AZ - Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea, allegedly shot and killed with an AK-47 by rancher George Alan Kelly, 75, Kino Springs, Jan 2023

[NuttMegg]

Published March 3, 2023 9:50pm EST
Mexico wants Arizona rancher's murder charge upgraded after migrant shooting
"Vanessa Calva, Mexico’s head of consular protection, told U.S. prosecutors that the Mexican government believes Kelly should face a first-degree murder charge. She said Cuen-Buitimea, 48, was unarmed, fleeing and was shot in the back."

Mexico wants Arizona rancher's murder charge upgraded after migrant shooting

Mexico wants Arizona prosecutors to charge a man accused of killing a migrant on his property with first-degree murder.

www.foxnews.com

 

[NuttMegg]

Same press conference, photographed from a different angle. Nothing new in the article. SRE = Ministry of foreign affairs

SRE apoya a familia de migrante asesinado en Nogales, Arizona • Once Noticias

El señor Gabriel Cuén Buitimea murió en enero de este año tras recibir impactos de bala de un ciudadano estadounidense en Nogales, Arizona.

oncenoticias.digital

 

[clorenc]

Makes me suspicious that the bullet was taken at the scene because someone other than Kelly shot him. I have reasonable doubt Kelly shot him if there is no ballistics linking Kelly's gun.

If anyone had reason to hide the bullet, I don’t think it’d be the migrants, whose supposed weapons would likely be unregistered and probably even harder to trace back in Mexico.

Even if the group did fire weapons, why bother wasting time hiding bullets and casings or moving a body, when they could — and apparently did — immediately slip back over the border, undetected and unidentified?

No, I think that if a bullet were hidden, it would probably be by someone who knew that LE could find and match their weapon.

(This is, of course, just hypothetical — more likely that the bullet is lodged somewhere on the 170 acres, or that it’s been located and we haven’t heard yet.)

 

[Cool Cats]

If anyone had reason to hide the bullet, I don’t think it’d be the migrants, whose supposed weapons would likely be unregistered and probably even harder to trace back in Mexico.

Even if the group did fire weapons, why bother wasting time hiding bullets and casings or moving a body, when they could — and apparently did — immediately slip back over the border, undetected and unidentified?

No, I think that if a bullet were hidden, it would probably be by someone who knew that LE could find and match their weapon.

(This is, of course, just hypothetical — more likely that the bullet is lodged somewhere on the 170 acres, or that it’s been located and we haven’t heard yet.)

Interesting. You just brought up strong motive for GK to hide the bullet. If his gun shot the victim he wouldn't want the bullet found.

Why not just get rid of the rifle? Because he had called BP 30 times and they had seen him with, knew he had, an AK-47. Would be too suspicious if Kelly couldn't produce it. In fact, I think they didn't find it the first time but found it hanging on the wall during a second search.

If this happened it looks like he did try to hide it the first time around then thought better of it, perhaps after LE questioned him about it - if they did.

Just speculation. It bugs me the bullet doesn't seem to have been recovered, seems odd, fishy. A metal detector would pick it up, however, if shot from an AK-47, those bullets travel far.

 

[clorenc]

In fact, I think they didn't find it the first time but found it hanging on the wall during a second search.

Yes, I read that, although it wasn’t clear to me whether BP was specifically searching for it or just didn’t notice it. Might not be unusual/nefarious to move your rifle around your home when you’re handling it — but it is interesting to note in case it becomes relevant later.

The same argument could be made for the other side too, though — why would Kelly bother hiding the bullet, when he could’ve just not called anything in at all? I’m guessing as a rancher he has the equipment to help him bury a body — someone people might not come looking for.

Could it be because he had already called in a first time, so he panicked after it happened, figuring he’d be on BP’s radar if the body were found? Could it be that he was scared of retaliation if the witnesses reported back to the cartel? Could he have attempted to move the body but was physically unable to, so he got rid of other evidence instead?

Who knows. Certainly not us, yet.

 

[clorenc]

And one piece of evidence that neither side could’ve hidden is bullet damage to/around kelly’s house, indicating that he was in fact shot at.

We don’t know if any lodged bullets were found. The absence of them wouldn’t automatically mean he wasn’t shot at, or that he didn’t believe he was.

BUT if it were immediately evident that the house was shot at, I don’t think Kelly would’ve been arrested and charged (at least not as quickly).

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yes, I read that, although it wasn’t clear to me whether BP was specifically searching for it or just didn’t notice it. Might not be unusual/nefarious to move your rifle around your home when you’re handling it — but it is interesting to note in case it becomes relevant later.

The same argument could be made for the other side too, though — why would Kelly bother hiding the bullet, when he could’ve just not called anything in at all? I’m guessing as a rancher he has the equipment to help him bury a body — someone people might not come looking for.

Could it be because he had already called in a first time, so he panicked after it happened, figuring he’d be on BP’s radar if the body were found? Could it be that he was scared of retaliation if the witnesses reported back to the cartel? Could he have attempted to move the body but was physically unable to, so he got rid of other evidence instead?

Who knows. Certainly not us, yet.

It would make more sense to move the body off of his property and not call anyone if Mr Kelly was trying to hide anything.

That didn't happen. JMO.

 

[clorenc]

It would make more sense to move the body off of his property and not call anyone if Mr Kelly was trying to hide anything.

That didn't happen. JMO.

Yes, that’s my point — I am mostly in agreement. There are some remote possibilities, but none seem too logical.

To me it appears that both parties offered up evidence or information that they could have gotten away with, if they believed they were in the wrong.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the chaos was so sudden and confusing that none of them have a totally accurate understanding and recollection of the events.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yes, that’s my point — I am mostly in agreement. There are some remote possibilities, but none seem too logical.

To me it appears that both parties offered up evidence or information that they could have gotten away with, if they believed they were in the wrong.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the chaos was so sudden and confusing that none of them have a totally accurate understanding and recollection of the events.

I don't see the state having enough evidence to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr Kelly shot and killed the victim, Mr Cuen-Buitimea.

And that's the bottom line. JMO.

 

[pentimento]

The Mexican dignitaries make a good point though. If K was so surprised to find a dead or nearly-dead migrant (we don't know if he bled out or died instantly -- we may know that later from the autopsy) and thought someone else had shot him, why not call 911 immediately? Instead, IIRC, he texted the BP liason saying 'something really bad may have happened...., please get back to me right away,' or something to that effect. To me, he seems more worried about his own culpability than this man's life, and it's very odd unless perhaps you felt responsible for the death of El Señor Cuen-Buitimea. I think there's a very good case against him. JMO, of course.

 

[clorenc]

If K was so surprised to find a dead or nearly-dead migrant (we don't know if he bled out or died instantly -- we may know that later from the autopsy) and thought someone else had shot him, why not call 911 immediately? Instead, IIRC, he texted the BP liason saying 'something really bad may have happened...., please get back to me right away,' or something to that effect.

Kelly said it was 'too far to tell if they had any firearms'. Border Patrol Agents and Sheriff's Deputies responded to the scene and walked the property. They did not locate anything at that time,

Kelly called Agent Morsell again at 4.23pm. By this time, his story had significantly changed. He told Agent Morsell he was sitting in the house with his wife when 'we' heard a gunshot.

He said he saw 10 subjects all loaded down with AR Assault rifles. He said his wife saw it too.

Then at 5.23pm, he tried calling Agent Morsell again. He left a message saying 'you need to call me immediately. This is serious. Call me immediately. I can't say more over the phone.'

Agent Morsell returned his call. At this point, Kelly's tone had completely changed. He sounded nervous or scared. Kelly said: 'This is worse than you can imagine. This is bad.'

Kelly told him that he needed Morsell to send Border Patrol because this is a broader issue.

When Morsell requested the details, Kelly continued to be evasive and said: 'This is bad. I need someone to respond out here.' You know how shots were fired earlier, something was possibly shot. I can't say more over the phone.

One of the deputies turned on the recorder on his phone while they talked and walked with Kelly. Kelly told him that there was a shot fired and he didn't know what it was about. He went out to get his horse.

He said he 'walked all over it' and claimed 'maybe this happened after you left' referring to the earlier visit by deputies.

He said 'there's a body over there, as soon as I saw it I backed away from it.' Later, Kelly spoke with detectives. After initially denying that he shot at the group, he later admitted shooting.

He claimed he directed his shots over the heads of the group.

Rancher who shot dead cartel drug smuggler doesn't know what to expect

 

[NuttMegg]

Kelly said it was 'too far to tell if they had any firearms'. Border Patrol Agents and Sheriff's Deputies responded to the scene and walked the property. They did not locate anything at that time,

Kelly called Agent Morsell again at 4.23pm. By this time, his story had significantly changed. He told Agent Morsell he was sitting in the house with his wife when 'we' heard a gunshot.

He said he saw 10 subjects all loaded down with AR Assault rifles. He said his wife saw it too.

Then at 5.23pm, he tried calling Agent Morsell again. He left a message saying 'you need to call me immediately. This is serious. Call me immediately. I can't say more over the phone.'

Agent Morsell returned his call. At this point, Kelly's tone had completely changed. He sounded nervous or scared. Kelly said: 'This is worse than you can imagine. This is bad.'

Kelly told him that he needed Morsell to send Border Patrol because this is a broader issue.

When Morsell requested the details, Kelly continued to be evasive and said: 'This is bad. I need someone to respond out here.' You know how shots were fired earlier, something was possibly shot. I can't say more over the phone.

One of the deputies turned on the recorder on his phone while they talked and walked with Kelly. Kelly told him that there was a shot fired and he didn't know what it was about. He went out to get his horse.

He said he 'walked all over it' and claimed 'maybe this happened after you left' referring to the earlier visit by deputies.

He said 'there's a body over there, as soon as I saw it I backed away from it.' Later, Kelly spoke with detectives. After initially denying that he shot at the group, he later admitted shooting.

He claimed he directed his shots over the heads of the group.

Rancher who shot dead cartel drug smuggler doesn't know what to expect

I tend to believe that Kelly misled the BP as to where the group had been, making it sound like it was very near his house. Thus, I believe the BP looked around the area Kelly had indicated, even though it was not factual, imo. This being why BP did not discover the body when they arrived the first time, when GCB's life possibly could have been saved.

It's clear from Kelly's discussion, above, that he is imo implicating himself, and is well aware that someone that far away could have been shot/killed by him....."You know how shots were fired earlier, something was possibly shot. I can't say more over the phone." He didn't say that rival bands of cartels had been duking it out for a couple of hours before he went to check the pasture.

Also, there is another account of the reason he went out to the pasture, that had to do with him, paraphrased, checking to see if the horse was really OK, even after he had checked the horse earlier. Something made him check out the pasture. IMO

Turkey Vultures?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I tend to believe that Kelly misled the BP as to where the group had been, making it sound like it was very near his house. Thus, I believe the BP looked around the area Kelly had indicated, even though it was not factual, imo. This being why BP did not discover the body when they arrived the first time, when GCB's life possibly could have been saved.

It's clear from Kelly's discussion, above, that he is imo implicating himself, and is well aware that someone that far away could have been shot/killed by him....."You know how shots were fired earlier, something was possibly shot. I can't say more over the phone." He didn't say that rival bands of cartels had been duking it out for a couple of hours before he went to check the pasture.

Also, there is another account of the reason he went out to the pasture, that had to do with him, paraphrased, checking to see if the horse was really OK, even after he had checked the horse earlier. Something made him check out the pasture. IMO

Turkey Vultures?

So you think Mr Kelly misled the BP officers so they wouldn't find the victim's body?

If so why did he call them back and lead them to the body after he found him? I don't get it. JMO.

 

[pentimento]

So you think Mr Kelly misled the BP officers so they wouldn't find the victim's body?

If so why did he call them back and lead them to the body after he found him? I don't get it. JMO.

JMO he might have exaggerated how close they were to the house to make the situation seem more perilous to he and his wife. And if he didn't tell them that he fired shots and in which direction then likely the BP wouldn't be looking in the right area, or looking for a body or an injured person on the ground. If it's true that he called BP out there all the time, then they could have taken it another routine walk-about his property to make sure no one was there and there was no threat.

I think Mr. K sees himself as a law-abiding American, and he wouldn't have it in him to cover up this death. I think he was angry and he screwed-up and accidentally killed someone by firing too close, but his actions were entirely reckless and unlawful and without regard for the lives of other human beings who did not present a threat to him. Just my opinion.

 

[NuttMegg]

So you think Mr Kelly misled the BP officers so they wouldn't find the victim's body?

If so why did he call them back and lead them to the body after he found him? I don't get it. JMO.

As I said, I think he lied about how close to the house the group had been. I didn't say he lied so they wouldn't find the victim's body, I said they didn't find the body that first visit because of Kelly's lie. IMO

 

[Tbone144]

So you think Mr Kelly misled the BP officers so they wouldn't find the victim's body?

If so why did he call them back and lead them to the body after he found him? I don't get it. JMO.

Or the body wasn’t where he as shooting at and wasn’t shot by GK. If I fired towards an area and had BP check the area I shot towards, I wouldn’t be searching the other areas of my property with the agents there. Seems like coming across the body was happenstance, with the dogs finding it.

IMOO

 

[pentimento]

Or the body wasn’t where he as shooting at and wasn’t shot by GK. If I fired towards an area and had BP check the area I shot towards, I wouldn’t be searching the other areas of my property with the agents there. Seems like coming across the body was happenstance, with the dogs finding it.

IMOO

But maybe he didn't have BP check the area he fired towards. I don't think he admitted firing at all until much later. JMO.

He said 'there's a body over there, as soon as I saw it I backed away from it.' Later, Kelly spoke with detectives. After initially denying that he shot at the group, he later admitted shooting.

He claimed he directed his shots over the heads of the group.

Rancher who shot dead cartel drug smuggler doesn't know what to expect

George Alan Kelly is facing a 2nd degree murder charge for the January 30 shooting. He insists he did not shoot the Mexican man whose body was found on his Arizona ranch.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Deleted member 39678]

As I said, I think he lied about how close to the house the group had been. I didn't say he lied so they wouldn't find the victim's body, I said they didn't find the body that first visit because of Kelly's lie. IMO

So Mr Kelly knew there was an injured or dead person and their location. He called BP, pointed to a different location hoping that they wouldn't find the victim. If the BP found the victim on their first visit, according to your theory, they would assume that Mr Kelly was lying to them about how close the migrants were to his house.

So why did he call the BP back and show them the location of the body? Sorry but your theory doesn't make sense to me. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

JMO he might have exaggerated how close they were to the house to make the situation seem more perilous to he and his wife. And if he didn't tell them that he fired shots and in which direction then likely the BP wouldn't be looking in the right area, or looking for a body or an injured person on the ground. If it's true that he called BP out there all the time, then they could have taken it another routine walk-about his property to make sure no one was there and there was no threat.

I think Mr. K sees himself as a law-abiding American, and he wouldn't have it in him to cover up this death. I think he was angry and he screwed-up and accidentally killed someone by firing too close, but his actions were entirely reckless and unlawful and without regard for the lives of other human beings who did not present a threat to him. Just my opinion.

So Mr Kelly called the BP, had them search his property and hope they only searched a small area away from the actual location of the victim. Seems kind of strange to me.

Especially when you consider that he called them back and showed them where the victim was. I'm looking at the whole scenario trying to make things fit and this theory doesn't fit. JMO.

 

[pentimento]

So Mr Kelly called the BP, had them search his property and hope they only searched a small area away from the actual location of the victim. Seems kind of strange to me.

Especially when you consider that he called them back and showed them where the victim was. I'm looking at the whole scenario trying to make things fit and this theory doesn't fit. JMO.

If he didn't admit to even firing his AK until after the final BP visit when the body had already been found, then they were probably walking somewhere near the perimeter of his property to see if there was an active threat. It's a large property. It could be hard to see a body if you weren't looking for it, due the grass and vegetation. They weren't thinking that anyone had been shot because K did not tell them that he fired his weapon on that first visit, did he? I don't think he told them he shot at or over the heads of migrants in such and such an area, because he didn't even admit that he shot "over their heads" until speaking with detectives later. JMO.

' Later, Kelly spoke with detectives. After initially denying that he shot at the group, he later admitted shooting.'

Rancher who shot dead cartel drug smuggler doesn't know what to expect

George Alan Kelly is facing a 2nd degree murder charge for the January 30 shooting. He insists he did not shoot the Mexican man whose body was found on his Arizona ranch.

www.dailymail.co.uk