AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #6

[jamiect]

No offense, jamiect, but NG rarely has "breaking news!" that's actually "breaking news!". Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the lady, but she seems to be at least one step behind what we discuss here.

I truly, truly hope LE does have evidence little Gabe is alive and well. They are tight lipped, though, so don't know for sure. I hope he gets to go home to his daddy soon!!!

I share your opinion...just passing new info along.:innocent:

 

[time]

I just thought of this as another possibility of why Logan isn't talking.
Maybe he is keeping quiet for fear that if it got back to EJ that he was out there talking to media and whoever, she would get even more mad and that would just add fuel to her hatred towards him and give her more reason to keep quiet.

Well, also, depending on who has Gabriel, him talking might just bring out more stories about his background and hatred toward him. I Honestly think him talking could just put the focus on the relationship he and Elizabeth had and so forth - like people could demonize him as being a bad father for taking her back after the Aug/Sept incident last year), Basically, I think him not being in the news keeps the focus off all that which is not where the focus needs to be right now. He has given enough interviews to tell the specifics that we need to know. Anyone who is behind Tammi and against Logan really doesn't have a leg to stand on as far as claiming her isn't looking as they are not and have not been looking. They have not organized anything even though we are supposed to believe they were better parents for Gabriel than his own father. The more TammiJack talks, the more they are sinking their own boat also - I think LE/FBI knew this from the very beginning. I doubt Logan wanted to draw attention to the fact his father is in LE either - anyone wonder if now TammiJack are going - OOPS!

 

[momtective]

I believe this is new:

Nancy Grace
Breaking News! Police announce they believe missing 8-month-old infant Gabriel is alive! As investigators continue to follow leads in the desperate nationwide search for baby Gabriel, are new tips leading cops closer to the missing baby boy’s whereabouts? Nancy Grace has the latest!

ETA- to add link
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/nancy.grace/

Good Ol' Nancy, always a day late and a dollar short. I haven't seen a true bombshell in over a year. matter of fact I can't remember the last true bombshell on her show.

 

[des01]

EJ sent LM the text message after the court date she missed right? (sorry, all this speed reading to catch up with you guys has left my head spinning! lol) anyways the reason I ask is because maybe, (and no offense to LM) maybe he sent her a text first saying something like " hey you messed up now, missed the court date now I have full custody" and that made her so angry that she sent the horrible text back to him to get back at him knowing that she had already handed him off to someone or "gave him up for adoption" and that screwed her plans up...and (if ts is involved) that screwed up TS plans and thats why we are now getting the media circus because she is trying to backpedal her way out. Sorry if that was hard to follow..all moo of course! Just still hoping and praying that Gabriel is safe somewhere and found soon!

 

[time]

I share your opinion...just passing new info along.:innocent:

There may be some news coming out if Elizabeth has actually spoken to a lawyer - I wish she had been hooked up a long time ago and still cannot understand that. I think those on NG last night commenting could be right about all that.

 

[Searchfortruth]

He might know something more than the rest of us. Maybe they told him not to talk so TS and JS keep talking and implicate themselves somehow.

I also think that LE advised him to keep his comments short to preserve the integrity of the case and future trial. He probably has lots to say, but it would be better saved for Elizabeth's trial.

 

[A_Closer_Look]

Well, this isn't going to win me any votes for sleuther of the year, and I am ok with that

I do not think that Elizabeth had any reason, in her mind, to talk before getting a lawyer yesterday. To us, baby Gabe is missing and possibly in danger, but to these folks he is not at all in danger. There is no urgency at all in EJ's mind. She may not be street smart (or she might be, and it's just clouded with issues), but she's academically smart, as we have seen by her GPA. She knows enough not to talk until she has representation. I truly believe that.

I see it this way. Either EJ murdered the baby or she handed him off to someone she did, or didn't, know. In any of those situations, he's not in immediate danger in her mind, and hasn't been anytime since this case broke in the news. So as we sit here in a rush to find Gabriel, she sits there knowing exactly what happened, and in her mind sitting in jail outweighs either admitting that she killed him, or seeing Logan get him.

Now, I'd be 50/50 or even leaning towards she killed Gabe, if it weren't for a certain couple who is also involved in this story. The Smiths are SCREAMING to me that they know that Gabriel is alive somewhere. They may or may not know where, and I have a very strong hunch on this as well, but I won't get into that. Regardless, everything that they project tells me that they are not worried about Gabriel being in immediate danger, and the only way that I know of to arrive at that peace of mind, as a parent myself, is if I know that my child is ok in that moment, for 100% certainty. I know he is not their child, but they are close to this investigation, and not too long ago they thought he would be theirs soon.

So, if everyone that I think is involved, is indeed involved on some level, and that would mean that they would all know either A) where Gabriel is, or B) that he went through some channel to arrive somewhere that they feel is a better place for him, and if the only person in Jail feels like that outweighs the alternatives right now, then why would anyone sing?

I think that now that EJ has herself some representation, somebody who she knows is more privy to the law than she is, she will begin to tell the tale. And I think that if we don't hear this tale directly, we will certainly see it unfold before us as the police suddenly have more information to lead them to the bringing home of Gabriel, alive and well, to his father.

I know that this same situation, as far as what we see from EJ right now, could mean the worst... but it's the addition of the Smith's (not JUST them, but the addition of them to the bigger picture) to that puzzle piece that leads me to believe that we are looking at a situation where nobody is doing what we think they should be doing, because they all know something that we don't. And regardless of what you, me or anyone thinks of the Smith's media ho'ing, I think they'd be handling this a whole lot differently if they thought for a split second that Gabriel was in any danger.

That and my soul can't take another baby murdered at the hands of somebody who should be protecting him with his or her life.

I am hopeful, yes. But I am also leaning heavily toward a living baby Gabriel being found, due to everything that I have observed so far.

 

[time]

I also think that LE advised him to keep his comments short to preserve the integrity of the case and future trial. He probably has lots to say, but it would be better saved for Elizabeth's trial.

That's probably the best answer - thanks

 

[A_Closer_Look]

I also think that LE advised him to keep his comments short to preserve the integrity of the case and future trial. He probably has lots to say, but it would be better saved for Elizabeth's trial.

I agree. And I would think that a big part of LE recommending that LM stay fairly quiet would be that no matter what EJ did with Gabriel, she likely did it in part (from what we know) to hurt LM, and that the less emotion that he shows publicly, the less it will fuel her to stay silent.

She doesn't need anything adding to her theory that jail is "worth it," imo

 

[jamiect]

Good Ol' Nancy, always a day late and a dollar short. I haven't seen a true bombshell in over a year. matter of fact I can't remember the last true bombshell on her show.

LOL, We would probably have to go back to the days when Leonard P was a regular guest.

 

[time]

I agree. And I would think that a big part of LE recommending that LM stay fairly quiet would be that no matter what EJ did with Gabriel, she likely did it in part (from what we know) to hurt LM, and that the less emotion that he shows publicly, the less it will fuel her to stay silent.

She doesn't need anything adding to her theory that jail is "worth it," imo

I'm in the minority here I know, but I'm not so sure about the "jail's worth it" theory. I am thinking more and more that Elizabeth has been waiting to get an attorney (so jail is worth it for now, but not as a way to keep getting back at Logan or making sure he can't have Gabriel - she may sincerely not know exactly who she gave him to or where he is, but has valuable information to track all that down). I'm not going to speculate on whether she is just that smart, had been coached before taking off on that, does not trust authority, or whatever. Could be all of those also. I'm also suspecting she was unprepared for what has transpired since they found her - who knows, maybe she was under the impression she wouldn't have been arrested even if they tracked her down, hence, the myspace login on Dec 19th or 30th. Or maybe if she really didn't kill Gabriel she thought this was just a custody dispute or some minor offense. Again, I could speculate on why, but there are good reasons and some clues this could have been the case.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I do not think that Elizabeth had any reason, in her mind, to talk before getting a lawyer yesterday. To us, baby Gabe is missing and possibly in danger, but to these folks he is not at all in danger. There is no urgency at all in EJ's mind. She may not be street smart (or she might be, and it's just clouded with issues), but she's academically smart, as we have seen by her GPA. She knows enough not to talk until she has representation. I truly believe that.

Now, I'd be 50/50 or even leaning towards she killed Gabe, if it weren't for a certain couple who is also involved in this story. The Smiths are SCREAMING to me that they know that Gabriel is alive somewhere. They may or may not know where, and I have a very strong hunch on this as well, but I won't get into that. Regardless, everything that they project tells me that they are not worried about Gabriel being in immediate danger, and the only way that I know of to arrive at that peace of mind, as a parent myself, is if I know that my child is ok in that moment, for 100% certainty. I know he is not their child, but they are close to this investigation, and not too long ago they thought he would be theirs soon.

Snipped for space:

RED -- That makes complete sense and I hope, hope, hope it is true!

BLUE -- I, personally, do not listen to anything the S's have to say. I would only hold what they say as credible if they can help LE find Gabriel. I just don't think they even knew EJ. If what they say is true, besides the "meeting at the airport" story, they'd only known her for about a week. All they know about her is the act she put on and the lies she told them. For them to say they don't think EJ could've hurt the baby means nothing. They have NO idea who she is and what she's capable of. Them being so adamant he is alive tells me two things:

1. he is and they know where he is, in which they should be ashamed of themselves for putting the families through this and should be prosecuted or

2. They feel the need to declare EJ's innocence because if she did something to harm Gabe, they know they could be prosecuted because they had a hand in hinding her and allowing her the means to run.

 

[A_Closer_Look]

I'm in the minority here I know, but I'm not so sure about the "jail's worth it" theory. I am thinking more and more that Elizabeth has been waiting to get an attorney (so jail is worth it for now, but not as a way to keep getting back at Logan or making sure he can't have Gabriel - she may sincerely not know exactly who she gave him to or where he is, but has valuable information to track all that down). I'm not going to speculate on whether she is just that smart, had been coached before taking off on that, does not trust authority, or whatever. Could be all of those also. I'm also suspecting she was unprepared for what has transpired since they found her - who knows, maybe she was under the impression she wouldn't have been arrested even if they tracked her down, hence, the myspace login on Dec 19th or 30th. Or maybe if she really didn't kill Gabriel she thought this was just a custody dispute or some minor offense. Again, I could speculate on why, but there are good reasons and some clues this could have been the case.

I agree with you. By "worth it" I mean until she has someone explain to her how big this really is and what it means for her future. And by "smart" I mean that I think that I think she is smart enough to not talk without a lawyer, but likely does (or at least did) NOT understand just how much trouble she is really in, until a lawyer showed up.

 

[momtective]

http://www.kpho.com/news/22213153/detail.html

Whether Johnson researched Tammi and Jack Smith as potential adoptive parents for her son Gabriel is unclear, but knowing their histories, she probably couldn't have picked a better couple in which to spin her tale of woe.

Tammi Smith said her former husband abused her and after several years of fighting, she lost custody of her three daughters. Jack Smith also put up a fight for custody of his granddaughter, H, from her biological father.

The Smiths admitted they saw their own heartbreak in Johnson's tearful blue eyes and believed every word.

"You know what? Maybe we were duped," said Jack Smith on Monday.

He said Johnson claimed her former boyfriend and Gabriel's father, Logan McQueary, abused her and was ruining her life, but CBS 5 News has not been able to uncover a shred of evidence that he was anything other than a hard-working, supportive man.

"He was an upstanding person," said Gabriel Salas, McQueary and Johnson's neighbor. "He was doing everything he could to keep his family together."

Even Johnson's grandfather, Bob Johnson, told CBS 5 News that it wasn't McQueary but Elizabeth Johnson who had volatile tendencies, and was even arrested for trashing the apartment she shared with McQueary.

"Sometimes she just went crazy," McQueary said.

Because of their past, the Smiths said they never questioned Johnson's lies and never involved Gabriel's father in any of the talk about adopting him.

Even when they knew Johnson was on the run, they put her in contact with Janet Morris, an adoption specialist in Nashville, Tenn.

much more at link

 

[A_Closer_Look]

Snipped for space:

RED -- That makes complete sense and I hope, hope, hope it is true!

BLUE -- I, personally, do not listen to anything the S's have to say. I would only hold what they say as credible if they can help LE find Gabriel. I just don't think they even knew EJ. If what they say is true, besides the "meeting at the airport" story, they'd only known her for about a week. All they know about her is the act she put on and the lies she told them. For them to say they don't think EJ could've hurt the baby means nothing. They have NO idea who she is and what she's capable of. Them being so adamant he is alive tells me two things:

1. he is and they know where he is, in which they should be ashamed of themselves for putting the families through this and should be prosecuted or

2. They feel the need to declare EJ's innocence because if she did something to harm Gabe, they know they could be prosecuted because they had a hand in hinding her and allowing her the means to run.

Thanks for replying, I agree on both counts.
I try not to listen to them as well, especially the longer this drags out. I have seen in their faces all along though that they aren't real worried about Gabriel, and I think that they do honestly love him and would be showing much more emotion if they weren't sure that he is ok.

I know that there is a very real chance that I am wrong, and that Gabriel is no longer with us, and this is why I am still here day after day, and researching and looking into as much as I can, but I haven't seen anything so far that leads me to lean towards EJ killing Gabriel, even her stating it (actually, especially her stating it.)

 

[~PrinceSSa~]

http://www.kpho.com/news/22213153/detail.html

Whether Johnson researched Tammi and Jack Smith as potential adoptive parents for her son Gabriel is unclear, but knowing their histories, she probably couldn't have picked a better couple in which to spin her tale of woe.

Tammi Smith said her former husband abused her and after several years of fighting, she lost custody of her three daughters. Jack Smith also put up a fight for custody of his granddaughter, H, from her biological father.

The Smiths admitted they saw their own heartbreak in Johnson's tearful blue eyes and believed every word.

"You know what? Maybe we were duped," said Jack Smith on Monday.

He said Johnson claimed her former boyfriend and Gabriel's father, Logan McQueary, abused her and was ruining her life, but CBS 5 News has not been able to uncover a shred of evidence that he was anything other than a hard-working, supportive man.

"He was an upstanding person," said Gabriel Salas, McQueary and Johnson's neighbor. "He was doing everything he could to keep his family together."

Even Johnson's grandfather, Bob Johnson, told CBS 5 News that it wasn't McQueary but Elizabeth Johnson who had volatile tendencies, and was even arrested for trashing the apartment she shared with McQueary.

"Sometimes she just went crazy," McQueary said.

Because of their past, the Smiths said they never questioned Johnson's lies and never involved Gabriel's father in any of the talk about adopting him.

Even when they knew Johnson was on the run, they put her in contact with Janet Morris, an adoption specialist in Nashville, Tenn.

much more at link

H is his granddaughter? The H that is living with them right now??

 

[YellowSubmarine]

The Smiths said they saw Gabriel as the son they always wanted.

Tammi Smith's Facebook page contains several posts from when Gabriel was in their care.

This bothers me. It is clear by their comments they truly thought of Gabe as officially their own. Now that everything has come to light about them allegedly trying to force LM to sign the adoption papers, they claim they were simply "babysitting". I call BS. They aren't going to post those words over a baby they were babysitting. And I believe H bio-dad, too, especially after hearing the S's pal Janet has shown questionable tactics to basically "steal" babies.

I hope LE has surveillance on these people.

 

[A_Closer_Look]

H is his granddaughter? The H that is living with them right now??

Yes. Jack and Tammi adopted H. H is jack's daughter's biological child.

 

[~PrinceSSa~]

Yes. Jack and Tammi adopted H. H is jack's daughter's biological child.

How weird is that!!!!! :banghead:

 

[time]

H is his granddaughter? The H that is living with them right now??

Yep... evidently they adopted her from Jack's daughter and the biological father is not happy with all that.

I'm not sure but it's also possible Jack's daughter is older than Tammi. That makes sense given his age, but not so much sense that a woman that age would get pregnant and adopt the child out.