AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #7

[EmmyB]

So LE's best bet would be to know what each of the "players" was driving and then look at camera footage in those areas to see what comes up. I know it's busy so the next thing would be to look at any cameras in the A. J. area, or on the roads from Tempe to A.J. Hopefully with at least some of them having camera, maybe our perp took one?

Yes! BUT I wonder if footage would still be available now.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Well here's the exciting part about the footage of that area on june 15th being preserved:

DR George was not found for a couple days after dropping Annovedwin's body near baseline. He took off in his car after he dropped her body. That would have been around 4:30-5:30, around the same time Adrienne's murderer might have been traveling that same area and caught on camera.

! Whatever they preserved to find DR was probably archived and was available for later investigations of other vehicles involved in crimes that night. A later investigation being Adrienne's. IMHO.

 

[WideOpen]

Its also common for the perp to insert themselves into the crime. Is there any one player who is more involved than "we" might expect? I think these are crucial days for LE to be re-interviewing those persons closest to Adrienne, those at the party, and those who may have inserted themselves by chance or choice.

I do not believe at this time that George is responsible for Adrienne's death. The method of disposal seems too contradictory and LE would probably have a pretty good idea if it was him.

jmo

 

[Sin]

This is one of those times I really need LE to have more info they cant release while they're getting their ducks in order to move in. If that's not the case I may never sleep a full night again.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Its also common for the perp to insert themselves into the crime. Is there any one player who is more involved than "we" might expect? I think these are crucial days for LE to be re-interviewing those persons closest to Adrienne, those at the party, and those who may have inserted themselves by chance or choice.

I do not believe at this time that George is responsible for Adrienne's death. The method of disposal seems too contradictory and LE would probably have a pretty good idea if it was him.

jmo

I agree. DR George is much more outright with his assaults and disposal.

Whoever did this likes to hide their assaults/disposals/abusive ways IMO

 

[WideOpen]

Well here's the exciting part about the footage of that area on june 15th being preserved:

DR George was not found for a couple days after dropping Annovedwin's body near baseline. He took off in his car after he dropped her body. That would have been around 4:30-5:30, around the same time Adrienne's murderer might have been traveling that same area and caught on camera.

! Whatever they preserved to find DR was probably archived and was available for later investigations of other vehicles involved in crimes that night. A later investigation being Adrienne's. IMHO.

What a great thought and streak of luck if it proved to help solve Adrienne's murder. It's pretty chilling in this case how many odd coincidences there are. It just seems like Adrienne has been trying to get everyones attention from the start. "You sweet angel, I know your daddy hears you!"

Would LE be able to look through footage that was taken to find Annovedwins murderer and may possibly be evidence? I just picture it locked up in an evidence room. Does that make sense?

jmo

 

[EmmyB]

Its also common for the perp to insert themselves into the crime. Is there any one player who is more involved than "we" might expect? I think these are crucial days for LE to be re-interviewing those persons closest to Adrienne, those at the party, and those who may have inserted themselves by chance or choice.

I do not believe at this time that George is responsible for Adrienne's death. The method of disposal seems too contradictory and LE would probably have a pretty good idea if it was him.

jmo

I am thinking that her friends are suspicious of someone and mentioned it to LE but maybe didn't say too much since they weren't sure where she was. BUT maybe now that she has been found in the way she has they will be disgusted, they will want justice, they will feel compelled to say more.
JMO

 

[Bernina]

Yeah, IIRC, LE expressed some dissatisfaction with statements from people in the apartment, I guess the timeline problems were a part of it. But let's not forget that what we have is just the very basic report, there have been lots of follow up interviews and in the case of FA (bf) certainly they obtained his phone records. Maybe this has been clarified.
IF those times are correct I join you in the concern that it's too tight. But what could be the scenario? Both roomies would have to be in on it, as both said they saw Adrienne after FA told them she got out of his vehicle. If it wouldn't be for this information, they would simply see Adrienne BEFORE she left WITH FA (both at party, she at one point upset on the grass, later getting into bedroom and packing a bag to leave with FA); then later someone drove her car and had the accident, put her clothes/bag in the apartment and, of course, made the cab calls.
I'd really like to see the phone records to rule out some mistake/typo. But I'm sure they took a very hard look on FA, as even if everything is correct, it still leaves the possibility that she indeed called a cab, and indeed someone else (maybe even a stranger) pulled up beside her and offered her a free ride to Scottsdale - and actually drove her there and dropped her off at FA safe and sound, and anything that happened happened there.

BBM
Basically, all we have is the report. The inconsistency of the roomates' vs FA time of when Adrienne got out of the vehicle at 5th and Mill can be whatever it is.
FA told LE it was 3:22 am and whipped out his phone to validate it. His statement, his phone, and the audio/visual of the officer in the narrative.
K. Broadbent's call to 911 time for the accident 3:44. Her statement, LE verification of call to dispatch that morning at that time.
2 witness statements that have at least 1 other source validating their claims. (FA's phone record visually seen by responding officer, LE incident report of KB's call verified by responding officer)
If we believe KB had visual on Adrienne's vehicle at 3:40 as KB's narrative claims, that reduces the time Adrienne had to get from 5th and Mill and into her vehicle.
3:22: FA call to roomates "Adrienne is walking home"
3:37: Adrienne gets to apartment (15 minute walking time)

(Fill in ALL the stuff she does, packs a bag, talks to roomate on lawn, visually seems upset to both roomates by whatever term they describe it, waits for other roomate to get out of the room, maybe drinks another drink, maybe goes to the bathroom, goes out to her vehicle which roomate hears engine start, and that's IF anyone even SAW her in this short period of time)

3:40: KB reports visual of vehicle pull out behind her Southbound on Hardy

(accident at Rio Salado Blvd and Ash Ave, KB exits her vehicle to assist aid, vehicle speeds away)

3:44: KB calls 911 to report accident

Even if you give a 2 minute variance on when KB SAW AS's vehicle, we're stuck with a period of between 3-5 minutes that Adrienne could do what she did in the apt and get to the accident at Rio Salado Blvd and Ash Ave.

And she MAY have been drunk,
And her previous surgery and recuperation MAY have slowed her walking time.

Lacking any other source of information, between 3:22 and 3:44, THIS is a HOLE. We have nothing else to substantiate anything else to the contrary.

This is my sticking point. There has been nothing provided by LE in writing or any other "RELIABLE" source to change those 2 times. They are about as solid as they come.

Why didn't FA call the apt to see if Adrienne ever got home? He claims he was concerned enough to notify the roomates Adrienne was walking home, so why didn't he? Was it Adrienne's vehicle they actually drove to FA's Scottsdale apt? When Adrienne got out at 5th and Mill, did she re-enter the car when FA drove up and told her he had her phone? Did they continue driving and was it FA who wrecked the vehicle on Rio Salado and Ash with Adrienne as a passenger? I am not going to buy into that KB reversed her visual that there was only one person in Adrienne's vehicle, give me a LE report stating so, and NOT Pooley on HLN, which we all know pre-tapes and heavily edits for "Shock" value and ratings. Roomate on bike never ran into Adrienne walking home....and who knows how drunk either roomate was. They weren't leaving the party, they could have both been 3 sheets to the wind by 3:00. ALL of the roomates' statements could be recall from a drunken, totally baked state.....and/or panic?

I lived on 9th St. at the corner of University and Hardy for almost a year. I KNOW that area. It is humanly impossible to do what Adrienne is purported to have done in those 18 -20 minutes.
Someone please MAKE those 18-20 minutes WORK to fit the witnesses' statements because I can't. IMO, those 2 times are solid.
JMO, OMO, MOO.

(can you tell I am totally frustrated by the overall LE report and the overall lack of follow up? Like I said when the report was initially posted, this is one of the worst, if not THE worst LE report I've EVER read, JMO. And I've read literally hundreds, NOT going to go there)

 

[WideOpen]

I am thinking that her friends are suspicious of someone and mentioned it to LE but maybe didn't say too much since they weren't sure where she was. BUT maybe now that she has been found in the way she has they will be disgusted, they will want justice, they will feel compelled to say more.
JMO

I sure hope so!
I have several (actually lots of) reasons why I have not focused on the room mates. I do not see that much suspicious behavior from that weekend prior to them finding out Adrienne was missing. They continued to party into Sunday and when LE showed up their house was filthy. I think they would have been cleaning like mad women had they taken part or had knowledge.
( I wonder if LE took fingerprints-maybe there was a guest at the party with a violent record)

The room mates IMO would likely have a suspicion after running all the details and thinking it through over the last few months. They may be frightened (I sure would be) and scared to tell but hopefully they have supportive parents and a moral compass to help them do the right thing for Adrienne and those who love her. Then again, I would think there would be some rumor out there or talk by someone, I don't follow social media but know others here do.

jmo

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

What a great thought and streak of luck if it proved to help solve Adrienne's murder. It's pretty chilling in this case how many odd coincidences there are. It just seems like Adrienne has been trying to get everyones attention from the start. "You sweet angel, I know your daddy hears you!"

Would LE be able to look through footage that was taken to find Annovedwins murderer and may possibly be evidence? I just picture it locked up in an evidence room. Does that make sense?

jmo

All the cam footage from
That night was probably archived in some computer file and saved.

George had driven all around mesa and Tempe for all LE knew. He was on the run for a few days in his car. So I'm sure they checked every single cam and saved the footage for further investigation.

The cam footage might have even provided the first clue in Adrienne's case. You're right, what a streak of luck if true!

 

[margarita25]

Its also common for the perp to insert themselves into the crime. Is there any one player who is more involved than "we" might expect? I think these are crucial days for LE to be re-interviewing those persons closest to Adrienne, those at the party, and those who may have inserted themselves by chance or choice.

I do not believe at this time that George is responsible for Adrienne's death. The method of disposal seems too contradictory and LE would probably have a pretty good idea if it was him.

jmo

It does indeed. I thought about this too, but remember, he was done with Annovedwin. He would have needed some time with his new victim (ugh, so sorry, I hate typing that). Also / and/or, if she was a witness, he might have been deciding how to handle the situation, again needing some time / distance.

Are there any documented cases where someone killed a domestic partner, then immediately abducted a random victim?

 

[WideOpen]

Lacking any other source of information, between 3:22 and 3:44, THIS is a HOLE. We have nothing else to substantiate anything else to the contrary.

This is my sticking point. There has been nothing provided by LE in writing or any other "RELIABLE" source to change those 2 times. They are about as solid as they come.

Respectfully sniped

You make and excellent argument here and I agree those times seem solid. I had to read your post several times to understand the tone and point you were trying to make (my brain is slow today) but when I got it wow-clear.
I hope that others will chime in and help solidify or tear this up because it deserves additional thought.

One thing I could assume is that when FA dropped Adrienne he did something else for a few minutes before he decided it was important he called the room mate. When I have been dealing with an "emotional vampire" (sorry Adrienne-my term for difficult people) it takes me a few minutes to de-stress and get back my own focus.

I think every minute counts here in what you have presented. I hope others have thoughts.

jmo

 

[SoSueMe]

We're going to take Websleuths off line for about an 2 hours on the morning of Sunday, 18 August. We're going to fix the problem that causes the database errors that have been popping up.

Current schedule is to begin around 10:00 AM Eastern/7:00 AM Pacific time.

Thank you Adnoid!​

 

[prospektor]

FA told LE it was 3:22 am and whipped out his phone to validate it. His statement, his phone, and the audio/visual of the officer in the narrative.

Well, not quite, the report only states that FA said he informed her roommates, he showed his phone and the officer noted a call to RF at 3:22. IF the officer made a mistake with this visual, it negates the phone - and the statement as worded in the report never gave a time.
That's why I hesitate to take it as "solid fact" that he informed RF about Adrienne walking at 3:22. For all we know, he could've been out of state or in a reservation and his phone was still set to Daylight Savings Time, i.e. an hour forward. The surveillance at O'Reilly's didn't show the correct time neither. That's why the record from the phone company would be more reliable.
Also:

Why didn't FA call the apt to see if Adrienne ever got home?

Maybe he did, maybe he called RF two times in the course of the evening, first to tell her Adrienne is on her way (around 2:30) and later (3:22) if she made it home safe. The officer might have looked at either the wrong call or his phone only displays the last interaction with each number. Another reason the provider's phone record is important.

However, I do agree that the 911 call and the associated time can pretty much be taken for a fact. And of course the roommates could've been totally drunk and mixing things up, but the memory of the call and AFTERWARDS seeing Adrienne is pretty strong, especially when there seems to be another witness to FA's call to SD, Mr. MJ - who is either one of the juveniles that are blacked out in the report's "subject" section (though I think that would warrant his name to be blacked out in the report itself as well) or doesn't even show up in that section at all (unless I've somehow missed it). Would be bad if he's one of the few guests that LE couldn't get a hold of.

As for the report, well, we don't know what else there is. We know of the cab investigation, there was a LDT administered, there've been follow-up interviews - nothing of which shows up in what has been made publicly available.
Seems Sgt. Pooley trusts nobody, not even us.
Maybe - the murderer is in this room.
:what: :what: :websleuther: :what: hoh: :what:

 

[Seajay]

Whodunnit???

 

[cluciano63]

I think that LE is back at the beginning, now that they have a new location to compare to all cell records, pings, etc.

But if no one known can be tied to the location, they may need some luck in finding the perp.

JMO

 

[margarita25]

I sure hope so!
I have several (actually lots of) reasons why I have not focused on the room mates. I do not see that much suspicious behavior from that weekend prior to them finding out Adrienne was missing. They continued to party into Sunday and when LE showed up their house was filthy. I think they would have been cleaning like mad women had they taken part or had knowledge.
( I wonder if LE took fingerprints-maybe there was a guest at the party with a violent record)

The room mates IMO would likely have a suspicion after running all the details and thinking it through over the last few months. They may be frightened (I sure would be) and scared to tell but hopefully they have supportive parents and a moral compass to help them do the right thing for Adrienne and those who love her. Then again, I would think there would be some rumor out there or talk by someone, I don't follow social media but know others here do.

jmo

Wow, good / interesting point!

 

[Bernina]

Dangit! Had to walk away half way through responding to cover stuff from the rain!!!!!!

Well, not quite, the report only states that FA said he informed her roommates, he showed his phone and the officer noted a call to RF at 3:22. IF the officer made a mistake with this visual, it negates the phone - and the statement as worded in the report never gave a time.
That's why I hesitate to take it as "solid fact" that he informed RF about Adrienne walking at 3:22. For all we know, he could've been out of state or in a reservation and his phone was still set to Daylight Savings Time, i.e. an hour forward. The surveillance at O'Reilly's didn't show the correct time neither. That's why the record from the phone company would be more reliable.
Also:
O'Reilly's time stamp error was noted in the LE report. The multiple calls placed by "Adrienne" to FA were also noted which LE has coincided on with the cab time table and the 4:43 text: I'm coming overt" (typo from text message)........so I can't consider any of the above
Maybe he did, maybe he called RF two times in the course of the evening, first to tell her Adrienne is on her way (around 2:30) and later (3:22) if she made it home safe. The officer might have looked at either the wrong call or his phone only displays the last interaction with each number. Another reason the provider's phone record is important. But FA did not STATE he had called to see if she made it home. So, again I have to disregard the above.

However, I do agree that the 911 call and the associated time can pretty much be taken for a fact. And of course the roommates could've been totally drunk and mixing things up, but the memory of the call and AFTERWARDS seeing Adrienne is pretty strong, especially when there seems to be another witness to FA's call to SD, Mr. MJ - who is either one of the juveniles that are blacked out in the report's "subject" section (though I think that would warrant his name to be blacked out in the report itself as well) or doesn't even show up in that section at all (unless I've somehow missed it). Would be bad if he's one of the few guests that LE couldn't get a hold of.The juvenile "Subjects" , #32 & #33, can be directly connected to the subjects questioned in Jaycee Park on Jul 3, names have been blacked out (page 10 of Narrative - minus subject pages). Mr. MJ is not listed in the subjects so he was not considered by responding LE as a witness to anything, nor a statement obtained. And with all the insinuation that AS was drunk, in a highly emotional and irrational state, I would insinuate that the roomates were so blitzed, they could have been asked "And when exactly did you notice the UFO on the front lawn?" and they would have answered. They were underage, drinking and (because of AS's father STATING she smoked pot in LE report) I can assume, as roomates, they shared the same illicit indulgence. And they probably still had a buzz going when they were questioned by LE.

As for the report, well, we don't know what else there is. We know of the cab investigation, there was a LDT administered, there've been follow-up interviews - nothing of which shows up in what has been made publicly available.
What I am doing is starting from the beginning with what we've been given. Neither roomate, at that time, showed their phones to LE to verify their received calls. Then and now, LE may believe the roomates have nothing of value because their lack of observation during the early morning of Jul 15. They did not know AS had changed, they thought her wallet was gone, what purse did she take, the keys to her car. And when you're partying and you're the "hostesses", who looks at the clock when it's a 2 day event? They were doing THEIR own thing.
Seems Sgt. Pooley trusts nobody, not even us.
Maybe - the murderer is in this room.
:what: :what: :websleuther: :what: hoh: :what:
Yes, you may be right, throwing people off perfectly legitimate and reasonable lines of thinking......

:anguish:
Work with me here! If FA's phone had the incorrect time, why did he show it to LE? The rez? Daylight savings? FA is a care taker for an elderly woman, I think having the correct time would be significant ie., "Medication Time".
I can understand playing "Devil's Advocate", but can we just stay with what we have? :banghead:

:sigh: Prospektor......you're killin' me! :scared:

JMO

 

[Wendy101]

i don't follow thus one much.. But.. IMO.. Someone was very angry with her behavior that evening and lost his or her cool..

 

[Arione]

Being new here, I'm not sure what I can say or question in regards to suspects. So, if I am doing something against tos, please let me know and I will be glad to delete this or have a moderator do so.
I am personally torn between something happening before the car accident or something happening on the walk to the am/pm. That's two entirely different scenarios: going from something happened and whatever it was, it was not from a stranger. The other being is a "stranger" abduction, and I am wondering if anyone has thought of the possibility of this being a local, say a route driver? Someone that would drive that route for work and was familiar with the entire area, but doesn't live in the immediate area where Adrienne was found?
JMO