Austria - Thomas Plamberger leaves gf, Kerstin Gurtner to freeze to death on Austria's tallest mountain - charged with manslaughter - Jan.19/2025

[RedHaus]

Most people arent dangerous, narcissistic sociopaths so they dont assume or consider that others are, especially their partners - some are tragically wrong.

RSBM
I couldn't agree with you more!

The dynamics of a relationship with a narcissist, especially a gaslighter who lacks empathy and is manipulative, can be very destructive to the partner. And as I suspect in this case, can be fatal.

Perhaps Thomas was tired of Kersten and wanted to 'get rid' of her. Has another partner of his met a similar fate or disappeared?

The fact Thomas completed his goal to summit before calling for help for Kersten signals to me that he IS a narcissist.

Unless I see evidence that help was more accessible by descending the other side of the summit, I suspect that excuse of Thomas' will disintegrate during his trial.

I'm just very sad for Kersten.

IMO.

 

[RedHaus]

The DM, as usual, seems to have jumped on this case with greater detail, presuming their data is accurate.

Here is their graphic of the ascent route and Thomas' descent route, along with a more detailed timeline of events.

There are differences in the DM timeline, as compared to what was reported previously. In particular:

1. Did Thomas' intentionally ignore rescuers attempt to help (a phone call and a helicopter) at 10:50pm? Or did he not know how dire the situation was?

2. Did Thomas not contact LE until 4 hours (at 12:35am) after Kersten was unable to continue? What did he report, if not a cry for help? And why did he wait so long?

3. Did Thomas leave for help (over the summit) at 2am, 1.5 hours later? And why on earth would he leave Kersten if he'd spoken with LE 1.5 hours earlier?

4. Per the DM reporting, Thomas did not officially call for help until 3:30am. He wasn't even with Kersten. For the life of me that data point alone is disturbing.

It appears to me that Thomas did not know there was CCTV trained on that mountain resulting in clear video of their head lamps with time stamps.

My guess is if there was no CCTV, Thomas may have gotten away with claiming Kersten's death was a tragic accident. I'm glad he was caught!

IMO.


Seems as if Tho

Mountaineer who left partner to die says 'tragedy left him

Thomas Plamberger, 36, an experienced climber, is alleged to have left Kerstin Gurtner, 33, on the Grossglockner mountain in January last year as temperatures plunged to minus 20C.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Twick]

I just wondered why she even went. It seems like she wasn't experienced for this type of hike.

“It’ll be a fun bonding experience, trust me!”

 

[RedHaus]

FWIW, before Thomas' FB page was taken down yesterday, I noted three things:

1. All his posts were announcements about him achieving a mountaineering goal and written in the third person, which seemed odd to me. But it appears he was indeed an experienced climber.

2. Thomas summitted Grossglocker summer 2022, so he knew the mountain.

3. His last post was in 2022, although more recent posts may have been deleted before I saw his FB page last Saturday.

IMO.

 

[acutename]

was it something special to be climbing this mountain in January? short days- bad weather... I do not get it.

 

[charminglane]

My usual questions:
Did he have a side piece?
Did he have insurance on Kerstin?

 

[iamshadow21]

My usual questions:
Did he have a side piece?
Did he have insurance on Kerstin?

+ Was she pregnant, or was he worried she might be or become so.

 

[LadyL]

Personally, I know sweet-FA about mountain climbing…but reckon even i’d think to bring emergency equipment and avoid such oppressive weather conditions at night.

Hard to see this as anything other than premeditated.

they had emergency blankets - but he didn't use them for her

 

[Innana]

Where I’m still curious is what triggered the helicopter to be out trying to make contact with them in the first place. The time line with the map of the trail on the mountain above notes they first flew over and tried to make contact with the couple at 10:50 pm via phone. How did the rescuers know to head that way? How did they have his number?

Thoughts to possible answers I came up with: the web cam sparked worry to someone watching knowing the current conditions, they had to register with a phone number to start climbing, and/or the change in weather had rescuers out looking for those who registered to climb.

However, just guesses. Anyone actually know? Seems odd without the couple contacting for help first, they would already be out looking for them. Curious.

 

[iamshadow21]

Where I’m still curious is what triggered the helicopter to be out trying to make contact with them in the first place. The time line with the map of the trail on the mountain above notes they first flew over and tried to make contact with the couple at 10:50 pm via phone. How did the rescuers know to head that way? How did they have his number?

Thoughts to possible answers I came up with: the web cam sparked worry to someone watching knowing the current conditions, they had to register with a phone number to start climbing, and/or the change in weather had rescuers out looking for those who registered to climb.

However, just guesses. Anyone actually know? Seems odd without the couple contacting for help first, they would already be out looking for them. Curious.

Did the climb have some kind of manned check-in point at the start? Because not returning at the declared time could have been a trigger.

MOO

 

[beubeubeu]

Experienced alpine climber.
He took her on a 12.460ft climb in January well aware that she has no experience in high-altitude hiking.
Experienced alpine climber took his girlfriend to hike 12.460ft summit, in January either allowing or suggesting her to wear snowboard boots.
Snowboard boots. To climb 12k footer. In Winter.
He climbed that mountain before and he climbed high-altitudes in Winter. Yeah.

So... gotta wonder, how many experienced high-altitute winter climbing enthusiasts out there dragged their inexperienced girlfriends/boyfriends/spouses/friends/family members on over 12ft winter climb.
How many did that encouraging them to do so even without appropriate gear?
How many did that allowing them to do so without appropriate gear?

All of them? Half of them? 20%? 10%? Or next to none?

No newbie mistakes filter can be applied here.

He has quite a crowd cheering in his defense.
Interestingly they dont think that being more knowledgeable, experienced, aware, stronger makes them morally responsible for safety and well being of even the people closest to them.
Interestingly it seems like all people with online traceable experience in climbing are not on their side. I wonder why.

JMO if that guy has some proofs and examples from the past that his iq is well below average and he has some serious issues with acting reasonable and predicting consequences of his own actions then I will buy the theory that he's only guilty of negligence and maybe even shouldnt be punished, but taken care of, protected from his own limitations, put into custody to the rest of his life to make sure that he wont hurt himself or others again.
Shouldnt be hard to prove that in court I guess, that he's not capable of taking this responsibility cause he was tragically unable to predict the possible outcome, seize the risk and just ended up in a loop of bad decisions that were getting worse every time and totally horrible in such challenging and stressfull circumstances.
If he doesnt have that, then again, JMO but I see picture perfect malignant narcissist who knew what hes was doing, he wanted to get away with it and he ultimately will get away with it, as they almost always do.

 

[getthefax]

One thing I can think the defense might try to say--perhaps the phone wouldn't function if it was in an external pocket, due to it being so cold, so it behaved as if it were off (happened to me once, at sea level, in 0 degree weather in Boston!).
Could also explain why he didn't call for help.

Not sure this sort of defense would hold up, but it may be one strategy used. MOO.

 

[beubeubeu]

Where I’m still curious is what triggered the helicopter to be out trying to make contact with them in the first place. The time line with the map of the trail on the mountain above notes they first flew over and tried to make contact with the couple at 10:50 pm via phone. How did the rescuers know to head that way?

They saw climbers who appeared stuck on the mountain cause their headlights weren't moving.
As for phone number - they located their car on the parking lot. It may also be connected to making entry or parking spot payment.
Not sure if they were passing any checking points where people are expected to leave their conntact info.

Allegedly there is pretty good phone reception there, on the mountain.

 

[beubeubeu]

One thing I can think the defense might try to say--perhaps the phone wouldn't function if it was in an external pocket, due to it being so cold, so it behaved as if it were off (happened to me once, at sea level, in 0 degree weather in Boston!).
Could also explain why he didn't call for help.

Not sure this sort of defense would hold up, but it may be one strategy used. MOO.

No cold is gonna turn phone in silent mode. His phone wasn't off, it was turned silent at some point, after midnight.
Doesnt explain why he wasnt trying to sos with their headlights from the peak when theyve send helicopter.

 

[Charlot123]

Analysis of the situation provided by the Climbing journal - including several guides' opinion. We had many tragic deaths in the mountains recently. The article describes the dynamics of mountain climbing. I found it illuminating.

Please pay attention to the helicopter rescue insurance part explained in the article.

It makes me wonder if besides poor planning and ego, it was greed that made Plamberger wave off the first helicopter at 10:30 pm when Gurtner was very much alive, and not answer his phone. (I hope this article is allowed.)

Climber Faces Homicide Charges After His Partner Dies. When Does a Bad Decision Become a Crime?

A 36-year-old Austrian climber could be jailed for up to three years after leaving his girlfriend to die on the nation's highest peak.

www.climbing.com

 

[RedHaus]

+ Was she pregnant, or was he worried she might be or become so.

I thought that exact same thing last night.

But LE would've done an autopsy on Kersten, right? Or maybe not... Maybe only the two of them knew she was pregnant, if she was that is.

If LE knew Kersten was pregnant, wouldn't there be double manslaughter charges?

IMO.

 

[RedHaus]

was it something special to be climbing this mountain in January? short days- bad weather... I do not get it.

And at night for Pete's sake. Why?

I get starting a climb in early morning hours (e.g. 2 or 3am) to summit at peak time of snow conditions and for time to descend in daylight, etc.

But starting a climb at 6:00pm in January?

Unless it was so calculated by Thomas he thought at night no one would see them?

 

[RedHaus]

Analysis of the situation provided by the Climbing journal - including several guides' opinion. We had many tragic deaths in the mountains recently. The article describes the dynamics of mountain climbing. I found it illuminating.

Please pay attention to the helicopter rescue insurance part explained in the article.

It makes me wonder if besides poor planning and ego, it was greed that made Plamberger wave off the first helicopter at 10:30 pm when Gurtner was very much alive, and not answer his phone. (I hope this article is allowed.)

Climber Faces Homicide Charges After His Partner Dies. When Does a Bad Decision Become a Crime?

A 36-year-old Austrian climber could be jailed for up to three years after leaving his girlfriend to die on the nation's highest peak.

www.climbing.com

A fantastic read, @Charlot123! Thank you.

It is illuminating, especially the results of the author's deep research. And the mountaineering experts' opinions....

The author's report puts all MSM timelines to shame! If correct, this wasn't a 9 hour ordeal, it was a 21 hour ordeal. OMG!

"They began their climb at 6:45 a.m, attempting to summit the peak via its Southwest Ridge, known as the Stüdlgrat, which roughly goes at UIAA III-IV..."

"By 1:30 p.m. Plamberger and Gurtner had arrived at what is known as the Frühstücksplatzerl (“Breakfast Spot”) at 3,550 meters (11,647ft) on the Stüdlgrat."

"At this point, the defense’s account skips ahead some nine hours, to 10:30 p.m., when the two climbers are still climbing toward the summit."

So if this reporter is correct, this wasn't a planned overnight climb, it became one. IMO that may be why the rescue helicopter was checking on them.

ETA: one more key new data point is that Kersten was carrying a snowboard on her backpack. She'd plan to ski the descent, hence her foot wear. So, when Thomas left her without removing her backpack... she also still wore her board.

I climbed a glacier to ski down - hiked in ski boots, carried skis and poles. So I get this is a thing. But I can't figure out why he'd let her carry her board for so long, especially if she was declining??

 

[beubeubeu]

And at night for Pete's sake. Why?

Cause during the day there is higher risk of avalanche, slipping and so on.

 

[beubeubeu]

Please pay attention to the helicopter rescue insurance part explained in the article.

It makes me wonder if besides poor planning and ego, it was greed that made Plamberger wave off the first helicopter at 10:30 pm when Gurtner was very much alive, and not answer his phone. (I hope this article is allowed.)

Climber Faces Homicide Charges After His Partner Dies. When Does a Bad Decision Become a Crime?

A 36-year-old Austrian climber could be jailed for up to three years after leaving his girlfriend to die on the nation's highest peak.

www.climbing.com

Greed? Alpine club membership costs less than 100E/year.
That would be Ebenezer Scrooge level of stingyness if they didnt have at least that. Unless he wasnt afraid to think clearly and focused on being afraid they will charge him arms and legs cause they will deem that negligence caused the outcome.

Also why would he bother?
As he still was able to walk down by himself and only she needed rescue, and he felt like there is nothing to blame on him, its only her who needs help cause of medical emergency or maybe even her wish to still try to summit - she would get that bill. So what? He was trying to save her money?
But using thermo blanket that they already had would "cost" just few euros. Still no need to waste that much money? Or at this point he switched from one way of confused thinking to another way of confused thinking before few hours later switching into pretty unconfused thinking as it came to his own way down?