AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #15

[OneLove]

Yes, I have never once doubted that.
They wanted Gabriel and would do whatever it took to get him, even to go around the law.

Ok, since you believe this, let me ask another question.

If LE had NOT tracked Gabriel to the Smiths on Dec. 9, what do you think would have happened from that point on?

Would they have left Logan jailed on kidnapping charges? What then?

I'm trying to wrap my mind around what this means, as it quite probably was Plan A.

 

[~PrinceSSa~]

Ok, since you believe this, let me ask another question.

If LE had NOT tracked Gabriel to the Smiths on Dec. 9, what do you think would have happened from that point on?

Would they have left Logan jailed on kidnapping charges? What then?

I'm trying to wrap my mind around what this means, as it quite probably was Plan A.

Very good question!! Maybe that was the original intent all along??:waitasec:

 

[Prof]

Me too ... cripe!

I have to agree with you, I don't really see anything to go on to even think Elizabeth was into prostitution. I think she could have had a job interview, but I've said that several times.

I'm still seriously wondering if Elizabeth sold her laptop also - tend to think not.

I'm going back to several different versions of timelines trying to see if anything else sticks out. Otherwise, I think I'll just read and think and not post!

WB I have missed your posts! and you are the top poster from the report NewMommy posted a few pages back!



I have been trying to brainstorm a list of reasons for why I believe EJ would not kill Gabriel

She had not done so in 8 months of his life
She took pictures of him
She tried to find him a good home
She drove to SA with him
She had toys, clothes, food and medicine for him
She hired a babysitter --risky IMO if you are trying to hide
She texts Logan to say that she did -- I think she felt confident that she could do that because she knew Gabriel was alive --she did not think it out far enough though and seemed surprised that LE would hold that text against her because she knows he is alive

Any others?

I do think that it may take charging her with murder before she might talk, though

(have to go teach a couple of classes bbl)

 

[mamaeb]

Ok, since you believe this, let me ask another question.

If LE had NOT tracked Gabriel to the Smiths on Dec. 9, what do you think would have happened from that point on?

Would they have left Logan jailed on kidnapping charges? What then?

I'm trying to wrap my mind around what this means, as it quite probably was Plan A.

I have no idea. I guess it can't make too much sense. They posted pictures of him as their new son. If they had not found him, it would have been on the news. Their friends on facebook would have turned them in.

IDK. Maybe they would have left him somewhere safe where LE would find him.... then blame Logan?


I think Elizabeth in her dramatic outburst claimed Logan kidnapped him. Then Tammi had to clean up the pieces. Just like she did with the text that he was dead

 

[Shear22]

Ok, since you believe this, let me ask another question.

If LE had NOT tracked Gabriel to the Smiths on Dec. 9, what do you think would have happened from that point on?

Would they have left Logan jailed on kidnapping charges? What then?

I'm trying to wrap my mind around what this means, as it quite probably was Plan A.

I have been thinking about the same thing. Also, I've been meaning to ask if anybody knows how LE found Gabriel at the Smiths on the 9th. I also wonder why EJ didn't get into more trouble that day. That whole episode baffles me.

 

[NewMommy09]

Important Links for Gabriel

Tips for Gabriel * Phone: 1-800-THE-LOST * Email: [email protected]

Tempe PD: http://www.tempe.gov/Police/ Phone: 480-350-8311
Tempe PD Update page for Gabriel: http://www.tempe.gov/Police/EI/Gabriel Johnson Update.htm

FBI San Antonio: http://sanantonio.fbi.gov/ Phone: 210-225-6741

Silent Witness: http://www.silentwitness.org/ Phone: 480-WITNESS

National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC)
Gabriel's page: http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...en_US&orgPrefix=NCMC&caseNum=1137894&seqNum=1
Gabriel's poster: http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...seNum=1137894&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US

News

Logan's FaceBook for Gabriel: http://en-gb.facebook.com/group.php?gid=251236072296&ref=mf

WS Media thread for Gabriel: AZ-Gabriel Johnson, 8 months News Media and Updated Information ONLY. No Discussion.
AZ-Gabriel Johnson, 8 months News Media and Updated Information ONLY. No Discussion. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

KPHO: http://www.kpho.com/index.html

AZcentral: http://www.azcentral.com/

AZfamily: http://www.azfamily.com/

MyFoxPhoenix: http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/

FoxSanAntonio: http://www.foxsanantonio.com/

East Valley Tribune: http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/

WOAI: http://www.woai.com/

KSAT: http://www.ksat.com/index.html

KEN5: http://www.kens5.com/

Pics of Gabriel released by LE: http://www.kpho.com/slideshow/news/22251950/detail.html

Video of first news interview of Tammi on phone (audio only): http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_863.shtml

Raw Video of Elizabeth's phone interview: http://www.kpho.com/video/22155911/index.html

Interview of Smiths after first jail interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUyO-gU-qgA

Video with pics of park & youth hostel: http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_853.shtml

Who's Who pic slideshow: http://www.kpho.com/slideshow/news/22266104/detail.html

Hotels & Hostel

HomeGate Studios & Suites: http://www.homegatesuitessa.com/
Listed address: 11221 San Pedro Ave (Hwy. 281), San Antonio, TX 78216
Google maps address: 11221 San Pedro Avenue, San Antonio, TX 78216-3119

HomeGate Studios & Suites San Antonio Fiesta Park: http://www.homegatesuites.com/
Listed address: 10950 Laureate Drive Building C, San Antonio, Texas 78249
Google maps address: same

Quality Inn & Suites Fiesta Park: http://www.qualityinn.com/hotel-san_antonio-texas-TX859
Listed address: 10950 Laureate Dr, San Antonio, TX, US, 78249
Google maps address: 10950 Laureate Drive, San Antonio, TX 78249-3311

Motel 6 San Antonio South: http://www.motel6.com/reservations/motel_detail.aspx?num=4039
Listed address: 7950 South Pan Am Expressway, I-35 at Zarzamora St, Exit #150-A, San Antonio, TX 78224
Google maps address: 7950 South Pan Am Expressway, San Antonio, TX 78224

International Fun Hostel aka Santa Barbara Hostel
230 20th ST, Miami Beach FL 33139

Miscellaneous Links

Tornado Bus Company: http://www.tornadobus.com/index2.html
Listed address: 7914 Ih 35 South, San Antonio, TX 78224
Google maps address: 7914 Interstate 35 S San Antonio, TX 78224-1333

Raymond Russell County Park
Listed address: 20644 IH-10 West
http://www.sanantonio.gov/sapar/raymondrussellreservations.asp?res=1366&ver=true
Listed address: 20644 IH 10 West
http://www.bexar.org/CommissionerPct3/BCSD_CommissionerPct3_T112_R30.html
Google maps address: 20644 W Ih 10, San Antonio, TX 78257

Six Flags Fiesta Park - San Antonio: http://www.sixflags.com/fiestaTexas/index.aspx
Google maps address: 17000 IH 10 West 6 Flags Theme Parks of Fiesta Texas, San Antonio, TX 78257

San Antonio Library: http://www.mysapl.org/

Craigslist Phoenix: http://phoenix.craigslist.org/

Craigslist San Antonio: http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/

Sorry for quoting such a long post, but decided to quote it all because it's important and relevant and because I wanted everyone to see exactly WHAT I'm thanking BeanE for.

BeanE,
Thank you from the bottom of my heart. You are absolutely amazing, I know you are putting a ton of work into this. I hope you get your reward, cause I know exactly what you'd ask for. Baby Gabe safe and home.

:blowkiss:

ETA: Everyone, sorry for all my sappy-ness today. The last couple days I've been really down about baby Gabe. I felt the need to spread some positive thoughts today, and there are so many posters here at WS that are working their butts off. So I hope nobody is sitting at their computer thinking "Gosh, I wish that NewMommy person would just shut up already with the praise". LOL.

 

[mydailyopinions]

What are all your thoughts on LE not releasing information from the GPS?
Obviously from the news thread, it has been analyzed.

I personally don't think it is to keep anyone from learning her locations to warn a "potential" couple that they are on to them... (that hasn't been said, I am only brainstorming)
Seems to me that they would release that information though so that if anyone in those particular places may have seen something, they can call in tips. So many people don't watch the national news, yet do watch their local news, so I don't understand why they don't release those locations.

 

[txsvicki]

Me too ... cripe!

I have to agree with you, I don't really see anything to go on to even think Elizabeth was into prostitution. I think she could have had a job interview, but I've said that several times.

I'm still seriously wondering if Elizabeth sold her laptop also - tend to think not.

I'm going back to several different versions of timelines trying to see if anything else sticks out. Otherwise, I think I'll just read and think and not post!

What tends to make me think that EJ could have turned a trick is that she was in town with hardly any baby things, didn't have much money, wanting to give away the baby, but Logan was refusing the kidnap demands, so she may not have applied for a job knowing that she could be traced to Texas through Tammy. She needed quick money to move on, told the babysitter she wasn't sure if she'd need her again or not. She didn't say I "may" need you if I get this job here, I'll call you later, etc. The biggie is that she wanted the baby and Analisa out of the motel room and was somewhat truthful to the babysitter about her problems. Plus she was dressed the part unless she covered her half exposed belly up with some type of sweater when she left. She wouldn't leave on a coat while interviewing. She was running late yet wanted Analisa and the baby out of the room for some reason.

 

[kissdegirl]

What are all your thoughts on LE not releasing information from the GPS?
Obviously from the news thread, it has been analyzed.

I personally don't think it is to keep anyone from learning her locations to warn a "potential" couple that they are on to them... (that hasn't been said, I am only brainstorming)
Seems to me that they would release that information though so that if anyone in those particular places may have seen something, they can call in tips. So many people don't watch the national news, yet do watch their local news, so I don't understand why they don't release those locations.

I think, since there are 2 investigations going on, that they are searching all the locations for his body, and when that turns up nothing (hoping), then they may release it for leads again?

 

[kissdegirl]

Does anyone know if TX or AZ can charge someone with murder without a body? That would be great if they could threaten her with a life sentence to get her to speak or plea.

 

[time]

WB I have missed your posts! and you are the top poster from the report NewMommy posted a few pages back!



I have been trying to brainstorm a list of reasons for why I believe EJ would not kill Gabriel

She had not done so in 8 months of his life
She took pictures of him
She tried to find him a good home
She drove to SA with him
She had toys, clothes, food and medicine for him
She hired a babysitter --risky IMO if you are trying to hide
She texts Logan to say that she did -- I think she felt confident that she could do that because she knew Gabriel was alive --she did not think it out far enough though and seemed surprised that LE would hold that text against her because she knows he is alive

Any others?

I do think that it may take charging her with murder before she might talk, though

(have to go teach a couple of classes bbl)

Thanks, I saw that as I was reading everything here! Maybe I need to slow down!


Prof, I agree there are many reasons that indicate she would not kill Gabriel. The text to Logan mostly indicates to me the way things went in their relationship. I've briefly gone into this before. They knew each other for quite a while. Also, there was a friendship between Logan and her brother - I believe he introduced the two. Allow me to regress here with my own personal experience. I went through 10 years of hell between my daughter, my son, and the mother of my grandson! Honestly. My grandson's mom was my daughters best friend in high school who then became my son's girl friend then they became pregnant. They went through the whole realm of possibilties. My son knew he was not mature enough to be a father. She would not have an abortion. They decided to adopt, she backed out. And, on and on. Also, when something goes wrong between any two in a relationship like this (two siblings who are close friends with another person), it can be very heated and is not forgotten easily. Immature, I know, but .... I just see Logan and Elizabeth's relationship as part husband/wife (I believe somewhere Elizabeth referred to him as her husband) and part brother/sister - possibly the brother in the middle at times.

I think Elizabeth lashed out at the person closest to her, Logan. That doesn't mean she isn't this or that, I just don't think she killed Gabriel. The whole text to Logan could have been for some other reason - I still keep the possibility open that someone encouraged her to do this or was pushing on her to get him out of the picture and she came up with some wacky idea to do that or got her all worked up about hating on him.

As far as we know, she could have had other short episodes of rage, the text to Logan being one - but I never heard anywhere that she ever directed her rage at Gabriel, only Logan and material objects. That's the thing, I think her rage was directed at Logan almost exclusively? Maybe I am wrong. I think she knew she wasn't going to be a great mom and give Gabriel the life she thought he should have. It's a stretch to think because of that she killed him. I know that happens, but is probably not the rule. I'm not going to go into my whole explanation for reasons why she didn't want Logan to get custody again, but I just do not think it is a case of killing Gabriel so Logan can't have him.

I'm sure many won't think this makes sense and I can't explain my feelings and thoughts about it any better right now.... sorry I am not so articulate.

 

[vjlaw]

What are all your thoughts on LE not releasing information from the GPS?
Obviously from the news thread, it has been analyzed.

I personally don't think it is to keep anyone from learning her locations to warn a "potential" couple that they are on to them... (that hasn't been said, I am only brainstorming)
Seems to me that they would release that information though so that if anyone in those particular places may have seen something, they can call in tips. So many people don't watch the national news, yet do watch their local news, so I don't understand why they don't release those locations.

I think when LE gets a tip they may compare where it comes from to the GPS to see if it could be a valid lead. I think they don't want to release all the places she's been so people's minds go wild and think they saw something that is hard to prove. jmo

 

[kissdegirl]

Thanks, I saw that as I was reading everything here! Maybe I need to slow down!


Prof, I agree there are many reasons that indicate she would not kill Gabriel. The text to Logan mostly indicates to me the way things went in their relationship. I've briefly gone into this before. They knew each other for quite a while. Also, there was a friendship between Logan and her brother - I believe he introduced the two. Allow me to regress here with my own personal experience. I went through 10 years of hell between my daughter, my son, and the mother of my grandson! Honestly. My grandson's mom was my daughters best friend in high school who then became my son's girl friend then they became pregnant. They went through the whole realm of possibilties. My son knew he was not mature enough to be a father. She would not have an abortion. They decided to adopt, she backed out. And, on and on. Also, when something goes wrong between any two in a relationship like this (two siblings who are close friends with another person), it can be very heated and is not forgotten easily. Immature, I know, but .... I just see Logan and Elizabeth's relationship as part husband/wife (I believe somewhere Elizabeth referred to him as her husband) and part brother/sister - possibly the brother in the middle at times.

I think Elizabeth lashed out at the person closest to her, Logan. That doesn't mean she isn't this or that, I just don't think she killed Gabriel. The whole text to Logan could have been for some other reason - I still keep the possibility open that someone encouraged her to do this or was pushing on her to get him out of the picture and she came up with some wacky idea to do that or got her all worked up about hating on him.

As far as we know, she could have had other short episodes of rag, the text to Logan being one - but I never heard anywhere that she ever directed her rage at Gabriel, only Logan and material objects. That's the thing, I think her rage was directed at Logan almost exclusively? Maybe I am wrong. I think she knew she wasn't going to be a great mom and give Gabriel the life she thought he should have. It's a stretch to think because of that she killed him. I know that happens, but is probably not the rule. I'm not going to go into my whole explanation for reasons why she didn't want Logan to get custody again, but I just do not think it is a case of killing Gabriel so Logan can't have him.

I'm sure many won't think this makes sense and I can't explain my feelings and thoughts about it any better right now.... sorry I am not so articulate.

On the contrary, I think you made perfect sense and I greatly appreciate your insight. The way you articulated it made me actually visualize it, so I think you did well. I like that scenario too, might I add.

 

[Melanie]

I don't know if I think it was completely filled. But if that's Tylenol, it's darn sure way too much.

Personally, IMHO, I think it's a mixture of liquid and tylenol, or liquid only. I just can't believe a mother would give her baby THAT much tylenol.

MOO

Mel

 

[Ransom]

I'm petered out. I've been trying like heck to find the news video that's the interview with the Tornado bus employee who sold Eliz the ticket. I'll be darned if I can find it.

If anyone has it handy, could you post it please?

TIA

ETA: never mind. found it.

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_903.shtml

 

[Throttle]

Does anyone know if TX or AZ can charge someone with murder without a body? That would be great if they could threaten her with a life sentence to get her to speak or plea.

Yes, here is a somewhat recent example http://www.sanantonio.gov/sapd/coldcasesolved.asp#01Plaza

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Regarding the liquid in the med bottle, it'd be great to hear from the housekeeper whether there was evidence of any juices or Gatorade type beverages in the room. Also if she'd seen any other medications. If the liquid is only Tylenol, that is waaaayyyyy too much. The normal doseage for his age is barely anything - it would fit into the top portion of the nipple.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

What tends to make me think that EJ could have turned a trick is that she was in town with hardly any baby things, didn't have much money, wanting to give away the baby, but Logan was refusing the kidnap demands, so she may not have applied for a job knowing that she could be traced to Texas through Tammy. She needed quick money to move on, told the babysitter she wasn't sure if she'd need her again or not. She didn't say I "may" need you if I get this job here, I'll call you later, etc. The biggie is that she wanted the baby and Analisa out of the motel room and was somewhat truthful to the babysitter about her problems. Plus she was dressed the part unless she covered her half exposed belly up with some type of sweater when she left. She wouldn't leave on a coat while interviewing. She was running late yet wanted Analisa and the baby out of the room for some reason.

BBM

Do you have a link on this? Everything I have seen indicates EJ LEFT the motel room with the babysitter and Gabriel inside the motel room.

 

[marylandmissing]

Women with EJ's looks don't have to hook on the street. They find a few regular customers and stick with them. She'd get no business on the street. She's too pretty and it would be assumed she's a cop.(I'm not making that up.) If she did have a few sugar daddies before she left Tempe, that would explain where the money came from that she had on her. But, I don't think she was hooking on the street at any point. I work with prostitutes through outreach, so yes, I know some tricks of the trade.

Very few women hook on the street. They work as escorts and a good bit of escorts travel from town to town. They post on backpage, the erotic review, craigslist, eros, and a dozen other sites. They move town to town easily. Just start posting advertisements a few weeks before they go to an area and set up appointments before they even get there.

A girl like her could easily make 300.00 or more an hour as an escort.

The advertisements I saw that I think are her were from late November/Dec

 

[OneLove]

I have been thinking about the same thing. Also, I've been meaning to ask if anybody knows how LE found Gabriel at the Smiths on the 9th. I also wonder why EJ didn't get into more trouble that day. That whole episode baffles me.

Soooo..... if LE had NOT found Gabriel at the Smiths in the middle of the night Dec 9, would the Smiths have left the next day on an extended vacation?

Would Elizabeth have agreed to drop the charge against Logan for kidnapping (before he was jailed) if he agreed to give up any parental claim to Logan?

Remember, at that point, he would not have had to sign ANYTHING to give up parental rights, just let EJ sign a form for court saying that Craig Cherry was the father and have CC sign rights away.

Logan would never really have had to know any of that stuff if he was willing to just walk away. And maybe they were going to use a combination of criminal charges AND payoff to get him out of the picture.

I'm really trying to figure out exactly what Plan A was, all the details.

I'd LOVE to know what the phone records are between CC and TS on or shortly before Dec.9. And how long before that it had been since those two had talked. Could that be the reason why he said they were very close, to cover for sudden calls at THAT TIME, if there were any?