D
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The victim was unarmed when his body was found. Mr Kelly claims he saw armed men earlier. It's possible that both can be true. JMO.
AZ - Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea, allegedly shot and killed with an AK-47 by rancher George Alan Kelly, 75, Kino Springs, Jan 2023
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WingsOverTX
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JMO, but I don't think the government is taking this position. The prosecutor overcharged & the bail is extremely excessive, indicating that "the government" is on the side of a non-citizen trespassing on private land, over a border fence, wearing a radio & in the company of others for whatever purpose (most likely nefarious).
The "vigilante" aspect is trespassing on private property, rather than exercising one's rights under AZ law.
This case should be adjudicated. But fairly.
Right now, I'm seeing a good defense for GA. But it's an uphill battle with the government defending the very thing laws are in place to prevent. I don't think the prosecution is seeking the truth but maybe - maybe! - the trial will reveal that.
I have a problem with those with property on the border being at the mercy of an overworked border patrol for personal defense.
IANAL so I can't be sure AZ property & personal defense laws shield GA in this case.
I hope we get a better understanding as to how C-B lost his life. Right now, facts don't seem to matter to the prosecutor IMHO. That's a problem.
JMO
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I think it might refer to Gulf gas station.
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Looks like Mr Kelly was arrested and charged with 1st degree murder the day after the shooting while the investigation was just beginning.
patagoniaregionaltimes.org
Arrest in Suspected Homicide in Kino Springs - Patagonia Regional Times
Santa Cruz County resident George Alan Kelly has been booked on first degree murder charges and is being held on a $1 million bond.
patagoniaregionaltimes.org
It appears as though there are conflicting stories. What a surprise!
According to this article, and per the a written statement to the court by Defense attorney, the individuals were armed.
"As they ate, Mr. Kelly heard a single gunshot. Next, he saw his horse - who is old - running away scared and at full speed. Finally, he saw a group of men moving through the trees around his home.
They were armed with AK-47 rifles, dressed in khakis and camouflaged clothing, and carrying large backpacks. None of them were known to him. He hadn't given any of them permission to come onto his land. Based on the foregoing, Mr. Kelly was understandably concerned and reasonably feared for his safety."
Rancher who shot dead cartel drug smuggler doesn't know what to expect
George Alan Kelly is facing a 2nd degree murder charge for the January 30 shooting. He insists he did not shoot the Mexican man whose body was found on his Arizona ranch.
lol thanks. DailyMail and all that. Even in their headline they say "
"Rancher, 73, is charged with murder on his Arizona land after shooting dead Mexican, 48,"
Arizona rancher, 73, is charged for shooting dead Mexican migrant
George Alan Kelly, 73, was arrested for fatally shooting Gabriel Cuen-Butimea, 48, on his Arizona ranch on January 30.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Arizona rancher, 73, is charged for shooting dead Mexican migrant
George Alan Kelly, 73, was arrested for fatally shooting Gabriel Cuen-Butimea, 48, on his Arizona ranch on January 30.
It appears as though there are conflicting stories. What a surprise!
According to this article, and per the a written statement to the court by Defense attorney, the individuals were armed.
"As they ate, Mr. Kelly heard a single gunshot. Next, he saw his horse - who is old - running away scared and at full speed. Finally, he saw a group of men moving through the trees around his home.
They were armed with AK-47 rifles, dressed in khakis and camouflaged clothing, and carrying large backpacks. None of them were known to him. He hadn't given any of them permission to come onto his land. Based on the foregoing, Mr. Kelly was understandably concerned and reasonably feared for his safety."
Rancher who shot dead cartel drug smuggler doesn't know what to expect
George Alan Kelly is facing a 2nd degree murder charge for the January 30 shooting. He insists he did not shoot the Mexican man whose body was found on his Arizona ranch.
If they were in fact armed, I’d think it was likely that one of the victim’s friends would have collected his weapon for safekeeping.
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Same with the large backpack. It could have contained something valuable that they would not want to leave behind. JMO.
It makes no sense to me that human traffickers or drug traffickers traveling a route they are said to frequently travel, would start shooting at the land owner, in/near his house, while he eats lunch with his wife. IMO makes more sense that they would stay on a route furthest from the house.
Note his defense lawyer changes the story to "sees armed people" whereas he actually claimed on his call that "he heard shooting outside and “he might have to return fire or he is returning fire, something along those lines.”
“He sees armed people with rifles carrying backpacks going through his property, and he sees his horse running,” the defense attorney told the judge. She noted that two Border Patrol agents familiar with Kelly’s ranch testified “that is a high-crime area, that there are a lot of drug traffickers that go through that area.”
apnews.com
Note his defense lawyer changes the story to "sees armed people" whereas he actually claimed on his call that "he heard shooting outside and “he might have to return fire or he is returning fire, something along those lines.”
“He sees armed people with rifles carrying backpacks going through his property, and he sees his horse running,” the defense attorney told the judge. She noted that two Border Patrol agents familiar with Kelly’s ranch testified “that is a high-crime area, that there are a lot of drug traffickers that go through that area.”
Judge OK's Arizona rancher trial in Mexican migrant killing
A judge has ruled that an Arizona rancher accused of shooting at a group of migrants on his property and killing a man will face trial on second-degree murder and aggravated assault charges.
apnews.com
Did the man who was shot cross a fence or go through a gate to intrude on private property? Was that property marked appropriately for no trespassing? I don’t think I’ve seen any info on that yet.
I have 58 acres in the middle of no where. If someone comes on to my marked and fenced land without letting me know, they risk being shot by me. My husband travels, I’m home with my elderly mother in law. If it’s dark out and hear voices I’m not waiting to see if they are close enough to determine if they are armed and there won’t be any warning shots unless I miss. Especially if there are voices, that means more than one and you don’t know how close the quiet ones are. There is no reason to be on my land unless you let me know you’ll be on my land, ie my neighbors have my number. I walk up and down my 700 foot drive way all the time, that’s just under 2 football fields in length and it doesn’t take me long. I don’t have a hard time believing this man was fearful for his and his wife’s life in the dark. I’m also not sure if he could tell under darkness and trees which way they were going, so shot in the front or back, he fired at them, where people weren’t supposed to be; on his private property, people he determined were a threat to him and his household.
IMOO.
ETA:
I reread and saw, eating lunch so day time. I guess I assumed it was night. If there is a group of men sneaking around my land during the day without permission, rules still stand. You aren’t supposed to be on my land I don’t know who is closer and not seen. And at that distance, with my scope I would be able to tell who is facing me but dressed in hoody or with a cap/hat and no scope. FedEx and UPS have box at end of drive to leave things, my contractor lets me know when they are coming out, friends call.
I have 58 acres in the middle of no where. If someone comes on to my marked and fenced land without letting me know, they risk being shot by me. My husband travels, I’m home with my elderly mother in law. If it’s dark out and hear voices I’m not waiting to see if they are close enough to determine if they are armed and there won’t be any warning shots unless I miss. Especially if there are voices, that means more than one and you don’t know how close the quiet ones are. There is no reason to be on my land unless you let me know you’ll be on my land, ie my neighbors have my number. I walk up and down my 700 foot drive way all the time, that’s just under 2 football fields in length and it doesn’t take me long. I don’t have a hard time believing this man was fearful for his and his wife’s life in the dark. I’m also not sure if he could tell under darkness and trees which way they were going, so shot in the front or back, he fired at them, where people weren’t supposed to be; on his private property, people he determined were a threat to him and his household.
IMOO.
ETA:
I reread and saw, eating lunch so day time. I guess I assumed it was night. If there is a group of men sneaking around my land during the day without permission, rules still stand. You aren’t supposed to be on my land I don’t know who is closer and not seen. And at that distance, with my scope I would be able to tell who is facing me but dressed in hoody or with a cap/hat and no scope. FedEx and UPS have box at end of drive to leave things, my contractor lets me know when they are coming out, friends call.
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It was in the afternoon. Some of the articles posted in the last few pages, here, answer some of your questions. A man who accompanied the victim before he was shot in the back from 80 - 100 yards distant, describes being close to the border, he could easily get back. There are a handful of good sources posted here today.
Arizona rancher, 73, is charged for shooting dead Mexican migrant
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Maybe the shot that GK heard was the shot that killed GCB. It could be one of the members of the group that killed GCB.It appears as though there are conflicting stories. What a surprise!
According to this article, and per the a written statement to the court by Defense attorney, the individuals were armed.
"As they ate, Mr. Kelly heard a single gunshot. Next, he saw his horse - who is old - running away scared and at full speed. Finally, he saw a group of men moving through the trees around his home.
They were armed with AK-47 rifles, dressed in khakis and camouflaged clothing, and carrying large backpacks. None of them were known to him. He hadn't given any of them permission to come onto his land. Based on the foregoing, Mr. Kelly was understandably concerned and reasonably feared for his safety."
Rancher who shot dead cartel drug smuggler doesn't know what to expect
George Alan Kelly is facing a 2nd degree murder charge for the January 30 shooting. He insists he did not shoot the Mexican man whose body was found on his Arizona ranch.
I’m in no way saying that is what happened. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility in my opinion.
There are a couple of interesting photos of his ranch in this source.
Arizona rancher, 73, is charged for shooting dead Mexican migrant
George Alan Kelly, 73, was arrested for fatally shooting Gabriel Cuen-Butimea, 48, on his Arizona ranch on January 30.
When the police arrived. He was part of a large group. They certainly wouldn’t leave a valuable weapon. The rancher said he fired over the heads of the gang.
There are
conflicting reports on whether or not he was shot in the back. I think I’ll wait for the coroner report as well as the ballistics report. Until then we truly know nothing.
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Where does it say he was not shot in the back...I'd like to request a link for that because so far no one has posted an article with that claim.
"Confirmed"? No. MSM has done no investigation to know the truth or falsity of claims made about this event. They just relay to us what is being claimed in the moment. In fact, there have been lots of things in this case that MSM has said one day, and then walked back and said something different later on.
The investigation is this case is far from complete (in fact, it was incredibly hasty imo). In time I hope we know more.
JOOC, has anyone run across a definition of what kind of "ranch" this is? I have seen reports of just one horse and dogs. (Doesn't affect the facts of the case, I just wonder if in this case a ranch is more of a place to relax for elderly people, which may be why the traffickers have chosen his land as part of a conduit to Tucson from the border.) IE he may not have ever been far from the porch.
"Kelly and his wife moved to Arizona in 1997 and bought the Kino Springs-area land in 2002 before building the house in 2008, the motion read. The couple also owns land near Springerville."
"Kelly and his wife moved to Arizona in 1997 and bought the Kino Springs-area land in 2002 before building the house in 2008, the motion read. The couple also owns land near Springerville."
'Political powder keg': New details emerge as rancher charged with murder of Mexican citizen returns to court
George Alan Kelly, 75, is facing a first-degree murder charge for a man found on Jan. 30 shot dead on his ranch near Kino Springs.
www.azcentral.com
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See post 57 in this thread (further clarified in post 61), posted yesterday with link to an article yesterday (Fri Feb 24) with current info and which quotes Deputy Chief Gerardo Castillo:
"We have stand your ground here, but, if they deem that he was shot in the back while fleeing, then that may prove troublesome for the property owner. However,” Castillo added, “we do have an entry or exit wound either in the chest area or the back.”
So as of yesterday, they still didn't know one way or the other whether he was shot in front or back. And from what I've read, they also haven't linked the wound to a shot from Kelly's gun. Some of us want to see this actually investigated, with FACTS being determined, before calling for a lynch mob.
Victim in Kino Springs shooting identified as Nogales, Sonora man
The Santa Cruz County Sheriff’s Office said Friday that it had tentatively identified the man who was shot and killed Monday in the Kino Springs area as Gabriel Cuen Buitimea,
www.nogalesinternational.com
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