AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #7

[prospektor]

While Adrienne was sitting down and waiting to get into her bedroom, I think it's very possible that somebody did something and/or said something so incredibly hurtful and/or inappropriate and/or threatening that she got more upset than Duggan had ever seen her, prompting her to leave ASAP and drive like a bat outta hell to the extent she got into a wreck, and I think whatever happened involved someone at the party which IMO would explain why she went back in and back out so quietly and quickly after her wreck that nobody there sees her... she was IMO avoiding the person who upset her so badly.

Yeah, it would be good to know if this "attention" issue with her bf included another girl. She might have just wanted to go to bed when she got home, but some remarks might have made her decide to return to her bf asap, speeding into an accident, then calling him over and over again, then trying to get a cab even though she had little money.
It it is her on the surveillance cam and she missed the cab by approx. five minutes, she might have gotten into a stopping car just to finally somehow get to FA.

 

[Bernina]

Victim to Offender Relationship
The relationship of victim to offender differs significantly between male and
female victims of homicide. Compared to a man, a woman is far more likely to be
killed by her spouse, an intimate acquaintance, or a family memberthan by a stranger.
For homicides in which the victim to offender relationship could be identified, 94
percent of female victims (1,571 out of 1,669) were murdered by someone they
knew. Sixteen times as many females were murdered by a male they knew (1,571
victims)than were killed by male strangers (98 victims)in single victim/single offender
incidents in 2010.13 Of victims who knew their offenders, 65 percent (1,017 out of
1,571) were wives, common-law wives, ex-wives, or girlfriends ofthe offenders. (Exgirlfriends cannot be included in the intimate acquaintance analysis because there is
not a separate designation for ex-boyfriends or ex-girlfriends in the FBI Supplementary
Homicide Report relationship category)

http://www.vpc.org/studies/wmmw2012.pdf

 

[margarita25]

I wonder if Adrienne would have ever been found, if it not for the floods. I think it would have been much later than sooner, anyway. JMO. It is a blessing that she was found.

So, what have you guys come up with as far as where she was originally placed?

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I think it's interesting how the reports with RF saying she saw Adrienne didn't get released to nearly a month after she went missing.

Seems like a tactic on part of LE. I really don't believe RF or SD saw Adrienne during most of that timeline.

If I were her best friends I would be working with LE on the down low and do whatever I could to help them trip the suspects up.

IMHO.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I wonder if Adrienne would have ever been found, if it not for the floods. I think it would have been much later than sooner, anyway. JMO. It is a blessing that she was found.

So, what have you guys come up with as far as where she was originally placed?

I think she was placed at Canyon Lake first. IMHO

Or buried on the mountainside area of Dutchman's whatever where the washes run down

 

[northxnorthwest]

I think it's interesting how the reports with RF saying she saw Adrienne didn't get released to nearly a month after she went missing.

Seems like a tactic on part of LE. I really don't believe RF or SD saw Adrienne during most of that timeline.

If I were her best friends I would be working with LE on the down low and do whatever I could to help them trip the suspects up.

IMHO.

I'm not really saying that the circumstances are similar to the Skylar Neese case but after reading and hearing about that case I will never think of future cases involving young girls/friends/teenagers/etc the same again, her two best friends are suspected for first degree murder and they weren't apprehended for almost a year and they weren't even throroughly looked right off the bat as suspects - LE missed a lot of potential evidence to convict. IMO good true friends who are innocent will do anything they can if a friend is a missing person, fundraisers, searches, awareness, etc not just "enough" by posting a fb statuses etc, IDK. Other cases with "bad friends" remind me of Lauren Spierer and cases with "good friends" remind me of Mickey Shunick, I mean I guess all kinds of friends groups are different but I feel like in some cases you can figure out if friends really care, blah jumbled post sorry.

 

[Sunshine95]

I'm not really saying that the circumstances are similar to the Skylar Neese case but after reading and hearing about that case I will never think of future cases involving young girls/friends/teenagers/etc the same again, her two best friends are suspected for first degree murder and they weren't apprehended for almost a year and they weren't even throroughly looked right off the bat as suspects - LE missed a lot of potential evidence to convict. IMO good true friends who are innocent will do anything they can if a friend is a missing person, fundraisers, searches, awareness, etc not just "enough" by posting a fb statuses etc, IDK. Other cases with "bad friends" remind me of Lauren Spierer and cases with "good friends" remind me of Mickey Shunick, I mean I guess all kinds of friends groups are different but I feel like in some cases you can figure out if friends really care, blah jumbled post sorry.

I've been thinking about Skylar all along, too! If my friend since childhood, that I share a room with, is more upset than I have ever seen her... I would MAKE her talk to me and make sure she is ok! But maybe that's just me, and there is a lot of gray area between good friend and psychopathic friend, so it's all just my opinion.

 

[margarita25]

Not sure if this has been posted yet. Here is a link to the City of Apache Junction's website, FWIW:

http://www.ajcity.net/

 

[margarita25]

I think she was placed at Canyon Lake first. IMHO

Or buried on the mountainside area of Dutchman's whatever where the washes run down

Here's a link to Canyon Lake Marina / Campgrounds, FWIW:

http://www.canyonlakemarina.com/campground/index.htm

There's also another link from the above ajcity link to other areas, including "Superstition Wilderness":

http://www.fs.usda.gov/attmain/tonto/specialplaces


Also, here is a map of Canyon Lake:
http://www.canyonlakemarina.com/canyon_lake_map-xl.pdf

Also, overhead photo of campground from the above website:

So, the question arises, then, if the perp could have possibly been camping in the area.

 

[margarita25]

I think she was placed at Canyon Lake first. IMHO

Or buried on the mountainside area of Dutchman's whatever where the washes run down

Here's something re: trails at Duchman:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5163285.pdf

It mentions Forest Road 77 and 78.
(Eek, Forest Roads seem to come up in all these cases....Dylan, possibly Alexis Murphy...)

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Here's something re: trails at Duchman:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5163285.pdf

It mentions Forest Road 77 and 78.
(Eek, Forest Roads seem to come up in all these cases....Dylan, possibly Alexis Murphy...)

Yeah. Forest roads . I think whoever did it wanted to make it a fairly quick drop. I don't think they had a shovel
With them to bury her. So the next avenue of immediate concealment of a body would be the lake - That's why I think Canyon lake was utilized.

Here's the map I made don't know if u got to see it! The area in green is the route I think the perp took IMHO.

 

[margarita25]

So, I agree with what has been posted so far that the perp knew about this area, FWIW.

What was he doing in Tempe between 4 and 5 am.

Could he have been getting off a night shift of some sort (thinking out loud).

 

[margarita25]

Thinking about casinos for some reason...(maybe due to the time frame, reservations, etc).
Going to stop my search on this bc I keep getting linked to virusy sites.

 

[Bernina]

I wonder if Adrienne would have ever been found, if it not for the floods. I think it would have been much later than sooner, anyway. JMO. It is a blessing that she was found.

So, what have you guys come up with as far as where she was originally placed?

Here's where I wonder if the perp waited til nightfall to dispose of the remains.
1. It's HOT. 84 degrees in Tempe, 79 in AJ at 5:00 am 6/15/13. You're going to have your dirt bikers, 4 x 4's and horsemen coming out then. Apprx 30 miles/40 minutes to get there from University and Hardy. Perp gets there around 6:00 am, still 79 degrees, heat index 80.
2. That particular day it was partly cloudy. The heat reflects off the ground. If the perp was digging deep, it would be easy to get heat exhaustion, dehydrated, maybe even heat stroke. Humidity got up to 34%.
3. Digging in the wash would be easier digging, but you are far more exposed to random riders, drivers. Snakes are far more active in the early morning, soaking up heat, in very exposed areas....like washes.
4. No one is going to be around after dark. It's a holiday weekend. Most people are either at their intended holiday spot or at home. Traffic is going to be very sparse. Noises carry better. Between 8:00 and 9:00 pm, the temp is at 104, dropping to 100 so most locals will be inside with windows shut and AC on. If the LE are out, they're up close to Canyon Lake to watch for DUI's. Most small towns in Az have a tendency to just shut down after 8:00 pm.

I'm thinking on the North side of Apache Trail and that's only if the remains weren't buried very deeply. It wouldn't take very long for the remains to surface and then get stuck, unstuck, and re-stuck along the way. The only thing that would make me cautious of this, is the 3 cable fence, pipe and t-post uprights, there at the wash on the East side of Lost Dutchman's Blvd. That side of the road seems to have an extensive stock fence running up and down it, maybe it's State Land Trust?
The moon was about 41-51% full on June 15/16, so with night skies far more illuminated by stars than in the city, and probably a lighting ordinance out in that part of A.J., a perp could see fairly well to dig, not sweating much and taking their time.
If you watched the video that was posted of the rescue of the 2 in the Blazer/Bronco and the dig out the next day, you can see what type of damage the water can do. Parts of the hood of that vehicle looked like it had been sand blasted. Everything that might have clothed Adrienne was more than likely ripped away by the force of the water, it would have separated from her and moved more rapidly with the current, but more likely to become entangled in brush, shrubs, and trees. Caught up on any barbed wire, it would have been torn away and continued further down the wash.

If I was a betting person, I would say the perp waited til Saturday night and buried the remains on the North side of Apache Blvd. The perp could have disposed of any personal property (phone, etc.) and clothing before hand, thrown out the side of the window, or put in various dumpsters around the area.
I think the perp chilled out after the crime and calculated it's next phase of disposal. For all we know, the perp may have taken Adrienne to a house, it's house. The perp might have taken Saturday to sleep.
JMO

 

[margarita25]

So, chances are this might not be the perp's first rodeo, if this is indeed the work of a random perp.

There's gotta be a link somewhere to another similar case...

I know we've been looking into this since Adrienne disappeared, but I think its worthwhile to maybe go back and look at all unsolved missing person's cases again. I believe there are some links in Thread 1 to Namus, etc.

Going back to thread one.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Here's a link to Canyon Lake Marina / Campgrounds, FWIW:

http://www.canyonlakemarina.com/campground/index.htm

There's also another link from the above ajcity link to other areas, including "Superstition Wilderness":

http://www.fs.usda.gov/attmain/tonto/specialplaces


Also, here is a map of Canyon Lake:
http://www.canyonlakemarina.com/canyon_lake_map-xl.pdf

Also, overhead photo of campground from the above website:

So, the question arises, then, if the perp could have possibly been camping in the area.

I don't think he was camping there IMO,

But thank you for all this info on the lake! I can't believe my eyes skipped it before.

I really don't like that one lane bridge... Or any bridges a car can drive across for that matter, but especially that one lane bridge that is the 88 going over the lake...

 

[Wendy101]

Yeah, it would be good to know if this "attention" issue with her bf included another girl. She might have just wanted to go to bed when she got home, but some remarks might have made her decide to return to her bf asap, speeding into an accident, then calling him over and over again, then trying to get a cab even though she had little money.
It it is her on the surveillance cam and she missed the cab by approx. five minutes, she might have gotten into a stopping car just to finally somehow get to FA.

Unless the other girl he was paying attention to was still there....

 

[margarita25]

Here's where I wonder if the perp waited til nightfall to dispose of the remains.
1. It's HOT. 84 degrees in Tempe, 79 in AJ at 5:00 am 6/15/13. You're going to have your dirt bikers, 4 x 4's and horsemen coming out then. Apprx 30 miles/40 minutes to get there from University and Hardy. Perp gets there around 6:00 am, still 79 degrees, heat index 80.
2. That particular day it was partly cloudy. The heat reflects off the ground. If the perp was digging deep, it would be easy to get heat exhaustion, dehydrated, maybe even heat stroke. Humidity got up to 34%.
3. Digging in the wash would be easier digging, but you are far more exposed to random riders, drivers. Snakes are far more active in the early morning, soaking up heat, in very exposed areas....like washes.
4. No one is going to be around after dark. It's a holiday weekend. Most people are either at their intended holiday spot or at home. Traffic is going to be very sparse. Noises carry better. Between 8:00 and 9:00 pm, the temp is at 104, dropping to 100 so most locals will be inside with windows shut and AC on. If the LE are out, they're up close to Canyon Lake to watch for DUI's. Most small towns in Az have a tendency to just shut down after 8:00 pm.

I'm thinking on the North side of Apache Trail and that's only if the remains weren't buried very deeply. It wouldn't take very long for the remains to surface and then get stuck, unstuck, and re-stuck along the way. The only thing that would make me cautious of this, is the 3 cable fence, pipe and t-post uprights, there at the wash on the East side of Lost Dutchman's Blvd. That side of the road seems to have an extensive stock fence running up and down it, maybe it's State Land Trust?
The moon was about 41-51% full on June 15/16, so with night skies far more illuminated by stars than in the city, and probably a lighting ordinance out in that part of A.J., a perp could see fairly well to dig, not sweating much and taking their time.
If you watched the video that was posted of the rescue of the 2 in the Blazer/Bronco and the dig out the next day, you can see what type of damage the water can do. Parts of the hood of that vehicle looked like it had been sand blasted. Everything that might have clothed Adrienne was more than likely ripped away by the force of the water, it would have separated from her and moved more rapidly with the current, but more likely to become entangled in brush, shrubs, and trees. Caught up on any barbed wire, it would have been torn away and continued further down the wash.

If I was a betting person, I would say the perp waited til Saturday night and buried the remains on the North side of Apache Blvd. The perp could have disposed of any personal property (phone, etc.) and clothing before hand, thrown out the side of the window, or put in various dumpsters around the area.
I think the perp chilled out after the crime and calculated it's next phase of disposal. For all we know, the perp may have taken Adrienne to a house, it's house. The perp might have taken Saturday to sleep.
JMO

Yes, yes, yes! I believe you may be right. I remember other perps in other cases operating under a similar timeline (disposing of the victim approx 24 hours later).

Or maybe around the same time Adrienne disappeared. 4 to 5 am ish the next day.

 

[SandSage]

So, I agree with what has been posted so far that the perp knew about this area, FWIW.

What was he doing in Tempe between 4 and 5 am.

Could he have been getting off a night shift of some sort (thinking out loud).

Let's just consider the highly unlikely scenario that he did continue on to Canyon Lake or one of the many other camping sites / recreational sites. He would have been required to have a Tonto Pass if he lingered for any amount of time; they ticket you very quickly if you don't have one. It's unreasonable to believe he would have stopped to purchase a pass so I wonder if citations were written for any vehicles familiar to the investigation?

Yeah... I need to walk away from this. I've hopped out of the box and into a black hole.

 

[margarita25]

Let's just consider the highly unlikely scenario that he did continue on to Canyon Lake or one of the many other camping sites / recreational sites. He would have been required to have a Tonto Pass if he lingered for any amount of time; they ticket you very quickly if you don't have one. It's unreasonable to believe he would have stopped to purchase a pass so I wonder if citations were written for any vehicles familiar to the investigation?

Yeah... I need to walk away from this. I've hopped out of the box and into a black hole.

This reminds me of Jesse Speer, who was apprehended due to surveillance footage at Yellowstone, I believe. In this case, a child was abducted, released, and gave a vehicle description. But FWIW, the park videotaped every vehicle coming into the campground. Just something to think about. It also may be worth LE going through all these "tickets" for people squatting, entering the campgrounds without a pass, fwiw.