Autopsy Report - UCF Osteological Analysis-Duct Tape Info

[JBean]

three words for you guys:

duct
tape
analysis

where this post lands is random

 

[LC446]

Have you ever really thought about that? I mean considering the pressure she put herself under and the pressure her mother was putting her under, perhaps she broke that golden rule and gave Caylee to someone that she was not absolutely sure she could trust her with. There are hundreds of sex offenders living in close radius to the Anthony home, there are a lot of drugs going around in the clicks. It really bothers me that Kc was up near the Cassleberry Walmart that day. Sorry to be off topic, but the duct tape thing, I mean to say, a mother would use duct tape on their daughter, just does not make sense to me no matter how people spin it. IMO

BBM. I completely get where you are coming from NTS. It doesn't make sense for a mother to use duct tape on their own child. Not unless that mother intended to do serious harm to that child. Unfortunately, these people exist. A long time ago, I worked for Child Protective Services and the things I have seen mothers do to their children is unspeakable. But, it does happen. If you've never been exposed to this, then count yourself lucky. But, I assure you it happens, I've seen it first hand.

The duct tape and not reporting Caylee missing are big things for me. I don't question Dr G's and the other experts evaluations and conclusions. They are far better trained than me to make those kind of determinations. IMO there just really isn't any explanation for putting that tape over her own toddler's nose and mouth other than to do serious damage, in this case, kill.

 

[Marina2]

Bolded by me. Yes, may be guilty of neglect or doing something that ultimately lead to Caylee's death, but not premeditated first degree murder as charged. IMO

Neglect or doing something that ultimately lead to Caylee's death is aggravated child abuse. She's also charged with this and the penalty is the same.

 

[ynotdivein]

JBean, you are the shizz.

Where this post lands on the thread is random. Swearsies. :angel:

 

[sassy_texasbelle2]

JBean, you are the shizz.

Where this post lands on the thread is random. Swearsies. :angel:

LOL...we love that Jelly Bean don't we! She is a trip:woohoo:

 

[Marina2]

I wonder if Cm will ask Dr Schultz on the stand: Once you removed the duct tape, did the mandible disarticulate at that point?

Ok, with apologies to JBean, I'll get back on topic.

NTS, what are your thoughts regarding Dr. Schultz answer to this question if it is asked?

The mandible will always separate from the skull when a body deteriorates. The supporting ligaments and the temporomandibular joint are what keeps it attached to the skull. These decompose, as any soft tissue does, leaving nothing to keep the mandible in place.

When Dr. Shultz removed the tape, the mandible would, of course, be separated from the skull. Unless, subsequent growth of roots and the hair mass fortified the connection.

That being said, you should keep in mind that Caylee's body was completely skeletonized very quickly, long before any roots or hair mass formed. This is where Marspiter's point comes in. There was evidence of a lot of animal activity on Caylee's remains. If the body was completely skeletonized (including the TMJ and the supporting ligaments of the mandible) before the hair mass formed and roots grew through the skeleton, then what held the mandible in place during this animal activity if not the duct tape?

Getting back to your question, if Dr. Shultz is asked this question, the answer will likely be yes.

 

[okiedokietoo]

Have you ever really thought about that? I mean considering the pressure she put herself under and the pressure her mother was putting her under, perhaps she broke that golden rule and gave Caylee to someone that she was not absolutely sure she could trust her with. There are hundreds of sex offenders living in close radius to the Anthony home, there are a lot of drugs going around in the clicks. It really bothers me that Kc was up near the Cassleberry Walmart that day. Sorry to be off topic, but the duct tape thing, I mean to say, a mother would use duct tape on their daughter, just does not make sense to me no matter how people spin it. IMO

She said ZFG (Zenaida) was the nanny. She said this person had watched Caylee for the past year and a half, to two years - according to her arrest affidavit.
http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0717/16907762.pdf

And in released jail letters, penned by KC she said:
"You want to know something, I know that Caylee's nanny, the 'real' Zenaida, the girl who was my friend for four years, I know in my heart that she's not responsible"
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/23064461/detail.html
POSTED: Tuesday, April 6, 2010
UPDATED: 12:55 pm EDT April 7, 2010

 

[ynotdivein]

I wonder if Cm will ask Dr Schultz on the stand: Once you removed the duct tape, did the mandible disarticulate at that point?

If CM asks Dr. S that question on the stand, I will be VERY interested to hear the response. I would expect it to be along the lines of, "Goodness no, it did not disarticulate at that point. It had done that long ago..."

The mandible disarticulated from the skull/hinge months before Caylee's remains were found. The duct tape stuck to the hair on both sides of the skull was keeping the disarticulated mandible in place.

The tilt-a-whirl is where? Next to the merry-go-round you say? Many thanks.

 

[Astraea]

So, "someone" (sex offender, invisananny, druggie) broke into their home after KC left Caylee with them, murdered Caylee, stole their duct tape, wrapped it around Caylee's mouth. Then went and found a heart shaped sticker from KC's room, dumped Caylee into a bag that matched the one out of their garage, made sure they wrapped her in a Pooh blanket that matched the ones from Caylee's room, then dumped her near the house all to frame KC.

What pressure did KC have? She had a mother that was a bi**h, one that drove her crazy with her control. Welcome to the real world of tons of people that have a spouse, parents or kids. We do not go and kill a child because of that. We manage to have a job and live daily under pressure just like most of the world does. KC would dump Caylee with anyone if it meant she could party or just haul her with her and drug her. KC partied at night, slept the day away and spent the rest of the time on her text messages. If that is pressure pass it on. Sounds like a vacation to me. It is time to stop making excuses for KC. There are none.

BBM: These things are but assumptions,and the evidence has not proven these things to be true at this point in time.

In regards to the duct tape though, as I said in the other thread, the FBI report at this time says that the tape from the As and the tape from the crime scene are microscopically dissimilar.

Not to mention the CRAZY story about the heart sticker on the tape, which then turned into residue ON the duct tape, witnessed by one analyst, then destroyed during finger printing. No heart sticker was ever found at the scene other then the one already attached to cardboard.

On one hand the jury is supposed to believe that the duct tape was so deteriorated that the fibres were COMPLETELY destroyed, and at the same time also believe that a sticky heart residue remained, with nothing stuck to it! AND it was still in such good shape that even after the skull rolled out of the bag onto the ground, it was attached tightly enough to still hold the mandible in place. This is just not logical in my opinion.

JMO

 

[cecybeans]

With apologies to JBean, I'll rephrase, just because I'd like to wrap up the objections to some of the overanalysis of the duct tape particulars which are starting to resemble the reading of tea leaves.

It will be hard for a jury to want to deliberate the fine points of the duct tape when they consider two things. One, Caylee was in her mother's charge. Two, the duct tape found on her skull was similar or the same as the duct tape found in the Anthony home (and it is not that common).

The forensic particulars about where the skull was situated, whether or not portions were disarticulated, masses of hair, etc, etc. are just going to seem extremely superfluous or supererogatory, shall we say, to a jury of reasonable adults if no logical explanation can be made as to why Caylee's remains show up down the block from the house with duct tape from the house all over her face when her mother was the last one seen with her.

 

[Marina2]

With apologies to JBean, I'll rephrase, just because I'd like to wrap up the objections to some of the overanalysis of the duct tape particulars which are starting to resemble the reading of tea leaves.

It will be hard for a jury to want to deliberate the fine points of the duct tape when they consider two things. One, Caylee was in her mother's charge. Two, the duct tape found on her skull was similar or the same as the duct tape found in the Anthony home (and it is not that common).

The forensic particulars about where the skull was situated, whether or not portions were disarticulated, masses of hair, etc, etc. are just going to seem extremely superfluous or supererogatory, shall we say, to a jury of reasonable adults if no logical explanation can be made as to why Caylee's remains show up down the block from the house with duct tape from the house all over her face when her mother was the last one seen with her.

Thank you Cecybeans. While typing my last post I kept thinking "What is the point of all this, the tape held it, the tape didn't hold it". I mean, in the grand scheme of things, who cares whether the mandible was in place or what held it there. If it's important, the ME will explain why. You said what I was thinking beautifully.

 

[Sherbie]

Have you ever really thought about that? I mean considering the pressure she put herself under and the pressure her mother was putting her under, perhaps she broke that golden rule and gave Caylee to someone that she was not absolutely sure she could trust her with. There are hundreds of sex offenders living in close radius to the Anthony home, there are a lot of drugs going around in the clicks. It really bothers me that Kc was up near the Cassleberry Walmart that day. Sorry to be off topic, but the duct tape thing, I mean to say, a mother would use duct tape on their daughter, just does not make sense to me no matter how people spin it. IMO

So she would sit in jail for years and perhaps even receive the death penalty rather than admit to handing Caylee off to someone else and identifying that person? I dunno, I think I'd rather take my lumps for poor judgment in choice of a caregiver than face a murder charge. Why would she not fess up if that were the case?

It is difficult to imagine any mother using duct tape on her child. It's also difficult to imagine a mother drowning, stoning, choking or even microwaving her own child...yet it happens. Abuse and murder of children never makes sense. No spin required.

 

[Marina2]

I suppose the confusion some have with this stems from the reports of how deteriorated the tape was. Perhaps it's illogical to some that tape that is so deteriorated can be said to have ever been stuck to the face at all.

There may be some on the jury that feel the same way. But, when they hear testimony of the tape having been cut from the hair, hear testimony that it held the mandible in place when nothing else could have, and see pictures of it actually covering the nose and mouth they will have no doubt that it was, in fact, placed on Caylee's face.

The only question then will be... why?

 

[Astraea]

Not to sound flippant, but I would be greatly dismayed if the justice system and jury deliberation echoed the process we here go about making judgements on evidence and the cases said evidence relates to. The jury MUST take all evidence that is presented before them into consideration. If the duct tape evidence is to be considered then it must be considered in its entirety. jmo

I think we can all agree that this trial cant come soon enough!!

 

[Marina2]

The more I think about it, maybe the fact that the mandible was held in place by the tape is very important.

Suppose that the tape was so deteriorated that the photos don't clearly show it stuck to the face. Maybe it's not stuck at all in the photos but lying loosely over the area. The defense will argue that there is no way to know if it ever was stuck to her face.

Perhaps this is why it's so important to show that the tape held the mandible in place and the reason the ME was clear in her report that tape held it there prior to roots and the hair mass forming. The defense will say the roots and hair held it there. Also, it is said that the tape was cut from the hair so as to preserve the way it was found on the skull. Maybe the tape is in the shape of Caylee's skull and pulling it from the hair would destroy this. I think they may have pictures of the tape right after it was cut from the hair showing this shape.

I'm wondering now just what the photos of the skull with the tape on it look like. Is it just loosely there but still attached to the hair? Moving freely because it was so deteriorated. This would leave room for the defense to argue it's original placement.

 

[LambChop]

Defense has a HUGE problem with the duct tape, huge.

In KC's own words as written, "just, deny, deny, deny". Not something you would expect to hear from a person who claims they are innocent. Duct tape and heart-shaped sticker....it must be big. jmo

 

[ZsaZsa]

BBM: If Ashton does such a thing, it is my opinion that Casey will walk. ALL the evidence that we are privy to is muddled, contradictory and confusing as far as I am concerned at this point in time. But this is better left for the strategies thread I guess :innocent:

All the evidence we have seen so far is very straightforward and convincing.
If you find it confusing maybe it's because you are choosing to disbelieve it and then can't make sense of your own theories.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Originally Posted by notthatsmart
Have you ever really thought about that? I mean considering the pressure she put herself under and the pressure her mother was putting her under, perhaps she broke that golden rule and gave Caylee to someone that she was not absolutely sure she could trust her with. There are hundreds of sex offenders living in close radius to the Anthony home, there are a lot of drugs going around in the clicks. It really bothers me that Kc was up near the Cassleberry Walmart that day. Sorry to be off topic, but the duct tape thing, I mean to say, a mother would use duct tape on their daughter, just does not make sense to me no matter how people spin it. IMO

Problem is, no one has ever met/seen/can't find this alleged invisinanny. Which is why she was arrested in the first place. Also during the police interveiw they ask her if she received money from this alleged nanny. Inmate Anthony's response, if I wanted to get rid of my child I would have handed her over to my parents, another lie..she dispised her mother, built up a resentment to Caylee, felt more like siblings than mother/daughter. IMO, the very last straw for Inmate Anthony was this alleged fight that turned physical that CA admantly denies. I believe KC was in a rage leaving that home and took it out on Caylee since Caylee was in the way of her happiness and freedom. Her BFF told her he wanted boys not girls, told her it wasn't a good idea to bring Caylee around his home and this is what her driving force was, IMHO...

Even with hundreds of SO's around the area what are the chances this alleged kidnapper who is unknown to everyone will have all the items that link back to the Anthony home, or would dispose of her 1/4 mile from where she once resided..that's a far stretch, if you ask me..

Proven fact, when a woman commits a murder of her own child, they will place them in a womb like tomb within 5 miles of where they live.


read the below article, it puts this all in perspective. JMHO
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...KjCrmB&sig=AHIEtbRV-pDMfyM4c-Hf4rj0eyi4RCkenA


Justice for Caylee

 

[LambChop]

There has always been a father of the child in this picture. KC knows who the daddy is. She has to unless she did not get the man's name. KC does claim to know who the father is and dead or alive that child had another family somewhere who might have loved to also buy her dresses, toys, take her to Disney, the beach, celebrate her 3rd birthday, all the things grandparents loved to do with a grandchild. And maybe aunts and uncles, cousins, brothers and sisters. There was never any consideration for them regardless of how she may have felt about the father.

I think if she told JG she no longer wanted Caylee he would have taken her. I think he loved her that much and to be honest I believe Jesse bonded with Caylee and would only want what was best for her. So sad when there were so many other opportunities available than the route KC chose to take. jmo

 

[Macushla]

BBM: If Ashton does such a thing, it is my opinion that Casey will walk. ALL the evidence that we are privy to is muddled, contradictory and confusing as far as I am concerned at this point in time. But this is better left for the strategies thread I guess :innocent:

When the trial happens, the State will lay out their case carefully and go from A to B to C.........all the way to Z. Evidence will be presented within a time line, within the context of what the State believes, etc. The Defense will attempt to refute all the evidence - except for the evidence that they know they can not refute. Duct Tape on the skull is one item they can not refute. They can argue how it might have gotten there, was it the same duct tape, did KC put it there, but there will be potographs taken at the crime scene which will show that there was duct tape on the skull when it was found.

The one fact that I think we can agree on is that duct tape was found on the skull, right?

You have your opinion as to how the jurors will regard this, I have mine. Only time will tell which of us will be correct.