AZ AZ - Daniel Robinson, 24, remote job site, Buckeye, 23 Jun 2021

[oviedo]

AZ - Daniel Robinson, 24, remote job site, Buckeye, 23 Jun 2021 *MEDIA, Maps, TIMELINE* *NO DISCUSSION*

I've updated the media thread except for all of the recent pictures posted on the past two pages.

 

[shadwell]

His Renegade looks to me like a Trailhawk (distinct red tow hooks) which is a 4x4. However, the tires as you mention may or may not be off-road and I know they really can't get much clearance added to those vehicles.

A still (presumably of DR’s actual vehicle) I pulled from a tv news report previously when looking at the wheel arch trim - looks to have standard road tyres fitted.

 

[JJ Ray]

No I am not "Will", I went on Sat, September 25th 2021

I might know what you're saying about it being rolled onto its passenger side, in this picture it shows some kind of rollover marks on the driver side.


This picture shows a smashed front fender some scrapes on the driver side pillar without much damage to the rest of the side

post picture It also shows what looks like the passenger airbag deployed and the rear removable top/hatch circled in red....from what i learned you need a key to unlock the top to be able to take it out, there is one in front and one in the back.

You are quickly getting up to speed!!!!
The panel can be kicked out. As you can see even the the back side curtains deployed.

Even from the first released picture the rancher took (that Mr. Robinson shared with the TV station in Columbia) the damage to the Driver side has been suspect. Mr. McGrath is confirming that when he says, "damage doesn't match the terrain" and the fact it rolled onto it's passenger side at the ravine. McGrath originally stated it looked "staged" after his analysis. I don't think that is an accurate way to describe. As he has stated he think there might be a crash prior to the car ending up in the ravine BUT it was still operable. So "dumping" and "staging" could still apply to Daniel himself as well as outsiders.

 

[JJ Ray]

Great observations- this airbag issue will need to be explained.

Crash #1- where, when and what was the damage

Crash #2- same

When did the airbags deploy?, because as you said the fuel is shut off to limit fires. Somebody would have had to manually open the ACM and hit the switch (and known to do that, or googled it on their phone). That is a pretty rational thing to do and speaks to state of mind.

Crash #2 is I assume the ravine, if McGrath analysis holds. Buckeye PD is now saying they are bringing in a technical expert to re examine. (Yesterdays News conference reporting per local Channel 12

 

[shadwell]

I guess I’m just not knowledgeable enough about these things… but for whatever reason I don’t understand the Jeep’s “46 starts” after the initial crash.
Are they saying Daniel (or whomever) restarted the Jeep/turned the key on 46 different times after the vehicle wrecked the 1st time? As in trying to start it or as in actually starting it?? OR Does this mean something different entirely? Again, forgive me of any ignorance with this matter.

As I understand it the EDR counts “ignition cycles,” adding one to the tally every time the box is powered up. This happens when the vehicle ignition is turned on (but the engine not necessarily started) and also each time the box is powered up in order to extract data. Each EDR report resulting from a collision or significant event includes the ignition cycle count.

My understanding was that the total ignition cycle count at the time data was extracted by the PI was 46 greater than the ignition cycle count at the time of airbag deployment (initial incident), of which one or two might reasonably result from powering up for data extraction.

 

[dmac55]

This is not the actual document, but the article mentions information contained within it

Police report released on missing geologist Daniel Robinson
https://www.abc15.com/news/region-w...released-on-missing-geologist-daniel-robinson

 

[Trackergd]

Data recovered indicated the Jeep crashed, but then went another 11 miles before ending up in the ditch. Crashed with what? There's very little out there to crash into.

 

[JJ Ray]

Great observations- this airbag issue will need to be explained.

Crash #1- where, when and what was the damage

Crash #2- same

When did the airbags deploy?, because as you said the fuel is shut off to limit fires. Somebody would have had to manually open the ACM and hit the switch (and known to do that, or googled it on their phone). That is a pretty rational thing to do and speaks to state of mind.

Crash 1 (unknown but presumably 11 miles from crash site, unless driven in circles after crash.
Crash 2 ravine.
Here is the original interview with McGrath on wreck analysis. Also attached Owners manual link. The fuel system can be reset by a sequence of turn signal manipulations.
Private investigator says evidence doesn't add up for missing man | 12news.com
https://cdn.dealereprocess.org/cdn/servicemanuals/jeep/2017-renegade.pdf

 

[JJ Ray]

Data recovered indicated the Jeep crashed, but then went another 11 miles before ending up in the ditch. Crashed with what? There's very little out there to crash into.

11 miles by Cactus Access road to Sun Valley puts him in front of Tartesso or Del Web Festival developments. However if crash that deployed airbags was at 30 MPH, that does not put him on Sun Valley Parkway (55-60 Mph). Going south and utilizing 315th Ave. puts him on Salome-Tonapah Rd. or in the middle of Tartesso subdivision. I took a quick drive through the main route in Tartesso and didn't notice anything. I have requested the June 23rd Incident report from Buckeye through public records law..

 

[JJ Ray]

A still (presumably of DR’s actual vehicle) I pulled from a tv news report previously when looking at the wheel arch trim - looks to have standard road tyres fitted.

View attachment 314857

That was my understanding, not really lifted and not off road tires. I do think it is 4wd standard.

 

[Trackergd]

I am leaning towards misadventure with the potential for abduction. Daniel may have driven out into the desert, either due to depression over his love interest or to meet someone. Due to the damage and data, it appears to me that he either ran into one or more hostile individuals or happened upon an illegal activity and was chased with an individual trying to stop him by hitting the windshield with an object (high lift jack) which caused him to loose visual reference due to the windshield damage and subsequent drive into the ditch. The number of starts and airbag deployment may have been due to hitting various natural objects during the chase and having to restart the Jeep numerous times. Possibly the impacts were enough to trigger the fuel pump lockout and Daniel had to go through the process of resetting the lockout and restarting the Jeep. With a lack of remains being located despite extensive searching, Daniel may have been removed from the area by those that eventually succeeded in stopping him.

 

[shadwell]

You are quickly getting up to speed!!!!
The panel can be kicked out. As you can see even the the back side curtains deployed.

Even from the first released picture the rancher took (that Mr. Robinson shared with the TV station in Columbia) the damage to the Driver side has been suspect. Mr. McGrath is confirming that when he says, "damage doesn't match the terrain" and the fact it rolled onto it's passenger side at the ravine. McGrath originally stated it looked "staged" after his analysis. I don't think that is an accurate way to describe. As he has stated he think there might be a crash prior to the car ending up in the ravine BUT it was still operable. So "dumping" and "staging" could still apply to Daniel himself as well as outsiders.

This photo shows what appears to be extensive “stove in” damage to the driver’s side wing ahead of the door, including extensive paint loss, a gouge mark running the length of the wing and a point on the leading edge of the driver’s door where whatever caused the gouge mark has snagged it.

 

[shadwell]

This photo shows what appears to be extensive “stove in” damage to the driver’s side wing ahead of the door, including extensive paint loss, a gouge mark running the length of the wing and a point on the leading edge of the driver’s door where whatever caused the gouge mark has snagged it.

View attachment 314860 View attachment 314861

Looking at it in conjunction with the police photo, it appears that the damage continues along the driver’s side, in a curve below the door handles. From that (if correct) my impression would be that the driver’s side scraped alongside something very heavy/solid which had one or two short but (again very solid) solid projections and the vehicle rode up on the driver’s side as it moved forward in contact with the object.

My first thought as to what the object that caused such damage might be would be something like a 3-4ft high very large concrete block with bolts sticking out of it - looking at what’s actually out there (as best I can online) I wonder if a pylon/transmission tower might be a contender.

 

[capitola51]

I had heard they are not 100% accurate and should never be used in isolation to physical and road/terrain conditions, tire marks, etc. In fact, when they first started the whole idea, Auto maker lawyers (and even Bosch's on lawyers) warned against even having an EDR component. The Module has 3 functions. Pre-deployment analysis coming from sensors, airbag deployment function, and then the third is the recording of the elements mentioned. One condition noted, EDRs record both pre-deployment events and Airbag deployment events. There are only 2 slots to record those events, when airbags deploy it is written to the hard drive and "locked". Also power disruptions have "stopped" the recording process. Problem with that, is there are "default" values in each of those data elements programmed differently by the each auto makers (other modules in the vehicle are suppling the EDR).

I believe this citation has most of the limitations...
https://cdn.ymaws.com/mcaa-mn.org/r...rp/Resources/EDR_Overview_2-2015_-_Virgin.pdf

Thanks for that EDR Overview paper. Yes, nothing that converts analog into digital can be 100% accurate, but the CANbus system does have a general accuracy of 96% or better. Fully agree with the takeaway about combining data from the system with actual observations from the scene - for instance if two vehicles doing 30mph crash head on the actual impact speed is 60mph although they will both have recorded 30 mph.

 

[shadwell]

I have pictures I would like to post so they wont go to waste, people could get a sense or view of the remoteness of the location he was working at and the isolation of where the vehicle was found that raises a lot of questions.

went in this gate Saturday Sept, 25th 2021 couple minutes after 8am and came out about 1:30pm that same gate covering about 14miles on my motorcycle and some walking(i do keep track of my miles since the bike is not equipped with a fuel gauge)



My bike at Daniels worksite according to the info provided

yes i am a proud owner ;]

Daniels worksite



picture of one of two hills i seen that could get you to the location where the jeep was found, the other hill is right next to the electrical facility that is a little more friendly but did not venture in..

Just to lob one in from “left field” - what’s your best estimate of the diameter of that well?

 

[capitola51]

Looking at it in conjunction with the police photo, it appears that the damage continues along the driver’s side, in a curve below the door handles. From that (if correct) my impression would be that the driver’s side scraped alongside something very heavy/solid which had one or two short but (again very solid) solid projections and the vehicle rode up on the driver’s side as it moved forward in contact with the object.

My first thought as to what the object that caused such damage might be would be something like a 3-4ft high very large concrete block with bolts sticking out of it - looking at what’s actually out there (as best I can online) I wonder if a pylon might be a contender.

View attachment 314866 View attachment 314867

In 354 thank you for posting a couple of stills from a video, one showing a close up of the impact on the drivers side. I wonder what kind of object would make that sort of round dent in the glass in just that one place plus the two little nicks in the A pillar? Those two nicks were something as hard or harder than the pillar, and there is little or no collateral scratching around the oval shaped windshield impact. Plus we have this 'paint transfer' thing going on elsewhere in the thread, and others have questioned the damage to the drivers side as well.
In your opinion would you consider that there is a possibility that some (not all) of the the Jeep drivers side damage could have resulted from a crash involving side swiping a truck coming from the opposite direction, and that isolated round dent in the windshield was made by the back of a truck mirror, and the two nicks made by part of a truck mirror mount?
If a hypothetical truck was coming from the other direction at any speed the two speeds would be combined to create this level of damage if they met drivers side to drivers side.
MOO

 

[shadwell]

In 354 thank you for posting a couple of stills from a video, one showing a close up of the impact on the drivers side. I wonder what kind of object would make that sort of round dent in the glass in just that one place plus the two little nicks in the A pillar? Those two nicks were something as hard or harder than the pillar, and there is little or no collateral scratching around the oval shaped windshield impact. Plus we have this 'paint transfer' thing going on elsewhere in the thread, and others have questioned the damage to the drivers side as well.
In your opinion would you consider that there is a possibility that some (not all) of the the Jeep drivers side damage could have resulted from a crash involving side swiping a truck coming from the opposite direction, and that isolated round dent in the windshield was made by the back of a truck mirror, and the two nicks made by part of a truck mirror mount?
If a hypothetical truck was coming from the other direction at any speed the two speeds would be combined to create this level of damage if they met drivers side to drivers side.
MOO

Tbh I’ve gone from thinking something like a crowbar/wrecking bar, to truck and now back towards wrecking bar/jack causing initial windscreen and pillar damage with other driver’s side damage resulting from a second incident (possibly collision with a transmission tower). Just to add re the driver’s side damage - to cause the ‘ride up’ along the driver’s side as a result of contact with a stationary object, my impression is that the Jeep would have needed to turn in towards it as it passed, suggestion deliberate intention (MOO).

One note re paint transfer - IIRC the Buckeye PD report noted paint transfer *from* the jeep onto another object. If I were out there I would be inclined to have a look around for a large, solid object (possibly with protruding bolts or similar) with grey paint on it - though if it was a transmission tower, it might be a pretty Herculean task.

 

[shadwell]

Tbh I’ve gone from thinking something like a crowbar/wrecking bar, to truck and now back towards wrecking bar/jack causing initial windscreen and pillar damage with other driver’s side damage resulting from a second incident (possibly collision with a transmission tower). Just to add re the driver’s side damage - to cause the ‘ride up’ along the driver’s side as a result of contact with a stationary object, my impression is that the Jeep would have needed to turn in towards it as it passed, suggestion deliberate intention (MOO).

One note re paint transfer - IIRC the Buckeye PD report noted paint transfer *from* the jeep onto another object. If I were out there I would be inclined to have a look around for a large, solid object (possibly with protruding bolts or similar) with grey paint on it - though if it was a transmission tower, it might be a pretty Herculean task.

Again just to add re a truck collision scenario - while I did think that some designs of metal truck bumper/fender could cause the driver’s side damage, my instinct is that the mirror would be too high to impact the Jeep windshield. Also, I think there would need to be an extra element of an altercation turned bad following any such collision for it not to be reported.

ETA - at the risk of going full ‘Cluedo’ my current thinking is that the windshield damage is the result of a deliberate impact from a heavy object (eg jack etc); the driver’s side damage is a second incident, perhaps intended to conceal the deliberate nature of the initial windshield damage and that that whoever was driving at the time then decided the attempt was not sufficient and tried to cause further damage, rolling the jeep deliberately or accidentally in the process.

 

[Canadianmom2three]

Just a bunch of random thoughts I've had reading this thread.
I'm not sure if I missed it or anything, but do we know the time of the first and second crash? Like how much time passed between the two?

I'm just wondering if possibly Daniel had the first crash and left the vehicle then, and someone else found it and joy rode around some before the second crash. They could have also gone through the vehicle to see if there was anything worth taking, which is why some of the stuff is outside the vehicle?

Also, perhaps, after the first crash there was problems getting it started, resulting in trying to turn it over many times before they could get it going. Another scenario is that after the last crash it was started multiple times to try to charge a phone or use the radio or something.

ALL MOO

 

[Curiousobserver]

Crash 1 (unknown but presumably 11 miles from crash site, unless driven in circles after crash.
Crash 2 ravine.
Here is the original interview with McGrath on wreck analysis. Also attached Owners manual link. The fuel system can be reset by a sequence of turn signal manipulations.
Private investigator says evidence doesn't add up for missing man | 12news.com
https://cdn.dealereprocess.org/cdn/servicemanuals/jeep/2017-renegade.pdf

Could there be 1 crash?, wheels spin for the equivalent of 11 miles, then another sensor trips and records a second "crash" that deploys the airbags?