Austria - Thomas Plamberger leaves gf, Kerstin Gurtner to freeze to death on Austria's tallest mountain - charged with manslaughter - Jan.19/2025

[beubeubeu]

Video from back in Jan.

From the video "His partner convinced him to go down on his own"
and "Autopsy was performed"

Oh sure. She "urged him to go".
She urged him to go and "he complied".
Like... what else could she do? And why would he say it that way?
Especially that later he said, or stated by his lawyer, not sure - that they made this decision together.

Ive bet that at least once he said or hinted that it was entirely her idea and SHE kept forcing him to go, she planned that trip, she told him to take away thermo blankets and bivvy sack and warned to not, under any circumstances call for help for her before he will be safe and warm in the hut.
Or its his whole narrative at this point.

 

[beubeubeu]

Would anyone here decide to continue in that condition with near zero visibility?

Here? They asked experienced climbers, certified clibing guides and THEY are all expressing confusion and wording it very carefully, like they all wanted to say "WHAT THE HELL?!" or worse, as their opinion.

Ive clicked though many random days in January and December - no headlights at all. Nobody was doing that. On some days that camera doesnt show anything or almost anything cause there is ice covering all or part of the view.

It so crazy. Does something like that happened EVER?
No shortage of accidents, tragic decisions and mistakes made in the mountains (as well as anywhere else, most places are more forgiving thou) but it always seems to be like people at some point just have no choice.
Like they have to climb up cause they cant go down, they have to try to get to the shelter somehow cause no other way to survive, they have to leave companion behind to not die with them, they have to leave to try to get rescue services, or theyre injured/dehydrated/hypotermic. They didnt have a heli showing up below their heads, phone reception, working phones, they were lost... They were making decisions that in handshigh or comfort (associated with lack of extreme circumstances) werent the best ot were completely terrible, but its like... its understandable why they made them, why they thought it may be their best chance. But here?
What makes sense here other than him trying to make sure she wont make out of it alive?

 

[Charlot123]

.

View attachment 630994
Anyone has any idea what could it be?
View attachment 630995
These are not airplane fumes cause its such a weird straight line?
At first I thought that maybe the hot air coming out of the thermos with hot tea in it but that wouldnt be so thick and tall right?
But it is kinda where they may be expected to be at the time judging by the headlamps lights later.

This is where they are later:
View attachment 630996

2 hours 10 minutes difference:

View attachment 630997

Here is their progress between 18:10 / 18:30 / 19:00:

View attachment 630998

Theyre clearly moving up:

View attachment 631000

View attachment 631001

Seriously, what is this?
What could cause this?
Hot water? Burning something? Heating something?

That brown-grey foggy looking cloud is with my best guess a drop of something on the camera lens, but the white thing isnt.

With full mountain's perspective:

View attachment 631003

I dont have full confidence in my ability to accurately say where Fruhs is, but judging by the videos somewhere there...

View attachment 631008

IF we can be sure after all that timing with 1:30 AM is accurate.

I tried to did my best with MS Paint but what it even tells apart from what we were kinda able to tell before?
There was absolutely no reason to think, assume, hope or even dream of making it safely up and down.
Surely they were doing great considering how that horrific route had to look like but no way. Ive said it so many times and I will probably repeat it few times more: no way that at 10:30 PM anyone could consider that climb goes well.

16:00 (4:00 PM) is when, according to the weather archive there was no wind - it was extremely strong hour before and went back to being windy with sunset hour later. So it makes sense that some sort of smoke would travel straight up.

At first I thought it was an antenna (after all, they need connection in the mountains), but it looks more like a column of smoke.

Is it stationary? Do you see it on photos of other days, or only here?

Either way, if you blow the fitst picture (actually second from the top but the first with the “smoke spire”) up and look a tad below, don’t you see the head of a lying figure? There are stones around but I definitely see a person, too. I don’t see it later so I think it is Thomas who moves from the area later.

 

[beubeubeu]

Have been seeking out information from the week after Kerstin died.

An article from Jan, with more information/details.

Exposure Death of 33-Year-Old Alpinist on Austria's Grossglockner Sparks Police Investigation - SnowBrains

A 33-year-old Austrian woman tragically lost her life during a high-altitude ascent of the Grossglockner, Austria’s tallest peak at 3,798 meters (12,461 feet), over the weekend. Accompanied by her 36-year-old partner, the pair set off on Saturday, January 18, early in the morning from Kals...

snowbrains.com

"Police noted that the man did not require immediate medical treatment after the ordeal.”

So he wasnt hypotermic and didnt appear concerningly confused.

Also, the same article posted on January 26 2025 says: “ Over the last week, some climbers reported aborting ascents in the Alps because of strong winds.” So it probably happened on several days in a row.

It did, snowstorms (?) are visible on cams, snowfall for sure, and fog. I highely doubt that wasnt mentioned in weather predictions.

I think it may be that these "other climbers" who were abandoning their climbs werent trying on Glossglockner or anything else at that time of day but resigned all together from pursuing further hikes day after.

 

[beubeubeu]

.

At first I thought it was an antenna (after all, they need connection in the mountains), but it looks more like a column of smoke.

Is it stationary? Do you see it on photos of other days, or only here?

Either way, if you blow the fitst picture (actually second from the top but the first with the “smoke spire”) up and look a tad below, don’t you see the head of a lying figure? There are stones around but I definitely see a person, too. I don’t see it later so I think it is Thomas who moves from the area later.

That thing is visible there only once, at 4:00 PM, on that day, it doesnt show up any other day or any other time of that day.
To me it looks like smoke or vaporizing water, but its so weirdly solid. Basically only smoke that looks like this I can think of is from the incense sticks. No wind, no movement and it goes like that, thin, straight column up for like 10-20 inches, then it fades.
Not sure about the water or thermos. As far as I recall people opening these its like breathing cloud, just much bigger, it tends to go all cloudy right away, not shape into a column. And it would have to be pretty thick to be visible like that.
Some vids of people cooking on outside stoves in winter have cloudy like smoke/vaporized water going on, but theyre not doing it on this altitude Im pretty sure.

Maybe that was their lunch/dinner time?
And possibly they had one of these tiny, ultra light tourist stoves where you put a small tablet in and have it burn for 10 mins so you can heat a cup or tea or soup?
No idea what kind of smoke/fume it makes thou...

I cant see a person anywhere.

 

[georgiajean]

According to this article, from back in January, they started at "the Kals." Not sure if that is another name for something we have already discussed.

Death on Austria's Highest Mountain: What Happened on Grossglockner? » Explorersweb

Last weekend, a climb ended in tragedy on 3,798m Grossglockner, Austria’s highest mountain. We examine what went wrong.

explorersweb.com

 

[georgiajean]

I feel immensely sorry for the rescuers. They all did their best. The helicopter that landed as high as it could. The six people who had to lower her body down by 600 meters. In this video, the alpine guide, Peter S, at 6:45 min, says that the chance of her surviving had Thomas stayed with her would have been way higher. He is even showing how to keep a person warm in the mountains. You can see that this guide is mourning. So is the rescuer that was interviewed.

(You can switch auto-captions into English there. It is a short but good video).

This was an amazing find. Thank you. Well worth watching and reading the translated captions. So very sad.

 

[georgiajean]

View attachment 630994
Anyone has any idea what could it be?
View attachment 630995
These are not airplane fumes cause its such a weird straight line?
At first I thought that maybe the hot air coming out of the thermos with hot tea in it but that wouldnt be so thick and tall right?
But it is kinda where they may be expected to be at the time judging by the headlamps lights later.

This is where they are later:
View attachment 630996

2 hours 10 minutes difference:

View attachment 630997

Here is their progress between 18:10 / 18:30 / 19:00:

View attachment 630998

Theyre clearly moving up:

View attachment 631000

View attachment 631001

Seriously, what is this?
What could cause this?
Hot water? Burning something? Heating something?

That brown-grey foggy looking cloud is with my best guess a drop of something on the camera lens, but the white thing isnt.

With full mountain's perspective:

View attachment 631003

I dont have full confidence in my ability to accurately say where Fruhs is, but judging by the videos somewhere there...

View attachment 631008

IF we can be sure after all that timing with 1:30 AM is accurate.

I tried to did my best with MS Paint but what it even tells apart from what we were kinda able to tell before?
There was absolutely no reason to think, assume, hope or even dream of making it safely up and down.
Surely they were doing great considering how that horrific route had to look like but no way. Ive said it so many times and I will probably repeat it few times more: no way that at 10:30 PM anyone could consider that climb goes well.

16:00 (4:00 PM) is when, according to the weather archive there was no wind - it was extremely strong hour before and went back to being windy with sunset hour later. So it makes sense that some sort of smoke would travel straight up.

THANK YOU for the efforts you put in to create these images and comparisons! Really excellent work. Makes it much easier to grasp what was happening over the course of the night. Seems like the most logical and safest action at the time would have been to shelter and get into the emergency equipment they brought, to survive the night. They could not go back, and could not go forward together. They could have both survived. A needless death.

 

[georgiajean]

That thing is visible there only once, at 4:00 PM, on that day, it doesnt show up any other day or any other time of that day.
To me it looks like smoke or vaporizing water, but its so weirdly solid. Basically only smoke that looks like this I can think of is from the incense sticks. No wind, no movement and it goes like that, thin, straight column up for like 10-20 inches, then it fades.
Not sure about the water or thermos. As far as I recall people opening these its like breathing cloud, just much bigger, it tends to go all cloudy right away, not shape into a column. And it would have to be pretty thick to be visible like that.
Some vids of people cooking on outside stoves in winter have cloudy like smoke/vaporized water going on, but theyre not doing it on this altitude Im pretty sure.

Maybe that was their lunch/dinner time?
And possibly they had one of these tiny, ultra light tourist stoves where you put a small tablet in and have it burn for 10 mins so you can heat a cup or tea or soup?
No idea what kind of smoke/fume it makes thou...

I cant see a person anywhere.

I had seen that plume when I was reviewing the webcams, and dismissed it as a weird aberration You have made me wonder now, what that was. I originally thought it was some snow being thrown up by wind, but that doesn't make any sense now.

I wonder if there are images from other web cams, different perspectives, that show the same?

 

[RedHaus]

Seriously, what is this?
What could cause this?
Hot water? Burning something? Heating something?

Fascinating find!

I think we need to adjust our perspective of the size of this plume and its possible distance from Grossglockner.

It could be a very large plume, say 5-10 feet wide to even be visible on the Cam. And it could be far away from the mountain.

My guess is its a large burn of something, in the valley - like a home fireplace? And because the air is so still it stays as a perfectly verticle plume.

The fact it remains the same with KG's and TP's headlamps further up slope tells me this has nothing to do with them

IMO.

 

[RedHaus]

Have been seeking out information from the week after Kerstin died.

An article from Jan, with more information/details.

Exposure Death of 33-Year-Old Alpinist on Austria's Grossglockner Sparks Police Investigation - SnowBrains

A 33-year-old Austrian woman tragically lost her life during a high-altitude ascent of the Grossglockner, Austria’s tallest peak at 3,798 meters (12,461 feet), over the weekend. Accompanied by her 36-year-old partner, the pair set off on Saturday, January 18, early in the morning from Kals...

snowbrains.com

Another article from Jan. Spurensuche nach Tod auf Großglockner

A few more details in this article from Jan. Bergsteigerin erfror auf Großglockner

This!

"Mountaineering experts have weighed in, including Glockner guide Peter Suntinger, who emphasized the extreme danger of the couple’s situation in.

“In these circumstances and after such a long tour in the middle of the night, descending over the summit was madness. " [emphasis by me]

I wonder if TP is a mad (i.e. crazy) man.

 

[beubeubeu]

Fascinating find!

I think we need to adjust our perspective of the size of this plume and its possible distance from Grossglockner.

My guess would be that if it comes from right behing these stones, its less than one feet wide but maybe bit thicker than the source cause kinda expanding in the air?

It could be a very large plume, say 5-10 feet wide to even be visible on the Cam. And it could be far away from the mountain.

But there is nothing there. Not in line, not behind. Houses are much much lower and far away. Smoke cant be that straight far from the source.

So that house would have to be right behind, like:

Or one of these big chimneys that are taller than anything around them - but there are no big chimneys there and such smoke would be there constantly, or at least on regular basis.

The fact it remains the same with KG's and TP's headlamps further up slope tells me this has nothing to do with them

It doesnt remain there. Its only visible in one picture from 4:00 PM on 18th of January. No other day, no other hour as much as I clicked, and I clicked a lot.
I pasted the circles with their lights on the screenshot with fume to show thats on their route and kinda in time they would be somewhere there.

Only that brownish-grey cloud remains for some time, as the others like it, but thats some dust/drop of water on the lense, other like that show up from time to time. But nothing like this white smoke.

 

[RedHaus]

...Linking once again

Death on Austria's Highest Mountain: What Happened on Grossglockner? » Explorersweb

Last weekend, a climb ended in tragedy on 3,798m Grossglockner, Austria’s highest mountain. We examine what went wrong.

explorersweb.com

RSBM

"Mountain guide Peter Suntinger, who has climbed Grossglockner 200 times, gave his opinion to Kleinezeitung.

...[He] says...the moment he [TP] left the woman alone, she was not going to make it. “I only leave a person there if I’m sure that I, or a rescue team, will be back within one hour,”"

I still believe TP did not know there was a CCTV (and now we know there are 4!) tracking him.

He got caught being evil. IMO.

 

[beubeubeu]

Oh, so nevermind, it has to be airplane fume. Extremely odd angle for an an airplane fume but since its there too at same time it has to be it.

 

[RedHaus]

(You can switch auto-captions into English there. It is a short but good video).

Wow.

This is a compelling and heartbraking video summary of this case.

I sure hope the prosecution will play this video and have mountain guide Peter Suntinger on the witness stand in February.

TP's actions and inactions are unexplainable, IMO.

 

[beubeubeu]

Here is confirmation that heli was there at 11:00 PM (23:00)

From this cam: Heiligenblut / Zirbenhof - Blick zum Großglockner - Foto-Webcam.eu

And this: Lucknerhaus - Blick zum Großglockner - Foto-Webcam.eu

Heli at 7:10 AM:

From this cam: Adlersruhe / Blick nach Westen zum Großglockner - Foto-Webcam.eu

And from the other side:

Cam: Heiligenblut / Zirbenhof - Blick zum Großglockner - Foto-Webcam.eu

Also... who would have thought?

So Thomas says everything was okay and thats why he havent tried to alert the helicopter.
But lights say that they basically havent moved between 22:00 and 22:30.
Lights were not visible past that point from the other cam.
Here that light is pretty much stuck in same place, just one and if it slightly moved, it cannot be more than 2-3 metres.

 

[DustysMom]

I feel immensely sorry for the rescuers. They all did their best. The helicopter that landed as high as it could. The six people who had to lower her body down by 600 meters. In this video, the alpine guide, Peter S, at 6:45 min, says that the chance of her surviving had Thomas stayed with her would have been way higher. He is even showing how to keep a person warm in the mountains. You can see that this guide is mourning. So is the rescuer that was interviewed.

(You can switch auto-captions into English there. It is a short but good video).

I can’t figure out how to translate the captions to English- any tips?

 

[beubeubeu]

Widok z Lucknerhaus:

18:00 - nothing

18:10 - light visible

18:20

18:30 - clouds over the top.
18:40 - clouds

19:00 - ???

So there were other climbers there at such time and with such weather?
Two people going down?

19:30 - theyre descending

At 20:00 theyre not visible from Lucknerhouse cam:

BUT THEY ARE ON ADLER'S HUT CAM:

Thats not random light, these are people going down. Similar lights are visible down the mountain not long after sundown on other days.
Whos that? Were there questioned by cops?
Does that mean that there was other pair of people also trying to climb Grossglockner via Studlgrat who also decided to try such an overwhelming climb, also went up too late but at some point decided to descend.

Ehm... how confident we are that it was just Thomas and Kerstin and not more people, some of which at some point decided to try go down... or started going down after something happened?

That's 9:00 PM / 21:00, zoomed:

 

[RedHaus]

I can’t figure out how to translate the captions to English- any tips?

Yes. I struggled at first. too. Click on the YouTube logo on the video embedded in the WS post. That takes you to the video on YouTube. Once there, click on the Settings gear icon. Click on Closed Caption to turn it on and select English.

 

[beubeubeu]

My eyes hurt so I really dont want to do this frame by frame, but this is the progress seen via Luckner's cam:

18:10 vs 22:30, so 30 mins before heli showed up.
This is how much they've climbed.

For better context, bigger picture.
That red dot is how much progress theyve made in FOUR HOURS and TWENTY MINUTES.
Thats 260 minutes.

For Thomas that still meant everything is fine.
Well enough to ignore the heli.
Thanks to cams and excellent weather data we know that visibility at some hours went non-existent, then it cleared slightly for a bit so heli went there later.

And that red line visible here may be the first heli that passed them earlier: