AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #3

[passionflower]

4 states are now involved..........and EJ and the Smith's think they will get away with what they have done? NOT!!!

 

[CCup]

All this underground adoption ring stuff just keeps making me think "Lifetime Movie."

 

[Taminator]

These people (the Smiths) are crazy, IMHO. Who in their right mind has a smile on their face when a little innocent baby is missing? They claim they love this child (and as we know, their love "don't come easy"), but everything about their body language and in their voices are the complete opposite of worry. Just because you can't adopt this baby, doesn't automatically shut off the fountain of love and desperation and worry. They are involved, that's my opinion. If they aren't, then they are seriously in need of some help. Maybe their love "don't come easy", but shutting off that love seems to come easy. Either way, I'm disgusted by these people.

 

[Taminator]

All this underground adoption ring stuff just keeps making me think "Lifetime Movie."

OMG, I was thinking the same thing yesterday!! Wasn't there some Lifetime "based on a true story" movie with Mary Tyler Moore as some blackmarket baby madam?

 

[Prof]

Whether or not a man is on a childs birth certificate, they have legal rights to contest an adoption. In order for a child to be released to adoption the parents must give up their parental rights. If the father is unknown, then there must be a reasonable search for him. Otherwise a couple can go ahead an adopt a child and the birth father can show un, even years later, and contest the adoption and possibly get custody of the child.

Yes, and just to be clear I was simply answering a poster's question along another thread of thought ---explaininiig why I was under the assumption that LM is on the BC

Thank you, as your point IMO highlights the hope for the bio father of JS and TS adopted daughter though, if in fact they took her from TN to AZ to be able to adopt her (as bio father claims)!

 

[BeanE]

The Smiths are putting themselves out there so much and feeding the media their shifting stories, that we all start forgetting that EJ was probably not focused at all on finding a good home for Gabriel but was most likely focused on controlling and punishing Logan. Yes, she used the Smiths (and Gabriel) to manipulate Logan and probably took their money to finance her kidnapping, but when Logan didn't sign the papers when the Smiths relayed the threat to him, I think EJ decided to punish him in the worst way she could think of.

I hope I'm wrong, though, and this is the rare case that I have some hope for a good outcome. But I just don't see EJ going to all this trouble to make sure Gabriel is safe, since she showed so little maternal instincts towards him before.

BBM

Exactly. Eliz had/has no feeling whatever for Gabriel. Her raw interview is completely devoid of any concern for him whatever, and her previous actions show neither concern nor regard for him. He's an object to her to be used as a pawn, a weapon, against Logan.

 

[not_my_kids]

Who Must Consent to an Adoption
Citation: Rev. Stat. § 8-106(A), (C)
The court shall not grant an adoption of a child unless consent to adopt has been obtained and filed with the court from the following:
The birth or adoptive mother
The father, if he:
Was married to the mother at the time of conception
Is the adoptive father
Has otherwise established paternity
Any guardian of the child or agency that has been given the child to place for adoption.
http://laws.adoption.com/statutes/arizona-laws,3.html

How Consent Must Be Executed
Citation: Rev. Stat. § 8-107(A)
All consents to adoption shall be in writing and signed by the person giving the consent and witnessed by 2 or more credible witnesses who are at least age 18 and who subscribe their names in the presence of the person giving the consent or shall be acknowledged by the person giving consent before a notary public.

The consent shall designate either of the following:

An agency or the division as authorized by the party giving the consent to place the child for adoption
The particular person or persons authorized to adopt the child by the person giving the consent
A consent other than to any agency or the division that does not designate a particular person or persons, or that purports to permit a third person to locate or nominate an adoptive parent, is invalid.
http://laws.adoption.com/statutes/arizona-laws,3.html

Required Information
Rev. Stat. § 8-106.01(B)

The notice of a claim of paternity may be filed before the birth of the child but shall be filed within 30 days after the birth of the child. The notice of a claim of paternity shall be signed by the putative father and shall include his name and address, the name and last known address of the birth mother, and either the birth date of the child or the probable month and year of the expected birth of the child. The putative father who files a notice of a claim of paternity under this section shall notify the Registrar of Vital Statistics of any change of his address.
http://laws.adoption.com/statutes/arizona-laws,5.html

Use of Intermediaries/Facilitators
Citation: Rev. Stat. §§ 8-130; 8-114; 8-134

Except as provided below, a person shall not do any of the following unless the person is employed or engaged by and acting on behalf of a licensed adoption agency:
Solicit or accept employment or engagement, for compensation, by or on behalf of a parent or guardian for assistance in the placement of a child for adoption.
Solicit or accept employment or engagement, for compensation, by or on behalf of any person to locate or obtain a child for adoption.
An attorney licensed to practice law in this State may assist and participate in direct placement adoptions and may receive compensation to the extent the court finds reasonable if the person granting consent to the adoption has chosen a specific adopting parent without prior involvement of the attorney or if the choice is made only from among persons currently certified by the court as acceptable to adopt children.
An attorney may be paid for the attorney's services in connection with the adoption only the amount the court approves as being reasonable and necessary.
http://laws.adoption.com/statutes/arizona-laws,8.html

Pertinent or may become pertinent AZ adoption statues. For reference.

 

[Kamille]

I can understand why the FBI didn't want that Nashville connection to get out there. I have to believe that JM and her partner LV are in this up to their eyeballs. IMO The only way to find Gabriel is to figure out what those two have been up to in the past 6 weeks. I'm sure they would have preferred to do it without either of them being the wiser.

Here is a site from 2009 that lists both of them at different locations of "The Adoption Place". Note that JM is now listed as Nashville.

They were either partners or LV was the owner of the Antioch location/house.

http://www.onetruegift.com/home-study-providers/tn

 

[burbqueen]

I guess "few and far between" is relative. We have adopted two Caucasian infants, both at birth, in the last 5 years. For both adoptions we were only on the waiting list for 1 month before we were chosen to parent. (I realize that our waits were shorter than the average, though.) I know a lot of people that have successfully adopted (Caucasian infants) domestically in the last 5 years. I put off adopting for so long because I was operating under the misconception that it was almost impossible to adopt any infant in the US, much less a Caucasian infant. We were open to any ethnicity, but it just so happened that we were chosen to parent CC infants both times.

I agree totally. I know in Texas there are plenty of Caucasian children in foster care and in the private adoption sector. Same for Iowa and Utah. These women and their motivation just baffles me. I just don't get the whole falling on the sword mentality for unfit mothers or parents. I know there are people with fertility issues who can't have kids but since ts has natural kids why the drive to adopt?

It reminds me of the stories of the old orphanages in th 40's and 50's where they would steal kids and sell them to the rich. Joan crowfard got her adopted kids that way. The wrestler Rick flair was also a blackmarket baby.

 

[Reiyn]

I have to say I saw only bits and piece of the 5 pm and 7 pm feed of NG and now I am finally watching it now at 10. If anyone has been pulling out their hair out of frustration.....I am half bald with you now!!!!

argghghghg!!! That TS!!! Is Logan on her Facebook to have actually had the chance to see that note about praying for EJ and the baby. Man, she sure fumbled around when confronted with that "underground" comment. I don't think she knew she was going to be confronted with this FB post. What she said in reply is gibberish. I need to go back and review her EXACT words.

No, Logan is not on her Facebook and he made his recently I believe late December but cannot be for certain as I don't remember exactly. I'm from Scottsdale, AZ. He's a friend of mine and I just have to say... if he knew about everyone on here trying so hard to figure out this terrible situation he would really appreciate it, as do I. He deserves Gabriel back and I hope this will happen as soon as possible. And just for the record... I do not trust the Smiths as you all have said, there is certainly something fishy going on with them and this entire situation.

 

[dreamweaver]

I do a lot of work with our underground railroad system, but it is not illegal. It is condoned by the prosecutor's office. Yes, we help woman take children away from their fathers, we help provide new identities and help with cash, food, shelter, clothes, transport, counseling. It is legal, and yet, by its very nature, it is underground. These are men with past documented history of abuse, however. Not the "he came home from the bar once and hit me" abuse. Real, she will die if her abuser finds her abuse.
For TPS to insinuate that this "group" was a part of that network is making me sick. Does it exist, yes. Do people like EJ have the required proofs and documents to get into that network, no. In a nutshell, if there was a network, it was a brokering network, not a safe haven/escape network.

I worked in social services for years. I know that in some cases, as pointed out in above post, people are helped to leave the state and set up
someplace new.
It is considered crucial for that person to live and for the children to live as well.
But I agree, EJ did not have the proof to be able to do that.

 

[A_Closer_Look]

No, Logan is not on her Facebook and he made his recently I believe late December but cannot be for certain as I don't remember exactly. I'm from Scottsdale, AZ. He's a friend of mine and I just have to say... if he knew about everyone on here trying so hard to figure out this terrible situation he would really appreciate it, as do I. He deserves Gabriel back and I hope this will happen as soon as possible. And just for the record... I do not trust the Smiths as you all have said, there is certainly something fishy going on with them and this entire situation.

:Welcome-12-june:

I could not even imagine how hard this has been for Logan. Hopefully the police have some key info up their sleeves and will be delivering Gabriel to Logan soon raying:

 

[pghbrandi]

Welcome Reiyn!

I am sure he is sick with worry about Gabriel.

 

[Baznme]

No, Logan is not on her Facebook and he made his recently I believe late December but cannot be for certain as I don't remember exactly. I'm from Scottsdale, AZ. He's a friend of mine and I just have to say... if he knew about everyone on here trying so hard to figure out this terrible situation he would really appreciate it, as do I. He deserves Gabriel back and I hope this will happen as soon as possible. And just for the record... I do not trust the Smiths as you all have said, there is certainly something fishy going on with them and this entire situation.

They both do a lot of "double talking". First saw it with the CA case, now with this one. These people are not being honest but I have no doubt LE will be breaking this wide open very shortly. Maybe we'll find a few other kids in the process. Logan needs this baby back. We can all see his heart is broken and the only thing I want to see at this point is him holding that baby in his arms with the hug they both need so desperately.

 

[burbqueen]

Hi reiyn!!!! Welcome.

We here at websleuths want to see Gabriel safe and sound. This whole situation is just crazy. Elizabeth needs to talk. How could anyone be so spiteful???

I am glad to see Logan stepped up and did the right thing by trying to be a father. Many many men would have cared even a tenth as much as Logan. Also, speaking as a former wild child myself, it is good to see has gotten his life together. I'm just so sorry he is going thru this.

The smiths are shady in my opinion. The tone of the interviews seem kinda off and their defense of Elizabeth is nuts to me. They know more. I don't think Elizabeth randomly went to Texas. Someone sent her there.

 

[Prof]

Something I want to point out. In the very first phone interview that Tammi did with that news station, she stated that Eliz did not know about the custody hearing on Dec 28, that that's why Eliz didn't show for it, and I believe she said that if Eliz had known she'd definitely have been there.

Now (as of yesterday) Tammi is saying that not only did Eliz know, but that she (Tammi) knew, and that she (Tammi) had two people call Eliz and tell her, along with telling her herself, that she (Eliz) should go to the custody hearing.

The truth and Ms. Tammi are strangers... but, like I said, it appears that she is starting to come clean. Likely at the urging of LE with some words about obstructing investigation/justice charges.

I loved your other post and your term "fact nuggets" -- one really needs to sort through alot of wasted words to excavate the fact nuggets in TS BS that's for sure (ironic when we think of her profession)

IMO the lies ARE a case of obstructing justice

The lie you mention above is a big one in a long line of lies that seem to me indicative of some type of "help" she has provided EJ that did not have the welfare of Gabe, LM, or EJ at the forefront of intention

I am not willing to give this conniving, self serving and opportunistic woman an inch of innocence in this case

If in fact they did not aid and abet directly, they at least have obstructed justice IMO

If they had contacted LE when they knew EJ had thought of or was attempting to go against the law, LE might have been able to catch her before Gabe disappeared -- LE had already been involved with Gabe earlier in December --did not the Smiths have some type of temporary custodial paperwork that police saw? Instead of making the phone call to their friend at the "Adoption Place" to "talk EJ into returning", and if they knew of the pending court date, why not give LE a call to help EJ return for the court date?


Do we know when the Smiths first got involved with LE after EJ and the baby were last seen? and did LE initiate contact or did the Smiths?

 

[sadnpod]

Welcome Reiyn!!!

I too am hoping and praying that father and son are reunited SOON!

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

I'm sure this has probably been said during the discussion while NG was on....but, I'm STILL chuckling over here....

First off...the Smiths WANTED to believe all EJ's garbage because they just HAD to have that child...it's almost like they were stalking her....and trying to CONVINCE her she couldn't/shouldn't keep the baby. It seems kinda weird with that whole "crying in the airport"..."crying in the park" nonsense....and people just come up and say "we'll adopt your beautiful baby" because the mom is upset at the moment???
EJ put up the whole "I'm a battered woman" routine to the Smiths...she's nothing more than a spoiled little drama queen who thinks she can do anything on a "whim"....hmmm....AND she said in her interview, she didn't think she did anything wrong!!
The Smiths mentioned something to the effect that they had no idea that she had been neglecting Gabriel or anything was wrong, they said they "checked", and he was "up to date on his shots", so they thought all was well...WTF??? My dogs are "up to date on their shots", too!!
I don't trust TPS even as far as I can throw her. She just has an answer for EVERYTHING and she beat feet to delete her posts on all the sites she had posted.

OK...here's the "chuckle" part...the above was more of a rant....

What got me the most, was how TPS was back peddling about the "underground" network...and said EJ used THAT word....then, the BEST part was when TPS said that even when EJ got to Florida, THAT'S the "type of place" she went to (alluding to a place for poor young moms). The place WAS a PARTY HOUSE!! With Happy Hour and bus rides to the SoBe clubs....LOL
I'm praying over here that this whole fiasco has LE looking really long and hard into these "baby brokers"....they obviously aren't novices at this stuff. GRRRRRR!!

 

[Courtney1981]

Tammi's current status--Sounds like a threat to me!
I just copied and paste from my wall---

Tammi Peters Smith
Foolishness is like a loud woman. She does not have wisdom or knowledge. Proverbs 9:13.....When we do a 2 hour interview with each News Station and they take a 30 second snippet and cut and paste it where "they" want, that's for their ratings! But they can't put Gabriel on TV unless they have new news about him, so Just be mind full of that and think wisely, God Bless....
5 minutes ago · Comment · Like

BTW i am seriously biting my tongue right now! I SOOOOO want to post a comment under her status!!! But I will be a good girl

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Tammi's current status--Sounds like a threat to me!
I just copied and paste from my wall---

Tammi Peters Smith
Foolishness is like a loud woman. She does not have wisdom or knowledge. Proverbs 9:13.....When we do a 2 hour interview with each News Station and they take a 30 second snippet and cut and paste it where "they" want, that's for their ratings! But they can't put Gabriel on TV unless they have new news about him, so Just be mind full of that and think wisely, God Bless....
5 minutes ago · Comment · Like

BTW i am seriously biting my tongue right now! I SOOOOO want to post a comment under her status!!! But I will be a good girl

I can almost guarantee she's reading on here....Hi, Tammi !! :loser: