AZ - Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea, allegedly shot and killed with an AK-47 by rancher George Alan Kelly, 75, Kino Springs, Jan 2023

[tara83]

Shooting an unarmed man in the back is not okay in the world I live in.

 

[worm]

I keep a firearm handy. We've had people thieving and, trespassing. We are rural, and it takes a bit for LE to get out to some folks' houses.

Same here but I’m not in “ready, shoot, aim” mode all the time. There needs to be accountability when a bullet kills somebody since responsibility is so important. I don’t get the guy “shooting over their heads” since he can’t insure the fall on bullets.

 

[shotgun09]

<modsnip - off topic>

Case in point: The autopsy has not been released. We do not know if the wound was an entrance or exit wound or both, nor if it was in the front or back of the deceased. But, a story has been released anyway, in dramatic prose. MOO

From the link posted above, and BBM:

"The prosecuting attorney in the case of the Nogales area rancher who is facing a first-degree murder charge alleged on Wednesday that the rancher shot and killed a Mexican citizen in the back as he ran for his life. "


Prosecutor Misconduct? Overcharging with the dramatic?
<modsnip - off topic>

MOO

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

If it was a matter of routine then it doesn’t sound like LE has done much. I wonder how far this goes back?

I think border patrol agents are overwhelmed and do as much as they can. imo

 

[NuttMegg]

I keep a firearm handy. We've had people thieving and, trespassing. We are rural, and it takes a bit for LE to get out to some folks' houses.

I have a lot of sympathy for those living along the border these days. In this case, from the 6-7 articles we have at hand, there is no account of thieving.

Sounds to me (IMO) that since this person lives right by the border in a known human trafficking area, he finally lost it and just fired away in frustration. Possibly he had also shot "above their heads" in the past but 75 year old people are not always that great of shots, imo especially when shooting at people running away, at about 100 meters. They found 9 casings from the place he shot. So one of them dies from getting shot in the back, an historical, humiliating landmark for any shooter claiming to be threatened or claiming self defense.

As far as Border Patrol being unresponsive, that is not the case here.

"Border Patrol agents and Santa Cruz County sheriff's deputies arrived at his ranch minutes later, but they were unable to find any people in the vicinity"

Nogales rancher charged with murder fired warning shots in self-defense, attorney says

George Alan Kelly faces first-degree murder charges in the Jan. 30, 2023, shooting death of a Mexican man found on his property.

www.azcentral.com

IMO

 

[Eli9]

He is not above the law. Shot them in the back? He was so threatened that he shot 3 people in the back with an AK47, who were 1 to 1.5 football fields away? IMO
"NOGALES — The prosecuting attorney in the case of the Nogales area rancher who is facing a first-degree murder charge alleged on Wednesday that the rancher shot and killed a Mexican citizen in the back as he ran for his life.

Kimberly Hunley, chief deputy Santa Cruz County Attorney, alleged that George Alan Kelly shot the unarmed man in an “unprovoked attack” during her remarks at a court hearing at Nogales Justice Court. At least two other people were with the Mexican national as he fled and they were shot at as well, Hunley said."

'Political powder keg': New details emerge as rancher charged with murder of Mexican citizen returns to court

George Alan Kelly, 75, is facing a first-degree murder charge for a man found on Jan. 30 shot dead on his ranch near Kino Springs.

www.azcentral.com

The article you linked, which is a great article by the way, does not say he shot 3 people in the back.

 

[rsd1200]

Same here but I’m not in “ready, shoot, aim” mode all the time. There needs to be accountability when a bullet kills somebody since responsibility is so important. I don’t get the guy “shooting over their heads” since he can’t insure the fall on bullets.

Agree. You don't shoot fleeing people either. The threat is gone if they are running away. I see this guy was shot in the back. That's a problem. A judge in AZ recently got into trouble for firing a warning shot and the man he shot at, had recently trespassed, thrown trash in his yard, and was driving past his home. The judge lost his cr@p and fired a "warning shot" and told him he was going to blow his head off. It bounced off the pavement and nearly hit the unarmed man.

Pima County justice faces misconduct charges after incident with firearm

Pima County Justice of the Peace Adam W. Watters faces formal misconduct charges, the Arizona Commission on Judicial Conduct announced.

ktar.com

I sorta feel this rancher's case is similar to the judge's. Frustration/anger got the better of him and in this instance, someone died.

 

[NuttMegg]

The article you linked, which is a great article by the way, does not say he shot 3 people in the back.

True, thanks for catching that. I read that wrong, it says "shot at". Killed one, does not say there were other firearm-caused injuries to other people.

 

[NuttMegg]

He is not above the law. Shot them in the back? He was so threatened that he shot 3 people in the back with an AK47, who were 1 to 1.5 football fields away? IMO
"NOGALES — The prosecuting attorney in the case of the Nogales area rancher who is facing a first-degree murder charge alleged on Wednesday that the rancher shot and killed a Mexican citizen in the back as he ran for his life.

Kimberly Hunley, chief deputy Santa Cruz County Attorney, alleged that George Alan Kelly shot the unarmed man in an “unprovoked attack” during her remarks at a court hearing at Nogales Justice Court. At least two other people were with the Mexican national as he fled and they were shot at as well, Hunley said."

'Political powder keg': New details emerge as rancher charged with murder of Mexican citizen returns to court

George Alan Kelly, 75, is facing a first-degree murder charge for a man found on Jan. 30 shot dead on his ranch near Kino Springs.

www.azcentral.com

This was not caught in time for edit. He is not accused of shooting 3 people in the back, just the 1 that he allegedly killed that way.

The article does not make the mistake, I did.

 

[Eli9]

I have a lot of sympathy for those living along the border these days. In this case, from the 6-7 articles we have at hand, there is no account of thieving.

Sounds to me (IMO) that since this person lives right by the border in a known human trafficking area, he finally lost it and just fired away in frustration. Possibly he had also shot "above their heads" in the past but 75 year old people are not always that great of shots, imo especially when shooting at people running away, at about 100 meters. They found 9 casings from the place he shot. So one of them dies from getting shot in the back, an historical, humiliating landmark for any shooter claiming to be threatened or claiming self defense.

As far as Border Patrol being unresponsive, that is not the case here.

"Border Patrol agents and Santa Cruz County sheriff's deputies arrived at his ranch minutes later, but they were unable to find any people in the vicinity"

Nogales rancher charged with murder fired warning shots in self-defense, attorney says

George Alan Kelly faces first-degree murder charges in the Jan. 30, 2023, shooting death of a Mexican man found on his property.

www.azcentral.com

IMO

Do we know if the casings were found at the house? I'm trying to picture the scene as I read that GK saw the group of men moving through the trees on his property after hearing a gunshot and seeing his horse startled and running. Perhaps he has tried this method of warning shots in the past and it worked but I agree it's very unwise to shoot in the direction of the men.

 

[NuttMegg]

Do we know if the casings were found at the house? I'm trying to picture the scene as I read that GK saw the group of men moving through the trees on his property after hearing a gunshot and seeing his horse startled and running. Perhaps he has tried this method of warning shots in the past and it worked but I agree it's very unwise to shoot in the direction of the men.

"A sheriff’s deputy testified that investigators recovered nine shell casings near Kelly’s south-facing back porch."

Judge OK's Arizona rancher trial in Mexican migrant killing

A judge has ruled that an Arizona rancher accused of shooting at a group of migrants on his property and killing a man will face trial on second-degree murder and aggravated assault charges.

apnews.com

 

[WingsOverTX]

Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly's murder charge downgraded to second-degree in shooting of Mexican migrant

Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly's murder charge downgraded to second-degree in shooting of Mexican migrant

George Alan Kelly, the 73-year-old rancher accused of shooting and killing a Mexican man on his Arizona property on Jan. 30, has had his murder charge downgraded.

www.foxnews.com

George Kelly, Arizona rancher accused of killing Mexican man, released on $1 million bond

George Kelly, Arizona rancher accused of killing Mexican man, released on $1 million bond

George Alan Kelly, 74, posted the $1 million bond Wednesday, supported by nearly $400,000 raised by Christian supporters on GiveSendGo.

nypost.com

 

[Eli9]

This isn't going to help much -

He has identified himself in court as a rancher, but also appears to dabble in self-published fiction about ranch life in the border region

One of his books, available as an ebook on Amazon, is entitled Far Beyond the Border Fence and is described as 'bringing the Mexican border/ drug conflict into the 21st century.'

The protagonists of the story are a couple whose first names match Kelly's and his wife, Wanda's, with a child baring his son's name.

The 57-page work revolves around the couple living in southern Arizona at the VMR Ranch — Kelly and his wife's real-life ranch is called Vermilion Mountain Ranch.

It describes how the character George and his foreman 'had to patrol the ranch daily, armed with AK-47s.'

Arizona rancher, 73, is charged for shooting dead Mexican migrant

George Alan Kelly, 73, was arrested for fatally shooting Gabriel Cuen-Butimea, 48, on his Arizona ranch on January 30.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Eli9]

Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly's murder charge downgraded to second-degree in shooting of Mexican migrant

Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly's murder charge downgraded to second-degree in shooting of Mexican migrant

George Alan Kelly, the 73-year-old rancher accused of shooting and killing a Mexican man on his Arizona property on Jan. 30, has had his murder charge downgraded.

www.foxnews.com

George Kelly, Arizona rancher accused of killing Mexican man, released on $1 million bond

George Kelly, Arizona rancher accused of killing Mexican man, released on $1 million bond

George Alan Kelly, 74, posted the $1 million bond Wednesday, supported by nearly $400,000 raised by Christian supporters on GiveSendGo.

nypost.com

IMO the bail was excessive.

 

[WingsOverTX]

An Arizona rancher who [allegedly] shot dead a migrant on his land that sits adjacent to the southern border with Mexico, said he did not know what to expect as he walked into court on Friday to face charges of second degree murder.

He was arrested on charges of first degree murder for shooting Gabriel Cuen-Butimea on January 30 at his home, but that charge has now been downgraded.

Kelly denies murder, insisting he only ever fired warning shots when he saw what he perceived to be a gang of cartel smugglers on his land.

'I don't expect anything,' Kelly said to NewsNation. 'What happens, happens. I have no comment about anything else.'
....
Earlier this week, after submitting a full-throated defense, the judge agreed to convert his bond from cash to surety.

It allowed him to combine the value of his home with $350,000 raised by strangers on a GiveSendGo account and return home to his wife Wanda.

Rancher who shot dead cartel drug smuggler doesn't know what to expect

George Alan Kelly is facing a 2nd degree murder charge for the January 30 shooting. He insists he did not shoot the Mexican man whose body was found on his Arizona ranch.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Knitty]

Thread is reopened. This thread is about one man, who is dead, and another man, who has been arrested in his death.

This thread is not for a general discussions about immigration, illegal or otherwise. This can not be solved on a thread on Websleuths, and discussing it only clogs the thread with information which is not about the case itself. If you wish to continue those things which have been removed, you may do so in private conversations with up to 20 other people.

 

[NuttMegg]

This isn't going to help much -

He has identified himself in court as a rancher, but also appears to dabble in self-published fiction about ranch life in the border region

One of his books, available as an ebook on Amazon, is entitled Far Beyond the Border Fence and is described as 'bringing the Mexican border/ drug conflict into the 21st century.'

The protagonists of the story are a couple whose first names match Kelly's and his wife, Wanda's, with a child baring his son's name.

The 57-page work revolves around the couple living in southern Arizona at the VMR Ranch — Kelly and his wife's real-life ranch is called Vermilion Mountain Ranch.

It describes how the character George and his foreman 'had to patrol the ranch daily, armed with AK-47s.'

Arizona rancher, 73, is charged for shooting dead Mexican migrant

George Alan Kelly, 73, was arrested for fatally shooting Gabriel Cuen-Butimea, 48, on his Arizona ranch on January 30.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Interesting. Does anyone know what a "golf station" is?
From your link "had previously sued to prevent a golf station from being built in Kino Springs" just a golf course, maybe they are called "stations" in UK where the DM is?

I don't see much visibility from his house, to the 80-100-150 yards away that the body was found, varying distance per several articles already posted. But maybe those photos are not February pics. IE less vegetation in February in the desert?

Was he just firing away at people seen through thick vegetation as shown in the pics in DM, allegedly, per his account, shooting over their heads?

 

[NuttMegg]

Agree. You don't shoot fleeing people either. The threat is gone if they are running away. I see this guy was shot in the back. That's a problem. A judge in AZ recently got into trouble for firing a warning shot and the man he shot at, had recently trespassed, thrown trash in his yard, and was driving past his home. The judge lost his cr@p and fired a "warning shot" and told him he was going to blow his head off. It bounced off the pavement and nearly hit the unarmed man.

Pima County justice faces misconduct charges after incident with firearm

Pima County Justice of the Peace Adam W. Watters faces formal misconduct charges, the Arizona Commission on Judicial Conduct announced.

ktar.com

I sorta feel this rancher's case is similar to the judge's. Frustration/anger got the better of him and in this instance, someone died.

I think it will turn out to be the same, frustration combined with poor judgment. But here's the trouble. If the government OK's that everyone kill trespassers indiscriminately, it's basically vigilante war. And to clarify, I mean trespassers 80-100-150 yards away, not those trespassing into one's house.

I am curious as to the makeup of gender and ages of the 8 people in the group.

 

[PriorTheCreator]

I think it will turn out to be the same, frustration combined with poor judgment. But here's the trouble. If the government OK's that everyone kill trespassers indiscriminately, it's basically vigilante war. And to clarify, I mean trespassers 80-100-150 yards away, not those trespassing into one's house.

I am curious as to the makeup of gender and ages of the 8 people in the group.

<modsnip>

We know a man is dead, shot in the back, he was unarmed and didnt pose a threat to the old man as he was over a football field away.

<modsnip: Opinion stated as fact>

 

[PriorTheCreator]

A group of armed cartel members are definitely a threat.

He was unarmed. Confirmed by MSM.