Autistic boy banned from Minn. church

[Taximom]

Family finds another church
http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/faith/19059069.html?location_refer=Error

 

[sherri79]

We didn't go to church (or some other places) for 4 yrs as a family because of our dd. Geez, she was only 3 and up at the time and was a major disruption for them and us.

We took turns attending church w/our other children so they wouldn't miss out, and we had our own church at home so she could learn about Jesus too.

Today's churches usually offer many alternatives to sitting in church. Tapes, DVD's, even online video. Sometimes we would go during a slow service and sit in the crying/baby room with her because they had video of the service in there. Besides her maturing a bit, she was also helped w/meds that calmed her down enough to where she could sit (and not like a zombie!) still for a little bit. Now we are able to go and she sits there better than the others half the time!

To this day, we still plan our movements with her.

I don't know why people would want to put themselves through this! I know when we tried, it wasn't worth it because we were wrestling her the whole hour and NOT hearing a thing at church.

On another note, I have 2 acquaintances w/autistic children and they are hyper-autisic-rights people. Sorry, but that's my term for it. Everyone should bend at their child's knee. These people go overboard, IMO, but it's what drives them and I don't get it. I'm thinking these parents in this article might be like that....

i have been unable to find this on a link by itself but on the right is a video. http://kstp.com/article/stories/S448291.shtml?cat=1
on the video it said the church offered to do a special mass in the family's home or to set up a live video feed into another room at the church for the family and mom refused.

 

[southcitymom]

i have been unable to find this on a link by itself but on the right is a video. http://kstp.com/article/stories/S448291.shtml?cat=1
on the video it said the church offered to do a special mass in the family's home or to set up a live video feed into another room at the church for the family and mom refused.

Thanks, sherri. It just sure seems like this Mom is being unreasonable and digging her heels in reactively instead of really taking into account what is best for everyone - her son included.

 

[Floh]

Carol Race said that her husband, John, attended mass at St. Joseph's on Saturday evening without his family and had stayed home Sunday morning because the family wanted to ensure that one parent would be available to care for the children if Carol were arrested.

But as things stood, wouldn't it have been better if this were how things were done when this started?

sorry if i sound incompassionate. without pity.

but people do have the right to protect their children and the elderly shouldn't fear being hurt.

all the above is in my opinion only which is subject to change.

 

[Spazkat9696]

i have been unable to find this on a link by itself but on the right is a video. http://kstp.com/article/stories/S448291.shtml?cat=1
on the video it said the church offered to do a special mass in the family's home or to set up a live video feed into another room at the church for the family and mom refused.

From my side I see "heel digging in" a lot. If you do not approach the family with care and concern from the start making them feel a part of the process you can have major problems. I wonder if they were "told" this is how it's going to be rather then being part of the decision process. Just sitting with the family and working out a solution rather than coming out with force can make a huge difference. Of course now it's a huge fiasco that most likely could have been prevented with some care and compassion from the start. I mean was a restraining order necessary? Cops at the door of the church? Can you even get a restraining order against someone who seem to be functioning at such a level?

 

[Details]

I think anyone who is told there is a restraining order, and still wants to go to the church sounds like a very unreasonable sort - I doubt she was listening to anything or anyone. I don't think it'd make a difference if they came in with "care and concern" or just told them. They've been going to the church for awhile, and I completely do not buy that this was the first time they realized there was a problem - when their son got into a few cars, when he's urinating, when he's needing physical restraints, when he hits a child, etc. - all those times are when they should have realized there's a problem.

The church offered an in home mass - I think that's above and beyond merely care and compassion. Way past what anyone has a right to expect - and they turned it down.

 

[txsvicki]

The parents shouldn't subject other church goers to this behavior during a church service due to safety issues. They should take turns going to church.

 

[hoppyfrog]

Good post, Glow. Obviously this all started before church members came knocking at their door. So far, I can't help but think this Mom is failing to grasp the responsibility that she has to keep her son from menacing fellow members of their congregation. It sounds to me like the church is trying to find a viable solution and the Mom is just digging her heels in and not willing to work towards a mutual fulfilling goal.

Well said, SCM.

Hoppy

 

[XcomSquaddie]

We stopped attending church due to the stress put on my son and others. Movies and most resturants are also pretty much out of the question.

We're usually okay in the cryroom. But my son recently discovered that if he acts up enough, we leave early. So the last couple of weeks he has been behaving very badly. Our TSS team leader reminded us of this, which was something he had stopped doing 3-4 years ago. Needless to say, he's in for a rude awakening next Sunday.

I think we'll even stay late and talk to the priest...

 

[philamena]

IF the boy is dangerous and disruptive, the title of the news article (and this thread ) is misleading. The boy is NOT being denied entrance to church because of his autisim, but because of his behavior. BIG difference.... or I misunderstanding this?

Did you see his picture? Gheezeeee this kid is huge for his age. He looks 18 not 13.
From the article:

... the behavior of Adam, who stands taller than six feet and weighs more than 225 pounds.

 

[Opie]

This hits me from a couple angles. Our son (now married with a family of his own) was what was called "hyperactive" in his childhood. From the time of his baptism until he was nearing school age, we never attempted to take him to church services, knowing that no one would get anything out of it except frustraton. Once we started taking him, a stern look usually did the trick. He was NOT autistic though. Big difference. During all those years we attended 2 different services. A big deal for us was to get a baby sitter and actually attend church together.

On the other hand, we have an autistic grandson (child of our daughter). He has meltdowns, etc. and can be quite a handful. We can usually tell when he is doing well and when he is not, and would never think of taking him to church with us when he is "off."

Speaking from that perspective, it seems the parents are expecting too much of the rest of the congregation. We never felt it appropriate to subject the rest of the parishioners to our hyper son, nor would we expect them to tolerate a meltdown from our autistic grandson. Common courtesy, etc.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Common courtesy is something these parents obviously need a lesson in. I hope their new church will recognize this and gear some sermons their way perhaps.

 

[sherri79]

IF the boy is dangerous and disruptive, the title of the news article (and this thread ) is misleading. The boy is NOT being denied entrance to church because of his autisim, but because of his behavior. BIG difference.... or I misunderstanding this?

Did you see his picture? Gheezeeee this kid is huge for his age. He looks 18 not 13.
From the article:

hey i used the news article title as the title of the thread. :croc::blowkiss:

 

[XcomSquaddie]

The boy is NOT being denied entrance to church because of his autisim, but because of his behavior. BIG difference.... or I misunderstanding this?

You are misunderstanding it, but only a little.

The behaviors that are causing the problems are symptoms of his autism. Essentially, his autism is the behaviors. There is no difference.

With a common cold the symptoms are often sneezing, fever, runny nose, cough, etc.

With autism the symptoms are behavioral and mental. Additionally, the symptoms are extremely varied in intensity and make-up.

If you've had experience with one autistic person it will not always help you when dealing with a different autistic person.

Does that help?

 

[Taximom]

We're usually okay in the cryroom. But my son recently discovered that if he acts up enough, we leave early. So the last couple of weeks he has been behaving very badly. Our TSS team leader reminded us of this, which was something he had stopped doing 3-4 years ago. Needless to say, he's in for a rude awakening next Sunday.

I think we'll even stay late and talk to the priest...

Xcom, this cracked me up because it's exactly what I would do with my kids, autistic or not! lol

 

[SeriouslySearching]

You are misunderstanding it, but only a little.

The behaviors that are causing the problems are symptoms of his autism. Essentially, his autism is the behaviors. There is no difference.

With a common cold the symptoms are often sneezing, fever, runny nose, cough, etc.

With autism the symptoms are behavioral and mental. Additionally, the symptoms are extremely varied in intensity and make-up.

If you've had experience with one autistic person it will not always help you when dealing with a different autistic person.

Does that help?

Yes, that is about as clear as mud to a layman. LOL It even confused me.

 

[XcomSquaddie]

Xcom, this cracked me up because it's exactly what I would do with my kids, autistic or not! lol

. Normally we would too. But he's very clever and he can often pull the wool over our eyes, moreso than our other two kids.

 

[Taximom]

I know what I'm about to say will open up another big can of worms, but these are the kinds of parents that drive me crazy by wanting their child included in typical classrooms. When my dd was younger, there was NO WAY I would even consider asking for that because she would be such a big disruption. Also, she's not at their grade level and wouldn't comprehend the classwork anyway.

Now my dd is much more contained and I don't mind if she's included in a few classes (and the school doesn't either).

I feel for this boy's parents, I really do. Sadly, the world doesn't revolve around their son. THEIR world may revolve around him, but the rest of the world doesn't have to. I think the church did the best they could.

 

[sherri79]

You are misunderstanding it, but only a little.

The behaviors that are causing the problems are symptoms of his autism. Essentially, his autism is the behaviors. There is no difference.

With a common cold the symptoms are often sneezing, fever, runny nose, cough, etc.

With autism the symptoms are behavioral and mental. Additionally, the symptoms are extremely varied in intensity and make-up.

If you've had experience with one autistic person it will not always help you when dealing with a different autistic person.

Does that help?

it helps to a point but not so much in this case. i understand the behavior of the child is linked to his disability but his parents are not disabled. at least some of his behavior can be controlled if his parents make that choice.

in this case...
the child can not be held responsible for his failure to control his bladder. his parents can be faulted for failure to use depends.

the child can not be faulted for finding comfort in the sound of a car motor. his parents can be faulted for not keeping him out of the drivers seat of a car.

i could go on but i made my point. to me the child is not the problem, the parents are.

 

[XcomSquaddie]

it helps to a point but not so much in this case. i understand the behavior of the child is linked to his disability but his parents are not disabled. at least some of his behavior can be controlled if his parents make that choice.

in this case...
the child can not be held responsible for his failure to control his bladder. his parents can be faulted for failure to use depends.

the child can not be faulted for finding comfort in the sound of a car motor. his parents can be faulted for not keeping him out of the drivers seat of a car.

i could go on but i made my point. to me the child is not the problem, the parents are.

If you've read my other posts in this thread, I agree with you one hundred percent. It is obvious that the parents are not capable of controlling his behavior. Thus, they should not attend mass.

It sucks, but life does that sometimes.