Austria - Thomas Plamberger leaves gf, Kerstin Gurtner to freeze to death on Austria's tallest mountain - charged with manslaughter - Jan.19/2025

[georgiajean]

I'm not sure that "our" means poster and Kerstin, though it might.
The German caption google translates correctly: "Unfortunately, you didn't get to see the summit cross. Fate had other plans."
IMO, the poster has previously hiked to the top. Kerstin never got to.

Thank you for helping translate it. I am no longer confused! It never occurred to me someone would post a photo that she wasn't part of, but now it does.

 

[georgiajean]

It makes it worse though because he had to have seen that sign on his previous hikes of the mountain and knew all about that checkpoint.

How does their timing on their route compare to the warning on the sign?

Hard to say, because the timing of 3 hours is from the Studlhutte .
Austria - Thomas Plamberger leaves gf, Kerstin Gurtner to freeze to death on Austria's tallest mountain - charged with manslaughter - Jan.19/2025 In the video shared in this post, the climbers share their journey from the same parking lot, and that takes generally 2-3 hours to get to the Studlhutte , in good conditions, and that most people sleep there and start early in morning. But Studlhutte is closed in winter, so Kerstin and TP did not have that option.

In the video shared in this post Austria - Thomas Plamberger leaves gf, Kerstin Gurtner to freeze to death on Austria's tallest mountain - charged with manslaughter - Jan.19/2025 There is also a Winter hut, without services where these hikers stayed. Their timing is more accurate to what Kerstin and TP's should have been, since they were hiking in winter.

From all we know so far, Kerstin and TP did not stay at the Winter Hut. They hiked straight through.
So, 3 hours from parking lot to the Hut, and 3 hours to the Breakfast ledge would have been 12:30 pm if they left at 6:30 am as reported. So they were 1 hour past the deadline in my estimation.

 

[beubeubeu]

It makes it worse though because he had to have seen that sign on his previous hikes of the mountain and knew all about that checkpoint.

How does their timing on their route compare to the warning on the sign?

Its incomparable cause that estimation has to be made for safe, so moderately challenging weather conditions. With rougher, the estimated time of the remaining part of hike prolongs significantly.

With starting point at Lucknerhaus parking lot.
2-3 hours to Stüdlhütte.
2-3 hours to start of Stüdlgrat route.
Climbing from the start of the Stüdlgrat route (usually from the Stüdlhütte) to the Frühstücksplatzerl takes about 4-6 hours for experienced climbers, as it's roughly 1,000 meters (3,300 ft) of elevation gain on the ridge itself, but total time depends on fitness, conditions, and route pace...
So starting from 7:00 AM
Would be approx 11:00 AM - 1:00 PM to get to Frühstücksplatz
These are NOT winter time estimations, and they did it with not much of a delay.
But that leaves not even full 4 hours before sundown. They had bit more than three.
Best possible scenario, Frühstücksplatz to the summit is 3 hours. Can go up to 5 hours, and were talking highely experienced and fit climbers.
So even if they had nice April weather, they would at the very best made it to the summit right before sundown and had to descend in dark.
Normal route descend takes another three hours at least. HAD to be expected much longer in Winter.

 

[beubeubeu]

This is from the memorial page. Wir trauern um Kerstin Gurtner I am very confused about the caption. Can anyone translate the words written on the photo?
The caption indicates they climbed Grossglockner in Sept 2024. There are no photos of this on her FB page though.

View attachment 630597

Unfortunately, you were not granted to see this cross on the summit. Fate had different plans.

The caption below says that pic was taken on 30.09.2024 by people who added it.

 

[georgiajean]

And th

Its incomparable cause that estimation has to be made for safe, so moderately challenging weather conditions. With rougher, the estimated time of the remaining part of hike prolongs significantly.

With starting point at Lucknerhaus parking lot.
2-3 hours to Stüdlhütte.
2-3 hours to start of Stüdlgrat route.
Climbing from the start of the Stüdlgrat route (usually from the Stüdlhütte) to the Frühstücksplatzerl takes about 4-6 hours for experienced climbers, as it's roughly 1,000 meters (3,300 ft) of elevation gain on the ridge itself, but total time depends on fitness, conditions, and route pace...
So starting from 7:00 AM
Would be approx 11:00 AM - 1:00 PM to get to Frühstücksplatz
These are NOT winter time estimations, and they did it with not much of a delay.
But that leaves not even full 4 hours before sundown. They had bit more than three.
Best possible scenario, Frühstücksplatz to the summit is 3 hours. Can go up to 5 hours, and were talking highely experienced and fit climbers.
So even if they had nice April weather, they would at the very best made it to the summit right before sundown and had to descend in dark.
Normal route descend takes another three hours at least. HAD to be expected much longer in Winter.

Adding to that, the descent along the "normal" route is not easy in daylight. I can't imagine doing it in the dark, even with good headlamps. I understand that TP did the descent solo in the dark. As someone said up thread, he was a Beast.

 

[georgiajean]

Unfortunately, you were not granted to see this cross on the summit. Fate had different plans.

I am wondering if TP posted that photo. He had climbed it in 2024....

 

[Queen of the Winter Night]

I'm starting to wonder if it was not pre-meditated but still cruel and selfish and narcissistic. If being an experienced mountain climber who can pull off doing such dangerous things in even more dangerous conditions and times is something he considers a core part of his identity and personality...maybe when Kerstin began to struggle, he made the decision in his mind that he was going to push through himself and get help for her only afterwards because he would be embarrassed to call emergency services and not complete the mountain. Even if that meant sacrificing his girlfriends life, because his identity as "expert mountain man" was more important than anything or anyone (it's sad that I'm sure we all know people who are actually like this with their careers or hobbies....).

I am curious though...they did not use the emergency equipment with them, did he leave it with Kerstin or did he take it with him after he left her?

 

[sunspun]

I'm starting to wonder if it was not pre-meditated but still cruel and selfish and narcissistic. If being an experienced mountain climber who can pull off doing such dangerous things in even more dangerous conditions and times is something he considers a core part of his identity and personality...maybe when Kerstin began to struggle, he made the decision in his mind that he was going to push through himself and get help for her only afterwards because he would be embarrassed to call emergency services and not complete the mountain. Even if that meant sacrificing his girlfriends life, because his identity as "expert mountain man" was more important than anything or anyone (it's sad that I'm sure we all know people who are actually like this with their careers or hobbies....).

I am curious though...they did not use the emergency equipment with them, did he leave it with Kerstin or did he take it with him after he left her?

He took it with him. I guess he didn't want to take the risk of being caught without it on the slim chance he ended up needing it. Just in case!

Can't be too careful, right?

 

[beubeubeu]

I'm starting to wonder if it was not pre-meditated but still cruel and selfish and narcissistic. If being an experienced mountain climber who can pull off doing such dangerous things in even more dangerous conditions and times is something he considers a core part of his identity and personality...maybe when Kerstin began to struggle, he made the decision in his mind that he was going to push through himself and get help for her only afterwards because he would be embarrassed to call emergency services and not complete the mountain. Even if that meant sacrificing his girlfriends life, because his identity as "expert mountain man" was more important than anything or anyone (it's sad that I'm sure we all know people who are actually like this with their careers or hobbies....).

I am curious though...they did not use the emergency equipment with them, did he leave it with Kerstin or did he take it with him after he left her?

Other climbers would know.
He had some companions seen in the pics.
If there wasnt like one time or occasional things, but pretty consistent companionship, they would know.
Maybe thats why he took her and only her on Stüdlgrat.
Bunch of people visible climbing along them on pics from Dachstein... but that was through easier route, on easier mountain, at reasonable time of the day and year (even though it was still Winter-ish landscape), with pretty good weather, with the gear and ropes...

 

[beubeubeu]

He took it with him. I guess he didn't want to take the risk of being caught without it on the slim chance he ended up needing it. Just in case!

Can't be too careful, right?

Jesus... right. There is no mention that they had TWO sets of these protective cocoons, hovewer theyre called.

 

[Marie A]

I don’t think this was something TP set out to do to harm his girlfriend but I do think he was crazy to attempt this with a novice in horrific conditions- the dead of winter in darkness.
I wonder if TP doesn’t have bipolar. EXTREME SPORTS are one of the symptoms of diagnosis. A large number of those with bipolar participate in extreme sports.
Or phrased otherwise, many to most of those who participate in true extreme sports have bipolar disorder.
I have known other extreme mountain climbers who have been diagnosed with this awful disease but I never knew them to take off in such ridiculous and harsh conditions.
This is such a ludicrous case to me because this is not an easy endeavor even in the best of conditions- definitely not for anyone who isn’t trained and conditioned and who hasn’t scaled numerous lower peaks.
The manic phase of bipolar disorder lends itself to extreme bursts of energy and extremely risky behaviors.
It’s easy enough to become exhausted when mountain climbing under the best of conditions. It’s amazing that this climb even took place.
All IMHO

 

[RedHaus]

But why then didn’t she use her phone to call 911? Even push buttons to signal SOS?

For those not aware: Apple, Android.

...they did not use the emergency equipment with them, did he leave it with Kerstin or did he take it with him after he left her?

He took it with him. I guess he didn't want to take the risk of being caught without it on the slim chance he ended up needing it.

And the question then may be 'why did TP take this life saving emergency equipment with him?' To ensure his life was saved? Because they were his, not hers? Because KG was already dead / dying??

There is no mention that they had TWO sets of these protective cocoons...

Bivvy Sack is the 'protective cocoon"
Thermal Emergency Blanket is another tool.

About $20 USD for both....

ETA: IMO & fix format

 

[Charlot123]

First pictures of woman who froze to death on mountain after boyfriend left

He says he was trying to get help when he left her

metro.co.uk

Nothing new here except for the fact that the two lights were moving at 6, got “stranded” at 8:50 and only one was on when Thomas left Kerstin.

 

[georgiajean]

I am posting this article from a Reddit Thread at the time of the fateful climb. So it is accurate information released at that time. A lot of information that I haven't seen in more recent articles.

This is another article and discussion posted on Reddit, from the time of the incident, with additional details left out of recent accounts.
"The Kronen Zeitung uncovered that the 36-year-old man is a seasoned alpinist with numerous challenging alpine and mixed climbs under his belt. He has summited 40 peaks over 4,000 meters and uses Großglockner as his training ground. He has crossed the mountain solo, climbed the Pallavicini Couloir, the Aschenbrenner route, and the Mayrlramp on the north face. He is well-acquainted with the Stüdlgrat route and has previously guided several female climbing partners on it, based on his social media posts, some of whom were first-timers on the mountain."

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t think this was something TP set out to do to harm his girlfriend but I do think he was crazy to attempt this with a novice in horrific conditions- the dead of winter in darkness.
I wonder if TP doesn’t have bipolar. EXTREME SPORTS are one of the symptoms of diagnosis. A large number of those with bipolar participate in extreme sports.
Or phrased otherwise, many to most of those who participate in true extreme sports have bipolar disorder.
I have known other extreme mountain climbers who have been diagnosed with this awful disease but I never knew them to take off in such ridiculous and harsh conditions.
This is such a ludicrous case to me because this is not an easy endeavor even in the best of conditions- definitely not for anyone who isn’t trained and conditioned and who hasn’t scaled numerous lower peaks.
The manic phase of bipolar disorder lends itself to extreme bursts of energy and extremely risky behaviors.
It’s easy enough to become exhausted when mountain climbing under the best of conditions. It’s amazing that this climb even took place.
All IMHO

We can’t assume unless we were the psychiatrists who saw him in person.

But, if Thomas had this diagnosis, it was his responsibility to see a psychiatrist, take medications and not get into the mountains where things would get worse. Definitely not take responsibility for others.

Plus, assuming that he could suffer from bipolar disorder would not help him at all now. If he gets homicidal in the mountains, he is a danger to the community that visits the same mountains. So far he is charged for, let us put it so, a chain of idiotic decisions. If during the process he is viewed as a walking danger, it will cross out everything in his life.

I think he behaved pretty preplanned, though…

 

[RedHaus]

I am posting this article from a Reddit Thread at the time of the fateful climb. So it is accurate information released at that time. A lot of information that I haven't seen in more recent articles.

From this article you linked to, it tells us KG showed faint signs of life at ~5:10am, but 5 hours later, once rescuers got to her, she was deceased from hypothermia.

 

[PNW]

Does anyone know if there’s a certain point the climbers get past on the route where the only option is to summit? Can you always turn around and go back down if you start to feel unwell/know you can’t make it to the top and down again?

 

[RedHaus]

Does anyone know if there’s a certain point the climbers get past on the route where the only option is to summit? Can you always turn around and go back down if you start to feel unwell/know you can’t make it to the top and down again?

From what I understand, on the ascent route TP chose, the 'breakfast spot' is the Go / No-Go decision because one can not easily / feasibly backtrack down the ridge.

TP and KG reached that spot at 1:30pm.

As far as many of us can tell, they arrived at least 1 hour later than the posted sign indicates is safe to continue, with respect to how long it took them to reach the breakfast spot. More ^.

 

[beubeubeu]

Does anyone know if there’s a certain point the climbers get past on the route where the only option is to summit? Can you always turn around and go back down if you start to feel unwell/know you can’t make it to the top and down again?

Frühstücksplatzerl.
Anything above that is steep, ice, stone and series of vertical walls.
Going down may be an option but going down is likely much harder and even riskier.
Considering the circumstances and claim that she started feeling unwell as they were already hours in their way up, with night coming the only available "back down" would be "back down to the better sheltered spot they passed not long before".
And that probably wont be safer course of action. Very much depending on the gear if possible at all. Without ropes and stuff risk of falling would be insane. With no full coop from the other climber AND the gear it would be impossible for a person who feels tired and unwell to go down much at all. It would be like playing russian roulette every minute.
Also timewise, it would take so much more time than going up, and not much less energy, likely even more.
Aand going down the normal route, however hard and challenging IS a route where people are descending from the summit no matter which route they took cause its the easiest and safest (comparing to alternatives) to go down there.
People are not going down through Stüdlgrat on the vids and nobody discussing that climb mentiones going down through Stüdlgrat.

 

[acutename]

Does anyone know if there’s a certain point the climbers get past on the route where the only option is to summit? Can you always turn around and go back down if you start to feel unwell/know you can’t make it to the top and down again?

If you read the posted links at #177 just above, people know certain "times" it should take you to go up the face but since these folks were climbing in darkness anyway, not sure they cared. They were making slow progress compared to average times, and no one else was going onward that day. The links above, if you believe them, say you need to belay down as well- attach ropes to attachment points, which, in the dark/wind/snow might not be super easy to find and if you are hypothermic IMO, tying off to belay would be maybe not possible- you lose your coordination.