AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #3

[Firefly]

Tammie Smith

"The whole point is we were dangling the carrot to get her to come back here"

Yeah, the NG show is dangling some $carrots$ for you ,TS, and you are twisting your own sad life up now. This show is golden.

 

[Marigold]

I don't get cable, is there any kind soul out there that could tape the next showing and upload it to Youtube for the rest of us? Many thanks in advance.

 

[Searchfortruth]

JS when questioned about the court orders and if he had seen them, said no and then he fumbled on about wanting only to see the facts? such as shot records? so court records are not facts in his opinion?

Well, just as long as Elizabeth had the shot records up to date, getting approval from the father must have been a minor technicality. I can't believe the shot record was the only fact Tammi and Jack cared about, this is not a dog for Gods sake !

 

[Dear Prudence]

One would never go to Mexico from San Antonio via Victoria, I can almost guarantee these phone pings were on her trip to Florida.

San Antonio to Mexico is 150 miles, San Antonio-Victoria-Mexico probably about 275 miles

Yes, on a bus ride from San Antonio to Florida I can easily see the route being San Antonio-Victoria-Houston. It's sensational journalism in my opinion.

 

[pghbrandi]

I don't get cable, is there any kind soul out there that could tape the next showing and upload it to Youtube for the rest of us? Many thanks in advance.

I think you might be able to go to the NG site and watch it there. I don't know how to do all the Youtube stuff.

 

[what about this?]

I kind of believe that EJ is working with LE, and that's where the Nashville connection is coming in. --

Okay - Logical Minds - I know you are going to hate me for this, but I believe EJ was brainwashed and coerced by TPS --

Really, there is such a thing as postpartum depression -- really, there is --

And everything in her background -- uhhhh, how many of us have been a foster child??? and even if we were, everyone has a different experience, but really, that is not what we have experienced, have we? And if so -- people with experience being a foster care child - what was it like?

The thing is - I believe, after hearing that Logan and Elizabeth lived together for 2 years -- that her behavior changed totally after she had the baby -- that postpartum depression and the foster care/parents problem had a great deal to do with it.

Who are we to say how she felt? Who are we to know what led up to this -- influences, etc.

I hope and pray that the right attorney (not money-hungry pro bono atty) gets involved and finds this baby.

I really do not ever want to judge someone on a path that I have never walked on (so to speak).

As a matter of fact -- I love you, Elizabeth -- it's been really rough -- where is your beautiful baby boy? And you will get help -- just tell us what happened.

Thanks,

your friend,

Marianne

 

[Dear Prudence]

Well, Nashville is making a lot more sense now!

We knew TPS's business existed in Nashville originally, but to hear that there was a sighting of Gabe there, and to hear both of the Smith's admit to having friends and family there, etc...

It's all starting to make sense to me now.

If someone left Nashville, heading to San Antonio... at the same time someone left Tempe heading to San Antonio... I wonder how close to San Antonio they would intersect... just pondering :innocent:

BBM

Noooooo! Not mathmatical word problems. I was terrible at those. But, it's a good thought so I'll just ponder with you until someone really smart replies.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Not to mention, if she drove from Tempe to San Antonio, wouldn't she have gone thru El Paso?
That's on the border.

 

[CHICANA]

Exactly and I was thinking of all the border cities in Texas Victoria doesn't make any sense.

This is driving me crazy, I was checking out some names associated with either the Smith's or that church in Texas that had 'adoption meetings' in the park and came across someone with ties to KY, TN,AZ and TX, I remember something about Victoria TX from my searching but can't remember who I was looking at. I would be such a great sleuth if only I could remember who/what I'm sleuthing from one day to the next.:waitasec:

 

[time]

Well, just as long as Elizabeth had the shot records up to date, getting approval from the father must have been a minor technicality. I can't believe the shot record was the only fact Tammi and Jack cared about, this is not a dog for Gods sake !

You know, if you were trying to hide a baby, you wouldn't want to take it to a doctor to get shots. Plus, THAT costs money :innocent:

 

[pghbrandi]

I kind of believe that EJ is working with LE, and that's where the Nashville connection is coming in. --

Okay - Logical Minds - I know you are going to hate me for this, but I believe EJ was brainwashed and coerced by TPS --

Really, there is such a thing as postpartum depression -- really, there is --

And everything in her background -- uhhhh, how many of us have been a foster child??? and even if we were, everyone has a different experience, but really, that is not what we have experienced, have we? And if so -- people with experience being a foster care child - what was it like?

The thing is - I believe, after hearing that Logan and Elizabeth lived together for 2 years -- that her behavior changed totally after she had the baby -- that postpartum depression and the foster care/parents problem had a great deal to do with it.

Who are we to say how she felt? Who are we to know what led up to this -- influences, etc.

I hope and pray that the right attorney (not money-hungry pro bono atty) gets involved and finds this baby.

I really do not ever want to judge someone on a path that I have never walked on (so to speak).

As a matter of fact -- I love you, Elizabeth -- it's been really rough -- where is your beautiful baby boy? And you will get help -- just tell us what happened.

Thanks,

your friend,

Marianne

IF she had any love for Gabriel, she would've stayed on her meds for postpartum. (This is all my opinion) Being that she went through foster care herself, she should have wanted a better life for Gabriel. She didn't. All this blabbering about this is her way of giving Gabriel a better life is complete BS in my mind. She is selfish, doesn't care about anyone but herself. Her own grandfather said she is not the type to be a mother.

 

[danni]

Well, Nashville is making a lot more sense now!

We knew TPS's business existed in Nashville originally, but to hear that there was a sighting of Gabe there, and to hear both of the Smith's admit to having friends and family there, etc...

It's all starting to make sense to me now.

If someone left Nashville, heading to San Antonio... at the same time someone left Tempe heading to San Antonio... I wonder how close to San Antonio they would intersect... just pondering :innocent:

Nashville to San Antonio = 940 miles
Tempe to San Antonio = 980 miles

All milage is a rounded rough estimate.

So being that there is about a 20 mile difference they would actually get there about the same time as long as road conditions were faverable for both.

 

[SuziQ]

Caller is asking tammie why she was trying to shut Jack up...

Ha! Which one of us called in?

 

[A_Closer_Look]

BBM

Noooooo! Not mathmatical word problems. I was terrible at those. But, it's a good thought so I'll just ponder with you until someone really smart replies.

Seems to me, according to map-quest, they'd both arrive in San Antonio within about 30 minutes of each other, weather permitting
(EDIT - Thank you danni for the actual mileage and time, i had exited Mapquest already and was trying to remember)

I think this whole thing was set up by the Smith's. I think they know who has the baby, and that it's a family member or friend in Nashville or near there. I think that EJ might not actually have any idea who has the baby, aside from the hand off to an unknown (to her) person. It makes perfect sense to set up someone from Nashville to meet someone from Tempe... in San Antonio.

I also agree with an above poster that EJ might very well be singing like crazy, and it would make perfect sense for LE to claim that she isn't saying anything.

 

[Firefly]

IF she had any love for Gabriel, she would've stayed on her meds for postpartum. (This is all my opinion) Being that she went through foster care herself, she should have wanted a better life for Gabriel. She didn't. All this blabbering about this is her way of giving Gabriel a better life is complete BS in my mind. She is selfish, doesn't care about anyone but herself. Her own grandfather said she is not the type to be a mother.

Kinda makes you think that she is trying to recreate her own life for him....being "abandoned" with no connection to her own parents. This is all this poor thing knows and this is why she seems so willing to give him a better life...even if it is with strangers. The Smith's have found a prime victim for their own agenda and she fell prey to them. The brainwashing was not too long so hope that she finds something inside of herself to save her connection with her own child and tell the LE where he is.

 

[pghbrandi]

Ha! Which one of us called in?

That's what I though too! Also on a few of the questions asked tonight seemed like it was one of us. I loved it!!:dance:

 

[Firefly]

Seems to me, according to map-quest, they'd both arrive in San Antonio within about 30 minutes of each other, weather permitting
(EDIT - Thank you danni for the actual mileage and time, i had exited Mapquest already and was trying to remember)

I think this whole thing was set up by the Smith's. I think they know who has the baby, and that it's a family member or friend in Nashville or near there. I think that EJ might not actually have any idea who has the baby, aside from the hand off to an unknown (to her) person. It makes perfect sense to set up someone from Nashville to meet someone from Tempe... in San Antonio.

I also agree with an above poster that EJ might very well be singing like crazy, and it would make perfect sense for LE to claim that she isn't saying anything.

BBM, that was what I was thinking the minute they gave the name of the park she made the hand off of the baby. They are so deep in it.

 

[Dear Prudence]

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/s...issing-Tempe-baby/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx

Not sure if this has been posted or not. The video has EJ's neighbors talking about her violent behavior.

 

[iluvmua]

Has there been any sighting of EJ in Victoria, TX?

I think there is a very real possibility that Gabe may no longer be alive.

 

[time]

IF she had any love for Gabriel, she would've stayed on her meds for postpartum. (This is all my opinion) Being that she went through foster care herself, she should have wanted a better life for Gabriel. She didn't. All this blabbering about this is her way of giving Gabriel a better life is complete BS in my mind. She is selfish, doesn't care about anyone but herself. Her own grandfather said she is not the type to be a mother.

I feel like the truth is somewhere in the middle. Elizabeth probably didn't want the baby and so on, she should have made different choices. However, in cases like hers, I think it is like walking on a fence. Given her background and being on meds and her temper/character/whatever, then getting pregnant she could tip either way given her support system. I get the feeling Logan tried to support her but there were a lot of other influences around. Trying to be supportive as one person is different than if you have a much greater support system, resources, family and lack of nonsupportive friends. Logan was probably stretched thin himself dealing with her and trying to support the three of them.

I'm really curious about how much influence and of what kind the Smith's had on her. Were they constantly working on her? Did they put her in contact with others? Encouraging her to think certain ways. Feeding her disdain for the baby's father? Encouraging lies? Offering freedom, money, and a way out? Maybe Elizabeth knew she wasn't good for Gabriel (doesn't excuse not giving him to Logan and walking away or taking out her cruelty on him), and the Smith's worked on her to think she WAS being a good person by doing this AND it was a way to hurt Logan. You feed enough stuff to and manipulate a person that's vulnerable and your likely to get a different outcome. I think they know this.