AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #17

[hoppyfrog]

Peeps--

Please keep your posts on-topic.

Off-topic posts are a TOS violation.

Thanks!

Hoppy
mod

 

[captdj]

Okay now that we know that TPS's first contact with LM to try to get him to sign adoption papers was on the 22nd, and we can imagine that there was much more to that exchange on that day, I find the conversation the babysitter reported with EJ's "grandmother" the following day making much more sense...

Analisa, when -- who was it that called her on the phone and they were -- it was very contentious, they were arguing on the phone? Who was that?

URIAS: She told me it was her grandmother. I mean I don`t know if that`s who it really was but that`s what she told me.

GRACE: OK. Grandmother. All right, Analisa, what, to the best of your recollection, was she saying back to the grandmother?

URIAS: I remember her saying, what am I supposed to do? Just go back? And, you know, that`s all I pretty much heard her saying. The whole time it was the lady on the other end screaming at her.

GRACE: So the only thing you recall her saying is, what am I supposed to do? Go back? That`s the only thing you recall her saying?

URIAS: That`s the only thing I recall her saying, yes.

GRACE: How long did the conversation last?

URIAS: Maybe a few minutes, maybe -- no more than five minutes.

GRACE: Could you hear what the woman was saying on the other end?

URIAS: I couldn`t hear. All I know is that she was screaming loudly.

GRACE: What did Elizabeth Johnson say to you after she hung up from that conversation?

URIAS: She told me, I`m sorry, that was my grandma. She`s scared because my baby`s dad is threatening her to tell her where we are and we`re in a custody battle.

So we can cut the nonsense that this was her grandmother she was talking to. We know that LE has verified that she was not talking to her grandmother. We know that the only person at that point who knew where she was and her phone number was TPS so we can assume that it was TPS on the other end of that phone IMO.

So EJ tells the babysitter that "whoever is on the phone" is scared because LM is threatening her and demanding to know where EJ and Gabriel are. Well I can imagine after receiving that text and whatever conversation and texting that went on between TPS and LM after that, that LM would be threatening TPS to give up EJ's location and would most likely have told her that if EJ didn't return that this could be considered a kidnapping and that TPS would be facing charges for aiding and abetting too I'm sure. I'm sure his father was involved in that conversation also and the fact that he is an LE officer, they both had to have had TPS getting pretty nervous at that point.

So TPS got on the phone to her "attorney" and "adoption" friends to try to see if LM could actually do this considering LM did not have full custody at that point and tried to figure out a loophole around this and she found out there was no way they could "legally" do this. And she knew at that point that there was already a LE officer involved who just happened to be the child's grandfather and I think she tried to pull the plug on the plan at that point. So she called EJ and told her the plan was off and she had to come back. But EJ had already cleaned out the trailer and had no intention of coming back. She had her new fake identification and she was ready to move on. And TPS scrambled for the rest of that week trying to get her to come back while EJ tried to figure out what to do.

Once again as per the babysitter...

URIAS: I thought it was kind of weird the way he was acting and the way she was treating him. I did consider calling CPS, but again, after that I lost her number so I wasn`t able to contact her or anybody else.

And also, I didn`t know how long she would be staying there because she told me she wasn`t -- she didn`t know what she was going to do next.

So after that phone call, she told the babysitter that she didn't know what she was going to do next. Well I guess not if TPS was bailing out of the original plan and telling her to come back and she had no intention of going back. So I guess the big question is did TPS come up with another plan sometime during that week or did EJ make her own decision on what to do on the 26th of December? If LM had signed those papers, who was supposed to go to SA and pick up Gabriel? Was EJ going to bring him back and go back to living in the trailer as a single woman? What was the plan if he signed the papers? :waitasec:


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/19/ng.01.html

MOO

This make so much sense that Tammi started backing away from the plan after pressure from Logan and then when Tammi Give Logan Elizabeths number Tammis decision was made to back out of the plan for fear of a kidnapping charge at this point....So she calling Elizabeth yelling how important it is to come back.....EJ says she doesnt know what she gonna do to the babysitter......

Big Question then: Who was the Appointment with ?
Was this appointment part of Tammi's original Plan or was this appointment made without Tammi's knowledge...

Maybe EJ plan was simple ... stay in San Antonio get a job, change jurisdictions, get logan to sign papers over to the Smiths...all with the Smiths Help.....

OK Im off to check the work wanted ads for SA...Didnt she work at CVS maybe she went there....

 

[b4e]

This make so much sense that Tammi started backing away from the plan after pressure from Logan and then when Tammi Give Logan Elizabeths number Tammis decision was made to back out of the plan for fear of a kidnapping charge at this point....So she calling Elizabeth yelling how important it is to come back.....EJ says she doesnt know what she gonna do to the babysitter......

Big Question then: Who was the Appointment with ?
Was this appointment part of Tammi's original Plan or was this appointment made without Tammi's knowledge...

Maybe EJ plan was simple ... stay in San Antonio get a job, change jurisdictions, get logan to sign papers over to the Smiths...all with the Smiths Help.....

OK Im off to check the work wanted ads for SA...Didnt she work at CVS maybe she went there....

I would think that if Elizabeth had a legitimate job interview, the company and/or interviewer would have stepped forward by now. Was she hooking? Meeting a prospective couple...or maybe at the library, checking for further instructions from Tammi via e-mail or myspace?

 

[Kamille]

Okay Kamille, here is my attempt into getting into the mind of EJ -- probably with the opposite approach of most giving her some benefit of the doubt

First of all --
I think it is very wrong for a parent to deny another parent's right to contact or involvement with a child -- morally, ethically, and legally wrong
I think it is very wrong to kidnap a child in the process of above -- morally, ethically, and legally wrong
I think it is very wrong for anyone to text that they have murdered a baby -- ethically and morally wrong

Okay here I go --
But what if this is all EJ did, and what if she did the above because someone experienced in shady custody and adoption deals convinced her that it was somehow right, that the ends justify the means?
What if EJ like many young mothers simply wanted to be able to give her child a better life than she had and decided maybe a little too late to try to give Gabriel that better life?
What if she is now hearing from all sides --lawyer telling her to keep quiet because she's going to get 20 years either way --LE telling her to talk or they might have to charge her with murder -- the Smiths' who she seemed to trust turning against her

IF all of the above is true, I can say she is a misquided, poor me, selfish, short-sighted, confused, seriously needing counseling and meds young woman, but not an evil monster

If I find out that she gave her child to some random couple in a park, that would have an effect on the perspective, because in the mindset above I did not account for that extent of naiveté

If I find out that she murdered Gabriel, then she's more evil than I could ever attempt to try to explore

Yes all above is the opinion of an optimist who gives too many people the benefit of the doubt lol

Well Prof, you definitely do give her much more of the benefit of the doubt than I do when I'm trying to figure out what makes her tick.

I see a selfish "me first" person who has learned from experience that the only person she can count on is herself and she will take care of herself one way or the other regardless of who she hurts along the way. So I think she was quite aware that what she and this "shady" adoption person were doing was not right, nor did it serve anyone's best interests other than herself. She didn't care what kind of home Gabriel would be going to, she barely knew the Smiths. And according to TPS she didn't even know where they lived or what kind of home they had. Her only concern was to hurt Logan by taking his son away from him and for her own freedom to do what she wanted. JMO.

 

[dini1976]

I would think that if Elizabeth had a legitimate job interview, the company and/or interviewer would have stepped forward by now. Was she hooking? Meeting a prospective couple...or maybe at the library, checking for further instructions from Tammi via e-mail or myspace?

Considering we know LE went to a SA library,we can assume that's where she went. Then again EJ was in SA for a week, is this right? She could've been doing anything at this point!

 

[Krystylsea]

I know!!!!! me too! Actually I think I would have snuck up quietly and grabbed him! Maybe she yelled and they ran? It was odd...

Anyway..Too weird! Feel like you could interchange names practically.

So does anyone actually know if Tammi was in Boston airport and why? I think she said she was having a lay over..but from where?

What story is being referred to is there a link?

 

[kappy50]

Well since it looks like there will not be a searching of the landfill, anyone have any ideas on what that last tip LE was waiting on before they wanted LM to take his road trip ????

 

[Kamille]

I would think that if Elizabeth had a legitimate job interview, the company and/or interviewer would have stepped forward by now. Was she hooking? Meeting a prospective couple...or maybe at the library, checking for further instructions from Tammi via e-mail or myspace?

Or out getting a fake driver's license? I would imagine she wouldn't want to have had Gabriel with her when going somewhere to get fake ID for herself only? Maybe she got on a forum at the library and someone told her where to go?

I found this the other day. Might have been her asking or it might have been someone sleuthing this case asking (or could be unrelated to the case) but she got that ID from somewhere so she had to have been given the information on how to get it.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_can_you_get_a_fake_id_in_san_antonio_tx

With the exception of the first word, I found it interesting that the rest of the question was in all lower case.

 

[danisisa]

Thanks Kamille :blowkiss:

We have it confirmed by LE if I'm not mistaken that she had a fake I.D. of some sort, so either Eliz or Tammi is mistruthificating about that.

I am convinced she had a room at both HomeGate and Quality on the night of Dec 26, although I don't have anything that will give me a hint at which one she slept at. I'm leaning toward Quality though.

Is it known if anyone was ever in the room?? What if she got the room at the other place for the "couple". DO you think JS may have sent someone out there behind TS back and then later told her? I think the "daddy JS", so he's been called knows more. That would explain why she said she only stayed at the one. EJ is not going to tell what she does not have to.

I am trying to find out if TS or JS have filed business start up papers in South Padre Island.

 

[dini1976]

Well since it looks like there will not be a searching of the landfill, anyone have any ideas on what that last tip LE was waiting on before they wanted LM to take his road trip ????

Oh man that's a hard one! I read last night about her car, and what may have been on it, or where it could've been. So maybe the car.

 

[captdj]

I would think that if Elizabeth had a legitimate job interview, the company and/or interviewer would have stepped forward by now. Was she hooking? Meeting a prospective couple...or maybe at the library, checking for further instructions from Tammi via e-mail or myspace?

If she was meeting with the couple - I can't see that as part of Tammi's plan.

She already talking by phone to Tammi, ( but we do know she went to the library...don't know when)

Would an Attorney or a Doctor come forward If Elizabeth had met with them...because it appeared to be a scheduled appt somewhere because she was angry that the babysitter was late....

Ok I hope she doesn't have any new tattoos :sick:

 

[danisisa]

I can't get on the Texas Secretary of State- A user name and password is required and have to go to work.

 

[captdj]

Or out getting a fake driver's license? I would imagine she wouldn't want to have had Gabriel with her when going somewhere to get fake ID for herself only? Maybe she got on a forum at the library and someone told her where to go?

I found this the other day. Might have been her asking or it might have been someone sleuthing this case asking (or could be unrelated to the case) but she got that ID from somewhere so she had to have been given the information on how to get it.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_can_you_get_a_fake_id_in_san_antonio_tx

With the exception of the first word, I found it interesting that the rest of the question was in all lower case.

under history that question was dated Mar 2009 funny no one answered it.

 

[OneLove]

.

JOSTAD: Now, Tammi, did you know...

SMITH: You know, there`s just -- there`s a lot of that. There`s text messages back and forth, you know, asking her to come back, to come to court, we`ll get an attorney for her, things like that. So you know, now the police have all that evidence, and now, hopefully, they will see that and -- you know, because before, we told them, but they never did get it. They never looked at it. So hopefully, that will show them that this is -- that, you know, we should not even be persons of interest at this point because we obviously were looking out for her best interests and making sure that she did everything correct and legal.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/15/ng.01.html

Would "correct and legal" also include helping her get a new fake identity?

IF evidence is found that they did help her do this, does anyone know what, if any, charges there would be for that?

Would simply giving her advice and sources for that just be horrible behavior, or would it add to "conspiracy to commit custodial interference"?

 

[YellowSubmarine]

oke:

Hey, don't forget everyone -- we have seperate threads to discuss different topics. Let's try to keep discussions of topics we have on threads on those threads!

 

[captdj]

OK thinking that EJ could have been looking for a job(maybe) on that important meeting I found 2 jobs that EJ might apply

One was Forever 21 it was posted 12/14 and reposted 1/29
Its a clothing store for young people....

the other was Dollar Thifty- customer service.....

 

[sleuth2001]

Just getting in from work so I am catching up. When the news broke that they were at the landfill friday I think it was a mistake that everyone figured they were searching for Gabriel. I seen the story and under it listed in other stories there was a link that police were searching that very same landfill for a computer involved in another case. I believe it was a man from PA and involved a teenage girl. About the hotels. I think EJ never checked out of either hotel she just left which would explain why she had two hotels on the same night.

 

[sleuth2001]

About the hotels. I think EJ never checked out of either hotel she just left which would explain why she had two hotels on the same night.[/QUOTE]

forgot to mention that the not checking out was reported on the news somewhere not my opinion.

 

[Chemeria]

Someone stated on TS's facebook something about a carseat bought for G at a toysrus is there anything about that? I haven't seen anything about that anywhere... and.. where are the other threads ? I dont kno whow to get to them..

Thank you

 

[BeanE]

Someone stated on TS's facebook something about a carseat bought for G at a toysrus is there anything about that? I haven't seen anything about that anywhere... and.. where are the other threads ? I dont kno whow to get to them..

Thank you

Here's the link to Gabriel's forum:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=380"]Gabriel Johnson - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]