Autopsy Report - UCF Osteological Analysis-Duct Tape Info

[USARDOG]

or i was thinking ....straddle her putting weight with her knees over caylee's arms....sitting on her....and then apply the duct tape over the mouth....:furious:...if caylee was tossing her head from side to side...to struggle....it would take several peices of duct tape to get it over and onto her face and nose....untill she passed out....

This shows no use of the Chloroform... and would be a lot of work... Not like KC to do anything that involves work.

 

[jon_burrows]

or i was thinking ....straddle her putting weight with her knees over caylee's arms....sitting on her....and then apply the duct tape over the mouth....:furious:...if caylee was tossing her head from side to side...to struggle....it would take several peices of duct tape to get it over and onto her face and nose....untill she passed out....

Yes---I agree. As if this crime wasn't heinous enough, it would have been very painful to have Casey's knee's digging into Caylee's arms. When you're on your knees most of your body weight goes to the knees. That's a lot of weight bearing down on a toddler's arms. :furious:

 

[USARDOG]

Yes---I agree. As if this crime wasn't heinous enough, it would have been very painful to have Casey's knee's digging into Caylee's arms. When you're on your knees most of your body weight goes to the knees. That's a lot of weight bearing down on a toddler's arms. :furious:

If I might ask, what evidence has lead you to this consclusion?

 

[snow_walker]

The thing with chloroform is not that it is hard to make, it is dangerous to make.. it blows up easily unless it is kept cold .. basically you take a glass container, put in some cold water, and ice, add the shock powder (stuff you put in swimming pools,bleach stuff, calcium hypochlorite),then you add acetone. It heats up, it seperates into 3 layers, the bottom of which is your chloroform, and if your lucky and don't get overcome with the fumes, or blow yourself up, you pump that out and store it in a glass container.

I cannot see KC doing this. Perhaps GA could or would do it, but that seems a stretch too.
Perhaps a friend of hers made it and she took some.. perhaps she used it to try to fumigate the car with.. who knows what she may have done with it? But it really is not much good as an anesthetic, not the home made stuff anyway, too unstable and who would have that sitting around in their bedroom? And it is very difficult for the average person to buy such stuff, although she may have stolen it from (for example) a high school chem lab.

Perhaps she just had some sitting in the car and it spilt

 

[jon_burrows]

If I might ask, what evidence has lead you to this consclusion?

Just speculation like we're all doing since the murder was deemed to be by 'undetermined means'. If you read up a few posts you can see where we're giving scenarios on how Casey could have applied the tape without actually binding her hands with something.

 

[TakeNote]

i understand the high levels of chloroform in the trunk.....but that would have to suggest that the killing would have been in the trunk of the car....if she used some to put over caylee's face to breath in...why would the choloroform be so high in the trunk...that part i still dont understand....she wouldnt of needed very much of it...why would it be so consintrated in the trunk...so far there has not been any release of info that suggested chloroform any where else but the trunk of the car.....just very weird...

 

[static]

I agree with everything in this except for her making it. She is not smart enough to do so without knocking herself out in the process and I think there would be evidence of the chemistry experiment. She left evidence of everything (and everyone) she did. I think she had some from another source and the fight fueled her to use it.

While I agree KC is stupid, I remember reading or hearing on NG that her grades in chemistry were A's...that she was very good in science and chemistry. I will try to find the link supporting that.

 

[USARDOG]

i understand the high levels of chloroform in the trunk.....but that would have to suggest that the killing would have been in the trunk of the car....if she used some to put over caylee's face to breath in...why would the choloroform be so high in the trunk...that part i still dont understand....she wouldnt of needed very much of it...why would it be so consintrated in the trunk...so far there has not been any release of info that suggested chloroform any where else but the trunk of the car.....just very weird...

Perhaps she put the rags or what ever applicator she used into the trunk with the body.

 

[USARDOG]

Just speculation like we're all doing since the murder was deemed to be by 'undetermined means'. If you read up a few posts you can see where we're giving scenarios on how Casey could have applied the tape without actually binding her hands with something.

Yes, i have read the entire thread, however, I am also aware that there are many posters here who have children of their own. I too can make up may scenarios where violence is used to subdue this little girl, but:
1. there is no evidence suggesting it,
2. CA and GA were very possibly in the next room while this was going on,
3. I personally would not subject the readers of these posts to needless, unfounded violent speculation. This case is horrendous enough as it is.

That is my opinion at any rate.

 

[TallyHo]

i understand the high levels of chloroform in the trunk.....but that would have to suggest that the killing would have been in the trunk of the car....if she used some to put over caylee's face to breath in...why would the choloroform be so high in the trunk...that part i still dont understand....she wouldnt of needed very much of it...why would it be so consintrated in the trunk...so far there has not been any release of info that suggested chloroform any where else but the trunk of the car.....just very weird...

This is why JWG's theory of the chloroform on the blanket makes so much sense, since the blanket went into the trunk with Caylee. But you're right - it would be interesting to know if there were traces of chloroform found anywhere else (Casey's/Caylee's room, to be precise) in that house.

 

[TakeNote]

This is why JWG's theory of the chloroform on the blanket makes so much sense, since the blanket went into the trunk with Caylee. But you're right - it would be interesting to know if there were traces of chloroform found anywhere else (Casey's/Caylee's room, to be precise) in that house.

yes and if there was some on the blanket as well....then i would tie the two together....or ...the whole thing...caylee...home...trunk...3 pieces of duct tape....chloroform....:furious:

 

[illinoismom]

I agree 100% with this. The autopsy only concludes the tape was placed before decomposition began, not premortem (perimortem? am still having my morning cofee...).

I said months ago I think she may have died in bed with KC. Being on several 'crunchy parenting' boards myself and learning, a risk for death during co-sleeping is the parent's alcohol and/or drug usage. That they may roll over and suffocate the child being unaware. KC may not be a very large girl, but she was 3-4x Caylee's weight.

I believe the trunk, the duct tape, and the chloroform are all staging agents from someone desperate not to be blamed for Caylee's death. Even if the death was not from cosleeping, or even intentional I still think these were staging because they all are CLASSIC associations with kidnapping. I think it's overthinking to believe she attempted to kill Caylee with duct tape over her nose&mouth, then used or previously used chloroform, then drove around with her in the trunk as seperately come up with plans. Kidnapping-scenario makes a much more reasonable explanation including the placement in the trunk. It's all staging and I know nothing more now after reading the report than I did before.

A mother might put a sticker on it, yes. I've never argued that KC was "smart" lol. Or un-twisted.

I am not in any way defending her actions or this evidence, merely relating my gut thoughts about it. I believe this is staging and she pulled it out of her butt when she got caught by Cindy. She really thought the police would believe her (because she's NOT smart).

While I dont agree with the "sleeping accident" theory, I do think that the duct tape, double bagging and dumping her close to the house were all to make it look like a kidnapping. I also dont think the chloroform was the murder weapon. (not sure what was) I think that the chloroform, or a combination of things that result in chloroform, was used in the clean up by someone who knew what they were doing.....Also I know a few of you said that Casey "pulled the kidnapping thing out of her butt"...she didnt tho, she had 31 days to figure out her story. Obviously she didnt want to get caught but she had a back up plan in case she did and while I dont think shes the brightest crayon in the box I do think shes smarter than we are giving her credit for.

 

[TakeNote]

While I dont agree with the "sleeping accident" theory, I do think that the duct tape, double bagging and dumping her close to the house were all to make it look like a kidnapping. I also dont think the chloroform was the murder weapon. (not sure what was) I think that the chloroform, or a combination of things that result in chloroform, was used in the clean up by someone who knew what they were doing.....Also I know a few of you said that Casey "pulled the kidnapping thing out of her butt"...she didnt tho, she had 31 days to figure out her story. Obviously she didnt want to get caught but she had a back up plan in case she did and while I dont think shes the brightest crayon in the box I do think shes smarter than we are giving her credit for.

i always thought so far...until it can be all linked together...that the chloroform was used for clean up as well....there was one mention that the trunk was to clean...

 

[amysmom]

I didn't see anything re: the sticker on the tape..Did I simply overlook it or is it really not there?

 

[TakeNote]

I didn't see anything re: the sticker on the tape..Did I simply overlook it or is it really not there?

sticker residue on the duct tape in the shape of a heart

 

[illinoismom]

i always thought so far...until it can be all linked together...that the chloroform was used for clean up as well....there was one mention that the trunk was to clean...

Right, and then IIRC the excuse for the trunk being "too clean" was that GA was the clean freak.....wasnt it?:waitasec:

 

[amysmom]

sticker residue on the duct tape in the shape of a heart

TY! I've been looking for it in the report linked in post #1 of this thread & still don't see it..:waitasec:

Is it in a different one?

 

[TakeNote]

TY! I've been looking for it in the report linked in post #1 of this thread & still don't see it..:waitasec:

Is it in a different one?

the poster in post number 1 said....*covering of the nose and mouth apertures with grayish tape.*......i dont see any mention of the sticker....is that what you mean?

 

[TakeNote]

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801867/detail.html

Page 3, third paragraph discusses the covering of the nose and mouth apertures with grayish tape.

PH, apologies if you were going to post this. Hadn't seen it yet.

i should of just bumped the post you were talking about....but i dont know how to bump two at the same time....LOL

 

[amysmom]

the poster in post number 1 said....*covering of the nose and mouth apertures with grayish tape.*......i dont see any mention of the sticker....is that what you mean?

Yes & no! (Sorry for all the confusion) This link below from post #1 brought me to the report (title of this thread) but after reading all of it (13 pages) I still don't see anything about the sticker..I assume it's included in another part of the released report but which one? I thought I read them all but maybe I missed one or more?..Thanks for trying to help me!

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801867/detail.html

Page 3, third paragraph discusses the covering of the nose and mouth apertures with grayish tape

.