AZ - Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea, allegedly shot and killed with an AK-47 by rancher George Alan Kelly, 75, Kino Springs, Jan 2023

[Eli9]

I sure hope that all of the phone calls and interviews involving Mr Kelly and LE were recorded.

It's hard to tell from the preliminary hearing. Lot's of different facts and figures from all sides that contradict a lot of what has been presented as facts. I did note that on cross the person who had interviewed RAF/RAFG noted that he had a 30 minute interview with the victim (RAF/RAFG) but only 6 minutes of that interview was recorded. The person testifying did, however, indicate that his report documented the unrecorded portion of the interview. JMO

Wow!!! 30-40 times!!??? That is alot of times they were called!! And, just in the last month? Whew!

Also stated in the article was that the BP agents could not or would not give a number of times called to his property in the last YEAR! That says alot right there....to me.

It makes me wonder why the LE wouldn't believe Mr Kelly's story from Jan 30, knowing why he had called them repeatedly previously. I believe the reasons for his calls were more than likely the same, although the article does not specify so.

Previously I had stated my concerns and questions regarding ( my opinion ) the DA's charging Mr Kelly too quickly, and now I doubt even more, WHY ?...after all the time that LE and BP has been called to his property reportedly.

Peace

Well specifically they would not allow the FOIA request for the year of 2022. I'm so torn on this case TBH and am trying to approach it without any emotion. On one hand I see a man (GK) who has developed a relationship with BP Agents so much so that they have a key to his home and has stated that he prefers to call them due to the fact that they tend to respond quicker than the Santa Cruz County Sheriff office. He naturally becomes alarmed to the obvious increase in migration traffic and the call's increase. It would be understandable that the increasing encroachment on his property becomes more than a nuisance and that of a threat to his land and his dwelling with his elderly wife. It has been reported that he has been known to have shot a weapon before IIRC and perhaps that method worked out for him in the past and it was a method he was repeating to feel he was securing his property and his loved one.
BUT on the other hand I wonder if the repeated calls to his property were viewed as unwarranted and that he may have been seen as a loose cannon. Willing to fire off a round or two without regard or cognizance of whom he may have been shooting at and whether they were an actual threat or not.

 

[Lilibet]

Welcome, new member @CherCee. <modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Why should he cower in his own house while he has trespassers on his property?

And why should he confront them? I don’t think staying inside and being sensible and not escalating the situation should be called “cowering.” If the trespassers are not a direct threat (and from what we know so far from Mr Kelly, they weren’t), there is nothing to be gained from standing on your porch shooting over their heads. Call Border Patrol for the 41st time in January. It takes courage not to take the law into your own hands.

He probably needs to in the area where he lives.

<modsnip>

Peace be with you. We can agree to disagree.
All JMO

 

[Eli9]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> I question all of it also especially after listening to the testimony in the preliminary hearing but i suspect that GK's past history with reports to the BPA and the SCSO may have colored the detective's decision to bring upon the arrest so quickly IYKWIM. He was lax with them, they had a key to his home, if we are to believe that, and he may have made known his views or viewpoints on his situation with a continuous stream of trespassers, if that is the case. JMO

 

[shotgun09]

I question all of it also especially after listening to the testimony in the preliminary hearing but i suspect that GK's past history with reports to the BPA and the SCSO may have colored the detective's decision to bring upon the arrest so quickly IYKWIM. He was lax with them, they had a key to his home, if we are to believe that, and he may have made known his views or viewpoints on his situation with a continuous stream of trespassers, if that is the case. JMO

I was wondering about that also. Had Kelly ever been outspoken about his views on the 'issues'. Other than his book, that is.
Did he visit Town Halls, or Council Meetings? Did he participate in anything like that? Or, was he just this quiet, retired, leave me alone rancher who kept calling and calling for help?

 

[FLmom777]

Did he kill a man by shooting over a public road? Why else would Kino Springs agree to "expeditiously" provide electricity to him if he is not by a public road? Look at the map his house is practically, nearly in town. No way could he have shot to the N, the W, or the S without shooting over that road, imo

VERMILION MOUNTAIN RANCH

Vermilion Mountain Ranch is a must see property. This absolutely beautiful ranch includes 169.5 +/- acres of native grass lands with varied terrain and vegetation. It is a very picturesque setting wit

www.landwatch.com

His ranch is far from town. The map shows plots of land next to his property but no buildings. Scroll around and you will see the town to the west if his ranch.

 

[FLmom777]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but google seems to indicate that nuttmegg could legally walk on a public road, open carrying an ak47 in Arizona. Properly registered, whatever. And Kelly, if living along that public road, would have no right to challenge me for my papers, much less shoot at me. How could anyone claim self defense from someone passing his house on a public road, if it is public?

I think probably that shooting across a public road is illegal in Arizona. Anyone know for sure, still researching that.

Imo

It appears that the road is private. It is a dead end on his property.

 

[FLmom777]

He just happened to have his AK47 at hand while "having lunch"? If the murdered victim was unarmed, and no where near Kelly, ie at least 1 to 1.5 football fields away, where is the threat? BTW, the "word of immigrants" is as valid as Kelly's. Probably more, in this case. IMO

With his isolated area, it would be unusual to not have a weapon close at hand.

 

[Eli9]

I was wondering about that also. Had Kelly ever been outspoken about his views on the 'issues'. Other than his book, that is.
Did he visit Town Halls, or Council Meetings? Did he participate in anything like that? Or, was he just this quiet, retired, leave me alone rancher who kept calling and calling for help?

I think we may be presented with a colored narrative at trial JMO

 

[CherCee]

Personally, I just find the idea that the migrants fired a shot to be unlikely. They're just trying to get through there to some destination without getting caught. All the more so if you've got drugs on you because then you'll face US charges instead of just being schlepped back across the border. I think the rancher went out in the woods and shot at them as they were leaving, as the two witnesses have reported. I think he knew he hit somebody. He probably thought it through before he even made the first call and when he did he was already trying to set the stage for a defense: They were shooting and I shot back. Just my opinion.

They were heading toward his house, not away from his land. What were they going to do there if Mr. Kelly hadn't come out of his house?

 

[CherCee]

It would not stop it, I never suggested that. But a large backpack would slow the bullet down considerably, so it would not have enough force to go through and through the body.

Wouldn't it depend upon what was in the backpack?

 

[pentimento]

They were heading toward his house, not away from his land. What were they going to do there if Mr. Kelly hadn't come out of his house?

They were passing through his property looking for water and taking a momentary rest I believe, just off of a road, according to one of the victims. Where did you get the idea that they were heading to his house -- do you have a source? And they surely were heading off of his property -- running in terror actually -- when he shot 9 or more rounds without warning at the fleeing men, hitting and killing one man in the process. They were trespassing, not coming after him.

 

[pentimento]

I can get Kelly's frustration, I really can. But I can also see why the prosecutor called him a danger to society. He shot without warning. I'm sure he could have run them off pretty easily -- they don't want to get caught. But what if there was some innocent reason for someone to be there? Bear with me here. What if they were backpackers with large packs and had somehow gotten lost in the adjacent Coronado Forest land? Or needed help? It looks like there's trails not far outside his property line. It may sound far-fetched but I once camped with a wilderness group from San Diego in a gully in the desert near El Centro CA. Our lead guy told us that it was a coyote crossing and there were some water bottles, candy wrappers and bits of clothing strewn about so the evidence was there. We had to stay in the gully because of the wind and the rain that night -- it was one of times when your tent stakes are useless and it's only the weight of your body holding the tent down. It was a little spooky not knowing if there were migrant groups coming through at night, but we were assured by our wilderness expert that they just wanted to get through and wouldn't bother us. Anyway, the next day as a bunch of us gringos were hiking out of there with our packs we saw these guys come running at as from a distance yelling ALTO! ALTO! and it was the Border Patrol thinking we had just jumped the fence. I thought, you've got to be kidding but honestly until they were right upon us they could not tell that we were American citizens, even with our flashy North Face clothing and REI packs, etc. `And it happens in the desert that people plan poorly and get lost and run out of water sometimes. And then you've got a teed-off trigger-happy rancher who doesn't take kindly to strangers. JMO.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I can get Kelly's frustration, I really can. But I can also see why the prosecutor called him a danger to society. He shot without warning. I'm sure he could have run them off pretty easily -- they don't want to get caught. But what if there was some innocent reason for someone to be there? Bear with me here. What if they were backpackers with large packs and had somehow gotten lost in the adjacent Coronado Forest land? Or needed help? It looks like there's trails not far outside his property line. It may sound far-fetched but I once camped with a wilderness group from San Diego in a gully in the desert near El Centro CA. Our lead guy told us that it was a coyote crossing and there were some water bottles, candy wrappers and bits of clothing strewn about so the evidence was there. We had to stay in the gully because of the wind and the rain that night -- it was one of times when your tent stakes are useless and it's only the weight of your body holding the tent down. It was a little spooky not knowing if there were migrant groups coming through at night, but we were assured by our wilderness expert that they just wanted to get through and wouldn't bother us. Anyway, the next day as a bunch of us gringos were hiking out of there with our packs we saw these guys come running at as from a distance yelling ALTO! ALTO! and it was the Border Patrol thinking we had just jumped the fence. I thought, you've got to be kidding but honestly until they were right upon us they could not tell that we were American citizens, even with our flashy North Face clothing and REI packs, etc. `And it happens in the desert that people plan poorly and get lost and run out of water sometimes. And then you've got a teed-off trigger-happy rancher who doesn't take kindly to strangers. JMO.

<modsnip: Rude and personalizing> ... The scenario you describe is very different than anything going on in Santa Cruz County.

Glad you came out ok. Now, count your lucky stars you only had to be afraid of the BP & not cartel members who kill with no remorse & place no value on any human life, only the $$$$$ drug running lines their pockets with.

Wouldn't it be great if those jaunting across private land in this case really had to fear the BP or the courts? I think so because whatever reason they had for crossing the border (common sense says not good ones), it was two illegal actions by them that created the whole scenario.

GK was on his property. He didn't go to the border wall & fire into Mexico, taking a life at random. I don't think he killed C-B either, but we shall see.

<modsnip>

JMO

 

[Lilibet]

<modsnip: Rude and personalizing> ... The scenario you describe is very different than anything going on in Santa Cruz County.

Glad you came out ok. Now, count your lucky stars you only had to be afraid of the BP & not cartel members who kill with no remorse & place no value on any human life, only the $$$$$ drug running lines their pockets with.

Wouldn't it be great if those jaunting across private land in this case really had to fear the BP or the courts? I think so because whatever reason they had for crossing the border (common sense says not good ones), it was two illegal actions by them that created the whole scenario.

GK was on his property. He didn't go to the border wall & fire into Mexico, taking a life at random. I don't think he killed C-B either, but we shall see.

<modsnip>

JMO

I think we all get that he’s fed up, and any of us would be. We were fed up in Humboldt county and were fortunate to be able to leave our dangerous area almost 40 years ago. We’re not singing “Kumbaya” and ignoring the dangers in the border areas. The point being that it *could* have been lost hikers Kelly fired at or above. His proposed resort was going to offer hiking, so people do that there. I’m sure they didn’t look like lost American citizens to Kelly, but he’s making a judgement call at a distance based on his past experience and shooting real bullets in their direction. He ended up being an executioner, as it appears so far. Did he do as you correctly describe the cartel…kill with no remorse, placing no value on human life, to protect his (land) inve$tment? We don’t know yet. But we do know that entering the country illegally and/or trespassing are not capital offenses. He will have his day in court, which is more than the victim will have.

 

[Cool Cats]

The question was why he arrested. I think the detective was looking at the law, and the situation, and statements made and believed that he broke the law. Yes, he will have his day in court.

The officer arrested him "on suspicion of murder" because his story kept changing.

 

[Cool Cats]

Callers harass county employees over Kelly case

Santa Cruz County employees are receiving hostile, and at times racist, phone calls in response to the case of a Kino Springs man accused of the first-degree murder of a

www.nogalesinternational.com

Since Sheriff’s Deputies arrested George Alan Kelly, staff at the Sheriff’s Office, as well as the county courthouse and main complex, have received aggressive calls from people sympathetic to Kelly. "It’s just people calling, and, you know, expressing themselves. Cussing us out, basically." Chief Deputy Gerardo Castillo said.

One caller, Castillo said, told him he “sounded Hispanic,” adding: “So I hope your family gets killed.”

A dispatch log shows that the Sheriff’s Office received a report on Wednesday of “harassing” emails and phone calls received at the courthouse.

The callers, Castillo said, are not identifying themselves, and the area codes largely indicate out-of-state phone numbers. None of the calls seemed specific enough to constitute a criminal threat.
“They’ve been very vague,” he said.

If that changes, he said, the Sheriff’s Office would work with federal authorities such as the FBI to further investigate. But for now, the callers seem to be aiming the insults at any individual who happens to answer the phone.

 

[NuttMegg]

I think it is a private road as he doesn't maintain it and it appears no one else does either. His former address was listed 100 Willow Cross Cir., Nogales, AZ. It still comes up. EDIT: I have thoughts that the Kino Spgs Golf Club originally named some of these streets, now on his property.

100 Willow Cross Cir, Nogales, AZ 85621 | Zillow

100 Willow Cross Cir, Nogales AZ, is a Single Family home that contains 2455 sq ft and was built in 2008.It contains 3 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $2,570/mo, which has decreased by $106/mo in the last 30 days.

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View attachment 406431

Thanks for the map, now I see the barn.

 

[NuttMegg]

Why should he cower in his own house while he has trespassers on his property?

There is no proof that he has ever been threatened on his land, no proof at all that anyone or anything has made him "cower" in his house.

 

[evilwise]

There is no proof that he has ever been threatened on his land, no proof at all that anyone or anything has made him "cower" in his house.

Without a bullet all we have is witness testimony and circumstantial evidence on both sides of this case.

 

[NuttMegg]

Poor Mr. Kelly (who I tend to like, per my previous posts, except for his imo recklessness). After the DM and Fox get through he will have to pay someone to "buy" his land.