AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #10

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  • #661
Okay, friends. Please help me with this. Tammi is now saying Logan helped her find Eliz in SA.

Logan didn't know Eliz was in SA until Dec 27.

Therefore, Tammi didn't know Eliz was in SA until Dec 27.

Have I lost it? Is it time for my Baker Acting?
 
  • #662
It's all in her initial court date in Tempe. Coming from the COunty attorney.
Do you have a copy of the transcript, it's pretty much all in there. I'll go find it if you need it.

Where might I find it?
 
  • #663
Ok, if the Smith's knew that EJ was headed to SA then why not call the police down there and tell them everything they know about EJ?

they could have stopped this whole mess , BUT NO they had to keep going.

:banghead:
 
  • #664
  • #665
I've only seen Tammi and Eliz refer to that. Has it been confirmed by Logan or LE that Logan said something along those lines?

Elizabeth also said in her raw jail interview that Logan had never contacted her.

If Tammi is the source, I want to make sure I don't help her in any way to vilify Logan.

I have only seen this come from TS -- allegedly EJ told her that LM threatened to take baby Gabe to IL to live with his sister

Is this what we are referencing?
I am going to find where that statement came from exactly --what media source -- as the timing of that statement might be important to remember
 
  • #666
Thanks and welcome; Do you remember which part of the show that was?

It was the end about 45 minutes in to it. They had flashed all along about TS and JS admit lie to police and then all of a sudden it flashed about what FBI saw on tapes in SA and then quickly flashed back to TS admit lie to police. It was almost like it was a mistake because it was never mentioned in the program but I saw it in red on the bottom of the screen and then never saw it again. Not sure if im allowed to mention what it said so I wont
 
  • #667
Where might I find it?
WARNING: Long.

I copied and pasted from the original I did. The video is linked at the top.

http://www.azfamily.com/home/related/Elizabeth-Johnsons-initial-court-appearance-81147937.html
Elizabeth Johnson first court appearance in Maricopa County Superior Court, 1-11-2010.
KEY: EJ is Elizabeth Johnson, defendant.
Judge is the judge hearing the case.
AW is Arabella Whitney, County Attorney.
Judge: Johnson. Would you come forward, please? Would you, uh, state your name and dae of birth?
EJ: Elizabeth Johnson. 7-24-86.
Judge: Alright, Ma’am. You’ve been arrested on a direct complaint warrant alleging custodial interference, a class 4 felony. You’ve also been arrested on new charges, alleging, uh, child, uh, abuse, a class 2 felony and one count of kidnapping a class 2 felony. I’m going to appoint the public defender to represent you, and, uh, do the state wish to be heard?
AW : Yes, Your Honor. Good morning, Arabella Whitney for the state. Your Honor, in this case, the state is requesting that the defendant be held on a one million dollar cash only bond. The defendant in this case is currently facing charges of kidnapping, a class 2 dangerous crime against children, child abuse and custodial interference. Your Honor, while these are the only charges that the defendant is currently facing, there is a real potential that she could face more serious charges in the future. This is because in her own words, she stated that she killed Gabriel. Your Honor, I just want to briefly touch on the facts in this case which warrant a high bond. Your Honor, on December 11th of 2009, the defendant and Logan McQueary, the parents of Gabriel, met with Judge McVeigh (SP) in Family Court. At this time, they both agreed that they would share joint custody of their son, Gabriel. On December 27th, 2009, the date that Logan was supposed to get Gabriel from the defendant, he received a text message from her, stating that Gabriel was dead. In a subsequent conversation with Logan, the defendant told, the defendant told Logan that she had killed Gabriel, that she had put him in a diaper bag and thrown him in the dumpster. Your Honor, I do want to point out that the defendant in this case has also admitted, through a media interview that she did send that text message to Logan, stating that Gabriel was dead.
Judge: I’m sorry. Through a what?
AW: Through a text message. She admitted that she sent the text message to Logan, saying that Gabriel was dead.
Judge: And she admitted that to?
AW: In a media interview.
Judge: Media interview. Thank you.
AW: Yes. Your Honor, after the conversation with Logan, where she told him that she put him in a diaper bag and threw him in a dumpster, she told him that she was not going to tell him Gabriel’s location until she was out of the country and in a safe location. From this point, the search for the defendant and Gabriel ensued. The defendant refused to tell investigators, or Logan, where she was located and investigators began a nationwide search. If it weren’t for the hard work of the Tempe police department and the FBI in this case, the defendant would probably still be on the run. She did everything she could to conceal her identity. She paid in cash and she used a different name, a false name. Your Honor, if the defendant in this case gets out of custody there is no question that sh, she’s a flight risk. Not only are the facts of this case, the fact that she has, she has already fled, raised a risk for her flight, but the fact that she knows that she is currently facing higher charges in this case because Gabriel can’t be found. Your Honor, one of the most important reasons that she is deserving of the million dollar cash bond is the danger that she poses. To this date, Gabriel has not been found. The search for him is still on. The defendant is the only person that knows where Gabriel is and if he is dead or alive, and she refuses to cooperate and tell anyone where Gabriel is. Your Honor, there’s two victims in this case, Logan McQueary, Gabriel’s father, and eight month old Gabriel. And I want to point out the harm that is caused to both of those people in this case. The defendant took Gabriel from his father, concealed him, ran to Texas and somewhere in Texas, says she left Gabriel with strangers and/or killed him. We have no idea the harm that Gabriel has suffered or is continuing to suffer in this case, because the defendant refuses to tell anyone where he is or if he is dead or alive. And there is a real possibility, that Gabriel is not alive to this date. He may be dead, he may be alive, and if he is alive, there is no telling the danger that he is currently in. And this is all because of the defendant. Your Honor, the charges that the defendant is facing in this case, the fact that she is an extreme flight risk, the danger that she poses and the harm to the victims in this case, all warrant a bind of a million dollars, cash only. Thank you.
Judge: Alright, thank you. And she was, uh, apprehended in Texas?
AW: In Miami, Your Honor.
Judge: In Miami.
AW: She was actually, she was located in Texas, but she wasn’t found until she had made it to Miami.
Judge: Alright. Uh, ma’am, I have appointed the public defender to represent you. I noted you shaking your head and disagreeing with the comments of the
EJ: Yes. Everything she was saying was completely false.
[EJ talking over the judge]
Judge: Please do not interrupt. I, uh, I noted that you were disagreeing by nodding, er, by shaking your head back and forth with comments made by the county attorney at various, uh, times during her statement. Uh, while I recognize that you may have a different view of, uh, of what was said, um, I’m gonna urge you to, uh, urge or ask you to not make any statements here this morning, uh, given that you have been appointed an attorney and obviously that attorney is not present. Um, that said, if you elect to cooperate and, and, and talk to people, that, that is up to you, but understand that anything can, you say in here is, is, um, may be used against you. This is all being recorded. All that said, is there anything you want to ask me or tell me?
EJ: Um, ask you? I don’t really know what to say, but everything is so false, from the fleeing to everything that she said is so completely false. I
Judge: Alright.
EJ: I don’t know what else to say, but that.
Judge: Alright. Very well. Thank you. Um, I have reviewed the Form Fours, I’ve, uh, considered the, uh, statements of the state and the, the recommendation made by the county attorney, and given the gravity, uh, of the, of this case and the serious, very serious allegations, as well as the concerns for the continued welfare of this child, uh, it is ordered setting a million only bond of a million dollars. Uh, that million, uh, how, there are actually, uh, two different cases at this point. Are they on the same case number?
AW: Your Honor, I do not believe that they are.
Judge: They’re not.
AW: They are not, Your Honor. The direct complaint does have a different case number. I believe she, the charges that will go forward from this point are the new case number that she’s just been page 2’ed on.
Judge: Alright. Well, I, I, I’m going to set a million dollar cash only bond, uh, as you’ve recommended. That said, I don’t want to set a million dollars cash only in both cases. Um, [audio cuts out]
Judge: Well, if number 26 on our calendar gets, does not get pursued by the, uh, by the, by the state, then only the one bond will apply?
AW: Yes, Your Honor. And number 26, at this point, that would be the custodial interference?
Judge: Right.
AW: That only is not, that one will not be pursued. It’s going to be the new, new charges.
Judge: Alright. You’re not making it, you’re not withdrawing it at this time?
AW: We’re not withdrawing it at this time, no.
Judge: Alright. Alright, I’m going to set a million dollars cash only bond with respect to, uh, number 27 on the calendar.
Judge: The other matter, being a class 4 and the court being advised that the, uh, the state will likely be proceeding under number 26 alone, uh, it’s ordered setting, um, a hundred thousand dollar cash only bond as to that case.
Judge: So at this point, there’s a million, one hundred thousand dollar cash only bond. Um, in these two cases.
[Audio cuts out]
Judge: And, uh, we’re going to set these matters in the Regional Court Center in the Southeast Facility. Uh, and my clerk will give you the paperwork. You’re going to need date time and location of those hearings. Should you post these bonds, uh, you are not to leave this jurisdiction. You’re not to have, uh, any contact with the father, and um, is there anything else?
AW: Not from the state. Thank you, Your Honor.
Judge: Alright. Thank you. Thank you, ma’am.
EJ: When do I get a lawyer?
Judge: I’m sorry.
EJ: When do I get a lawyer? I don’t understand.
Judge: You’re appointed a lawyer now. We’re going to give you instructions on how to contact your lawyer.
EJ: Okay.
Judge: Thank you.
End of tape.

(I'm sorry, it's 6 pages long and the kids have been up and about. )
 
  • #668
I have only seen this come from TS -- allegedly EJ told her that LM threatened to take baby Gabe to IL to live with his sister

Is this what we are referencing?
I am going to find where that statement came from exactly --what media source -- as the timing of that statement might be important to remember

Three references I know of. The very first interview of Tammi (there's a video and she's on the phone so you only get audio), Eliz's raw jail interview, and the messages of which we may not speak.
 
  • #669
It was the end about 45 minutes in to it. They had flashed all along about TS and JS admit lie to police and then all of a sudden it flashed about what FBI saw on tapes in SA and then quickly flashed back to TS admit lie to police. It was almost like it was a mistake because it was never mentioned in the program but I saw it in red on the bottom of the screen and then never saw it again. Not sure if im allowed to mention what it said so I wont

My understanding is that if media reports it, we can talk about it, right?
 
  • #670
I've only seen Tammi and Eliz refer to that. Has it been confirmed by Logan or LE that Logan said something along those lines?

Elizabeth also said in her raw jail interview that Logan had never contacted her.

If Tammi is the source, I want to make sure I don't help her in any way to vilify Logan.

BBM :-)

I believe her comments about Logan not contacting her were meant to be from the time she kicked him out of the house until she ran with Gabe. Any number of the personality disorders she could be afflicted with (narcissistic, histrionic, borderline, etc.) would give her a tendency to use baby Gabe as a weapon and leverage to get attention for herself.

She probably thought when she kicked Logan to the curb that he would "be forced to his knees" and call, whine, plead, beg her forgiveness and promise to be good forever. The longer time went by that he did NOT call HER only reinforced that he did not care for HER, which she bridged to mean that he didn't care for GABE either.

Many ex spouses damage their children in this way. They raise the children to believe that because their other parent didn't love THEM, the parent didn 't love the children either. Sad sad sad the damage I've seen done to children because of this.

I believe Mz E suffered a borderline PD breakdown due to Logan's attention to regaining custody of his son through appropriate channels rather than through attention to HER. I'd love to know more about TS's earlier history and any possible borderline PD behaviors?
 
  • #671
Tammi from NG last night on being questioned by LE:

SMITH: Yes, questioned about the same things, about, you know, If you come forward now, you know, and come clean, you know -- and there`s nothing to come clean. I didn`t -- you know, they think that I set her up with a couple. I did not set her up with a couple. They can search through every ounce of my computers and see that I never -- you know, there was nothing. There is absolutely nothing. I would have had to take a flight somewhere and go sit in an airport, looking for a couple for her to adopt the kid out -- you know, the baby out to, you know? And it just doesn`t make sense. I mean, there is -- there is -- we have nothing. There is nothing. And they`re grabbing at straws, trying to find that...

BBM. I hope she doesn't think that means 'take an enema'

huh but isn't hanging out in an airport supposedly how she met Elizabeth in the 1st place? And why would she associate hanging out in airports as "shopping" for babies/adoptive parents?

Melissa
 
  • #672
It was the end about 45 minutes in to it. They had flashed all along about TS and JS admit lie to police and then all of a sudden it flashed about what FBI saw on tapes in SA and then quickly flashed back to TS admit lie to police. It was almost like it was a mistake because it was never mentioned in the program but I saw it in red on the bottom of the screen and then never saw it again. Not sure if im allowed to mention what it said so I wont

Hi Flmomof2 and welcome to WS..

If it was on NG national TV you can say what it said I missed the show lastnight, but it is alright to post what you read at the bottom of the screen. Just make sure you state that there is where you saw it since you wont have a link ...
 
  • #673
WARNING: Long.

I copied and pasted from the original I did. The video is linked at the top.

http://www.azfamily.com/home/related...-81147937.html

Link won't work, nmk.

Okay. Since the context was Tammi now says Logan helped her find Eliz in SA, I thought there was an earlier reference. It didn't occur to me that Tammi didn't know Eliz was in SA until the day she was on the bus leaving there - in fact - Eliz had probably already left. All this time I thought Tammi knew Eliz was in SA as of about Dec 22/23.

That's very, very interesting.

If it's true. :banghead:

Now going back to see if Miss Tammikins ever said she knew Eliz was in SA earlier than Dec 27.

It's just impossible keeping up with this woman.
 
  • #674
I've only seen Tammi and Eliz refer to that. Has it been confirmed by Logan or LE that Logan said something along those lines?

Elizabeth also said in her raw jail interview that Logan had never contacted her.

If Tammi is the source, I want to make sure I don't help her in any way to vilify Logan.

Elizabeth did contradict herself in saying Logan never contacted her but she then said not to ask about the baby but contacted her just to bother her. She said he wouldn't leave her alone. I heard Elizabeth say it when the media was asking her questions. So no not confirmed by Logan or LE. It was the interview that the Smiths were there also (on the phone) and said to her who told you about the kidnapping? Elizabeth said Logan and that is when Tammi said so basically you were on the ledge and he pushed you over.....Elizabeth said yes. Another thing Tammi said against Logan......grrrr!!!!!

Now I am confused on the killing text and the Smiths giving Logan the threat of signing papers and she will bring the baby back. When was that? TS is doing a great job of throwing me off. I will be glad to see a timeline from LE on everything from the day the Smiths met Elizabeth.
 
  • #675
Okay, friends. Please help me with this. Tammi is now saying Logan helped her find Eliz in SA.

Logan didn't know Eliz was in SA until Dec 27.

Therefore, Tammi didn't know Eliz was in SA until Dec 27.

Have I lost it? Is it time for my Baker Acting?
didn't Tammi know about the road trip from the start??? Does the info about the Smith gps being loaned to Elizabeth still hold true??? Is Tammi trying to say she knew Elizabeth went somewhere with the baby but she didn't know where (until Logan gets the death threats, etc)???

There is so much here that does not add up.

What also does not add up to me is this: Elizabeth has a lawyer... and if she were to tell the lawyer that TS set up the whole thing wouldn't you think the lawyer would advise her that it would be in her best interest to share this with LE and turn in the "real bad guy"???? I do not see the fiesty Ms Elizabeth sitting in the jail if it could be someone other than herself. I also have never, EVER seen a POI flap their lips as much as this Tammi character is doing (and wow is she a CHARACTER!) I seriously am at a loss for words...

As we say in nursing, this is a senitnel event (meaning it is one of a kind!).. Is it custody gone wrong? A murder? or illegal adoption??? or something else entirely?? Poor baby Gabe.. .that he has to be on the recieiving end of all these evil adults.

And one word to the wise for Tammi: muzzle.
 
  • #676
Yes he is...and if brokered..... commission for such a gorgenous child might be quite high.JMO

Someone posted here that TS was involved in a program in the Phoenix area for pregnant highschoolers and that many of her FB friends were high school age girls. Wonder how many of them adopted their babies out, and was Tammi Fay involved in those 'transactions' ? Not accusing, just wondering.

How would a person go about sleuthing THAT?:waitasec:
 
  • #677
huh but isn't hanging out in an airport supposedly how she met Elizabeth in the 1st place? And why would she associate hanging out in airports as "shopping" for babies/adoptive parents?

Melissa

Since everyone on WS has expressed an outrage and disgust at this predetory behavior. It seemed like a good thing before, now popular opinion has told her it is not.... cocktail personality?
 
  • #678
Link won't work, nmk.

Okay. Since the context was Tammi now says Logan helped her find Eliz in SA, I thought there was an earlier reference. It didn't occur to me that Tammi didn't know Eliz was in SA until the day she was on the bus leaving there - in fact - Eliz had probably already left. All this time I thought Tammi knew Eliz was in SA as of about Dec 22/23.

That's very, very interesting.

If it's true. :banghead:

Now going back to see if Miss Tammikins ever said she knew Eliz was in SA earlier than Dec 27.

It's just impossible keeping up with this woman.

Link all fixed now.
 
  • #679
I don't want to throw cold water on your idea but Caylee Anthony was also well dressed, clean and seemingly well cared for by her mother. People said casey seemed like a careful mother who took good care of Caylee.
I think that we see things in black and white too much. People who do evil things are usually not 100% evil. Evil people are not always 100% evil. Sometimes serial killers will feel particularly "bad" about one of their victims and refuse to talk about that particular murder, for example, even while they confess to others. Sometimes killers cover the face of the victim post-mortem because they don't want to see the eyes of the person they killed. And sometimes, mothers who kill appear to take good care of their children, or even act fond of them.
When thinking about how we view sociopaths, these things don't fit. We think of killers, sociopaths and mothers who kill their own babies as 100% evil and unfeeling. But, I have come to believe that there is a scale, it's not so clear cut and even evil can have some shred of feeling.
This is not to say that I think EJ killed Gabriel. I am on the fence, just waiting and hoping.

Nice post Gitana - I agree 100%

Salem
 
  • #680
Someone posted here that TS was involved in a program in the Phoenix area for pregnant highschoolers and that many of her FB friends were high school age girls. Wonder how many of them adopted their babies out, and was Tammi Fay involved in those 'transactions' ? Not accusing, just wondering.

How would a person go about sleuthing THAT?:waitasec:

I have wondered about this too. That is one of the things I have been combing through comments in the local papers for.
 
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