from a first offence to the prolific crimes described in just 3 years. There could be so much more evidence and many more perpetrators that the investigators haven't uncovered yet. It would have to be the world's biggest coincidence if a paedophile ring was operating in the same town of 800 people that a 3-year-old vanished from without a trace during the same time period and they aren't connected. Stranger things have happened, but it really does need a thorough investigation.

 

[MissMarpleAU]

View attachment 263723 View attachment 263724 View attachment 263725 View attachment 263726

The two close-ups of the 4wd are from SA's post in thread #54.


This article was paraphrased by sosocurious in thread #44 post #1085:

The three- or four-year-old boy had his hands and face pressed up to the glass in the fawn-coloured vehicle's back seat, he said. Car in screenshots doesn't appear fawn, maybe when dirty though?

Mr Chapman realised the significance of what he had seen when he saw a news story about William's disappearance that evening, he said.

"I recognised the boy's face and features," he said...........................

Mr Chapman said the woman, whom he described as fair, in her late 20s or 30s and "plumpish", was driving too fast. Unlikely, but possibly could fit the description of a 14 year old Timothy Doyle. A teen could have been chosen to be the one to abduct William, because it would be more likely he would trust a teen? TD wouldn't have had a license, but not impossible that he could drive. Could have also been a female accomplice.

"She was driving with speed; I couldn't estimate how fast, and almost lost control. She came around the corner at a wide angle." Inexperienced or unlicensed driver?

Shortly after the four-wheel-drive sped past, another car going too quickly came around the corner from Batar Creek Road, he said.

"He cut the corner and was on the wrong side when he came around the corner, really, really accelerating."

The iridescent blue six-cylinder car was being driven by a man, he said, but Mr Chapman could not see any identifying characteristics because of the window tint. Fits description of the blue car in the screenshot, IMO. Could have appeared more iridescent to RC because it was noted that the sun was blcoking his view of the driver?

https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-r...driven-away-inquest-told-20190828-p52lj5.html


Lia Harris tweet:
Lia Harris‏Verified account @LiaJHarris 42s42 seconds ago

He told he court it was an “old box type four wheel drive” being driven by a woman “in her late 20s to late 30s, very fair complexion... blonde hair combed up with a bow on top of her head”. @10NewsFirst @10Daily

I have bolded all the similarities I can see between the cars and the relevant description of the drivers that I find interesting. I have written my thoughts in red. I do think it is unlikely that TD was the woman driving, but I do think that the cars could be a solid lead. I would love to see some evidence that disproves their connection to William's case.

I guess a way to disprove their direct involvement could be school records that show they were at school that day. Although not all high schools do the roll before first class. IMO

 

[kiwi50]

Totally agree. I don't believe that it is likely someone jumps from a first offence to the prolific crimes described in just 3 years. There could be so much more evidence and many more perpetrators that the investigators haven't uncovered yet. It would have to be the world's biggest coincidence if a paedophile ring was operating in the same town of 800 people that a 3-year-old vanished from without a trace during the same time period and they aren't connected. Stranger things have happened, but it really does need a thorough investigation.

I’d like to know everyone these two were connected with in Kendall, especially would like to know if they knew RD or any of his victims.

 

[Loxoli]

I have been thinking about the inquest. If the investigators have not ruled out the possibility of TD, SG or their associates being involved, then would the next tranche of the inquest be held so soon? If there was a possibility and investigations needed to be done, then I'm thinking they would have delayed the inquest again. What do you guys think?

Ronald Chapman made some mistakes in not coming forward sooner, and I think his evidence lost credibility with some because of that. But he is the only person I can think of who has adamantly stated that they have seen William since he disappeared. All the other leads involve dubious people with possibly nefarious motives for making statements, whereas Mr Chapman is a respected community member with nothing to gain and his dignity to lose. Maybe there is more to this angle than meets the eye.

 

[SouthAussie]

I have been thinking about the inquest. If the investigators have not ruled out the possibility of TD, SG or their associates being involved, then would the next tranche of the inquest be held so soon? If there was a possibility and investigations needed to be done, then I'm thinking they would have delayed the inquest again. What do you guys think?

Ronald Chapman made some mistakes in not coming forward sooner, and I think his evidence lost credibility with some because of that. But he is the only person I can think of who has adamantly stated that they have seen William since he disappeared. All the other leads involve dubious people with possibly nefarious motives for making statements, whereas Mr Chapman is a respected community member with nothing to gain and his dignity to lose. Maybe there is more to this angle than meets the eye.

I think it is good that the inquest is being dragged out this long. Because at least the Coroner is sending the police off to investigate this and that. (That's what I believe is happening, anyway.)

At the close of the inquest, the Coroner may well find an open verdict, if they do not 'solve' this case during the inquest and recommend a specific individual(s) for the crime.

Once the inquest is over, unless there is some kind of change in police administration, I am afraid that William's case will end up in Unsolved Homicides and not be solved for many years, if at all.

Unless, of course, something comes to light through investigation of other crimes, and William is somehow linked in to the perp(s) of another crime(s). Or someone actually comes forward at some future point and reveals what they know.

 

[Loxoli]

I think it is good that the inquest is being dragged out this long. Because at least the Coroner is sending the police off to investigate this and that. (That's what I believe is happening, anyway.)

At the close of the inquest, the Coroner may well find an open verdict, if they do not 'solve' this case during the inquest and recommend a specific individual(s) for the crime.

Once the inquest is over, unless there is some kind of change in police administration, I am afraid that William's case will end up in Unsolved Homicides and not be solved for many years, if at all.

Unless, of course, something comes to light through investigation of other crimes, and William is somehow linked in to the perp(s) of another crime(s). Or someone actually comes forward at some future point and reveals what they know.

Yes, I guess that’s what I’m worried about. That the next part of the inquest is too soon for them to have thoroughly investigated TD, SG and associates. I guess we have no details about how extensively they have investigated this link but it seems like a short timeframe. Personally, I have little faith left in the quality of the investigation

 

[stormbird]

Gary Jubelin's appeal judgment is listed for the District Court at Parramatta tomorrow, Friday 18 Sep 2020, case no. 2019/00193051.
NSW Online Registry: Search NSW Court Lists

From the appeal hearing in August 2020:
"In written submissions, Ms Cunneen and barrister Craig Longman argued five grounds of appeal, including that a warrant was in place when the first three recordings were made, which meant they were authorised, and that Magistrate Hudson erred in failing to give himself two directions." BBM
- Sydney Morning Herald, 13 Aug 2020

Legal Aid New South Wales has some great factsheets explaining appeals: see the links in my post 624 in thread 55.

 

[drsleuth]

Best wishes for Gary today

 

[drsleuth]

https://twitter.com/LiaJHarris

Gary Jubelin has arrived at the Parramatta District Court to hear the outcome of his criminal appeal. The former lead Homicide detective on the William Tyrrell investigation was convicted earlier this year of illegally recording conversations with a former suspect.

Judge Townsend has begun by telling the court there is no dispute Paul Savage was a person of interest in the disappearance of William Tyrrell, or that Jubelin recorded conversations with him.

 

[drsleuth]

https://twitter.com/LiaJHarris

The judge is re-capping the grounds of the appeal. Jubelin argued he recorded the four conversations with Savage on a mobile phone to protect his lawful interests, in case Savage made complaints against him. He also argued he needed a record of the convos for operational reasons.

The judge told the court “I reject the submission there was an operational necessity” to record the conversations.

The judge has upheld the guilty verdict, dismissing the appeal against the verdict. He’s now giving his decision on the sentence

He has also upheld the sentence. Jubelin’s conviction stands and his appeal is lost.

 

[SouthAussie]

https://twitter.com/LiaJHarris

The judge is re-capping the grounds of the appeal. Jubelin argued he recorded the four conversations with Savage on a mobile phone to protect his lawful interests, in case Savage made complaints against him. He also argued he needed a record of the convos for operational reasons.

The judge told the court “I reject the submission there was an operational necessity” to record the conversations.

The judge has upheld the guilty verdict, dismissing the appeal against the verdict. He’s now giving his decision on the sentence

He has also upheld the sentence. Jubelin’s conviction stands and his appeal is lost.

You know, Jubes said it best when he said that judges do not understand what it is like out there for a Homicide cop.
Always fighting the system to get justice for the victims - of which Jubes is now one. IMO

Source: I Catch Killers
Gary Jubelin & Dan Box

 

[alj65]

Link to news article about it:
Former William Tyrrell cop loses illegal recording appeal

 

[alj65]

You know, Jubes said it best when he said that judges do not understand what it is like out there for a Homicide cop.
Always fighting the system to get justice for the victims - of which Jubes is now one. IMO

He sure is.

 

[Loxoli]

Very disappointing for Jubes. His conviction is non-sensical. Why can’t they focus their police and judicial resources on actually finding and delivering justice to the people who commit these abhorrent crimes, the very people that Jubes dedicated his life to bringing to justice?

 

[purpleandgreen]

https://twitter.com/LiaJHarris

The judge is re-capping the grounds of the appeal. Jubelin argued he recorded the four conversations with Savage on a mobile phone to protect his lawful interests, in case Savage made complaints against him. He also argued he needed a record of the convos for operational reasons.

The judge told the court “I reject the submission there was an operational necessity” to record the conversations.

The judge has upheld the guilty verdict, dismissing the appeal against the verdict. He’s now giving his decision on the sentence

He has also upheld the sentence. Jubelin’s conviction stands and his appeal is lost.

Thanks, doc. I can't 'Like" it though because it's disgraceful news.

 

[drsleuth]

Thanks, doc. I can't 'Like" it though because it's disgraceful news.

It is P & G . They seem to destroy all the good cops & just promote the others. Nick Kaldas is another prime example, what they did to him was absolutely disgraceful.

 

[interested64]

Very disappointing for Jubes. His conviction is non-sensical. Why can’t they focus their police and judicial resources on actually finding and delivering justice to the people who commit these abhorrent crimes, the very people that Jubes dedicated his life to bringing to justice?

yes havnt they got hrs of tape to go over instead of wasting valuable money and time trying to score points

 

[madoodi]

You know, Jubes said it best when he said that judges do not understand what it is like out there for a Homicide cop.
Always fighting the system to get justice for the victims - of which Jubes is now one. IMO

Source: I Catch Killers
Gary Jubelin & Dan Box

And the sad thing is the very person putting their heart and soul on the line to find answers for victims had to sacrifice his career, which was the very thing that enabled him to help find these answers.
I am very sad for WT's family and all the families that he was working for. All I can hope for is that the current investigating team are doing at least half of what GJ would have done.

IMO

 

[drsleuth]

Another 3 yr old boy missing

Western Australia Police Force

** URGENT – PLEASE SHARE ** - Police are searching for a missing 3-year-old boy in the area around Karli Rise, Yallingup. He was last seen about 7:30am today, Saturday 19 September 2020.
The boy is described as fair skinned with blonde hair and blue eyes. He is wearing white ‘Spiderman’ pyjamas.
Anyone who sees the boy is asked to remain with him and call Police immediately on 000.

 

[SouthAussie]

Another 3 yr old boy missing

Western Australia Police Force

** URGENT – PLEASE SHARE ** - Police are searching for a missing 3-year-old boy in the area around Karli Rise, Yallingup. He was last seen about 7:30am today, Saturday 19 September 2020.
The boy is described as fair skinned with blonde hair and blue eyes. He is wearing white ‘Spiderman’ pyjamas.
Anyone who sees the boy is asked to remain with him and call Police immediately on 000.

I started a thread for the little tacker. Going missing 6 years and one week after William, and in a spiderman suit as well, is a terrible thing for us all to contemplate.

Australia - 3-year old boy, Karli Rise, Yallingup, 19 Sept 2020

Let's hope that it is a very short thread, and he is found soon.