AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #6

[W8nC]

Okay, so TW loses my vote of confidence. You guys proved me wrong. But I still don't approve of JS's method of taking his daughter from him. If the guy is that bad, it would not have been difficult to get the daughter away in a more forthright manner.

I have some experience in this, as my ex and I had custody of our oldest grand daughter for a year when she was a toddler. Her parents (my son and DIL) were just TERRIBLE parents at that time, to young and self-involved to be parents, going through a break-up, etc. We got custody, gave her back after a month, then had to get custody again, and kept her that 2nd time for nearly a year, until they had taken parenting classes, established that they were a little more stable, etc. It was a heart wrenching experience, and there are still open wounds in the family because of it.....but the important thing is that my grand daughter is alive. Because of our intervention, she survived their terrible parenting AND they are good parents now....and back together, I might add.

However, we saw no reason to do anything underhanded or behind anyone's back, and we didn't take her out of state and adopt her, ending her parents rights. Also, they had visitation rights while she was in our care. She's 10 now, and has no memories of it, and no one's telling her anything, so not bad-mouthing her Mom & Dad....water under the bridge.

 

[jamiect]

this one ?

Tammi Peters Smith Hope all is well...We love you!!October 25, 2009 at 7:47pm · View Feedback (1)Hide Feedback (1) · See Wall-to-Wall
<name removed but starts with N> I love you guys sooooo much!!!! Please kiss my beautiful little angel and tell her how very much I love her!!!
October 29, 2009 at 9:19pm

Assuming this is the bio-mom,it sounds to me like she is very content with the current situation.

 

[Marigold]

I watched the early morning local news report on this on KPHO. They showed their latest video, about how the Smiths feel duped, etc. Then they showed pictures of EJ's home, how she cleared out Gabriel's room, getting rid of most of his stuff and putting his crib in a storage shed.

They said that the Tempe PD is asking the father not to talk to the press at this time. They also said that Tempe PD is getting an enormous amount of requests for information from the press, so Tempe PD will be holding daily press conferences at 1 p.m. (MST).

I don't have a link to any of this, maybe kpho.com will post the whole story on their site. My impression was/is that EJ had no intention of coming back to AZ with Gabriel. I don't know if that means that she was planning on killing him, or giving him away.

I do have some hope that he is still alive:``Gabriel was in San Antonio. He was there, he was alive, he was well,'' Cmdr. Kim Hale, who is leading Tempe police's investigation, said Monday. ``Elizabeth Johnson left San Antonio without him, that we can confirm. So what happened in San Antonio? Right now, Elizabeth Johnson is the only one who can answer that.''

Found this at article titled, "Police think missing AZ baby is alive"
http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1251531

 

[LadyL]

very good point, In Texas, if you hand your child over to someone, and say yes, you can take him for a visit, they can take off and not give the child back, because you "gave them" the child. Now police can get the child back, but no charges can be pressed.

Case in point, My sister at the E.R. late one night, 4 young kids, trying to fill out paperwork, a lady asked, if she could hold the baby, so my sister could finish the papers. She would sit right there on the chairs. Sister said OK. The woman took off with my Nephew a few month old. Luckily, she ran into the actual E.R. area, and could not get out. Police could not arrest her, because my sister had handed her the baby. and get this, told my sister, "she has done this before!!"

O/T

that's weird that they couldn't charge her with something!

she had permission to hold the baby while sitting in the nearby chairs, not take off into another area with him

wonder if the woman's a professional or what, scoping out overwhelmed single parents? (hmm, that kinda sounds like TFPS)

your sister has the woman's name & address right (from the police report)? she should do some serious sleuthing on that woman ... find out previous charges, see if she's hooked up somehow with any underground figures, everything really

maybe she's just a kook - either way she's dangerous IMO

god forbid that EJ handed her baby off and NOBODY ends up held responsible (aside from her) - they should all rot in prison together

I think it's appalling that the woman who attempted to kidnap your sister's child wasn't charged!

 

[time]

so if thats the case she was 33 when H was born. she would be 38 this year. yea she is older than Daddy's wife!

Thanks

 

[~PrinceSSa~]

TPS writes that she hopes Elizabeth will make a deal now that she has a lawyer. This was stated yesterday at 6:24pm

 

[LadyL]

It might be a stretch, but if Gabe was put on a plane there would not be a need for a carseat?--also if anyone was thinking of covering tracks and leaving behind as much evidence as possible that either could be identified or tie Gabe's whereabouts to another location?

Perhaps the people EJ dealt with in SA were experienced in these types of abductions/adoptions and perhaps they even brought new clothes to take Gabe away in? IDK just pondering in my desperate hope that Gabe is alive

I'm glad you went there - this angle has been weighing on me from the beginning

I think, in general, many are afraid to explore the underground angle because it's an unknown and we can't control the unknown

there's loads of information out there on this and I don't think it's beyond the realms of reality to speculate on this possibility for baby Gabe

here's one such link for those interested:

http://underwatch.blogspot.com/

 

[danni]

I am going to go out on a limb here and I know this is about as far out there as this could get at this point in time after all that we know about Tammi and Jack but hear me out.

If we are to believe that Elizabeth called Tammi on the 18th of December and picked him up telling that he was going to have a visit with Logan and then took off with him without Tammi and Jack knowing it. Ya think she might have done this because she found out what kind of nutballs Tammi and Jack are?
Wonder if she got a better offer from someone else? Tammi was posting on another site looking for a surrogate, they were going to pay 750 a month for 10 months, they would use the surrogates eggs and Jack's sperm, and they wanted the surrogate to have insurance that paid for a surrogate pregnancy. so in other words they wanted off cheap (if you ask me)!

 

[sc2714]

Did some Googling, still don't know what R.S. Process is... although if you look up rs process birth, you see r.s. before a bunch of legal stuff on paternity on some hospital website.

 

[danni]

could be "rights surrendering process"!

 

[~PrinceSSa~]

Hidden post can be viewed via wall-to-wall. Takes a lot of clicking around but none of these posts are on Tammi's wall but moreso a response to others. That statement was written in early january of this year and it sounds to me it's a different Elizabeth. However I'd like to know what R.S. process is <?>
Never heard of it in my medical career.

 

[momtective]

Sorry if I am being dense here, but Elizabeth? How long ago was this post? Have no idea what R S process is. :waitasec:

Is this on Facebook? I am not seeing this. When was it written?

This Elizabeth is Not EJ...it's her niece...I saw pics when they were up and it is not EJ.

 

[Bratlings]

I am going to go out on a limb here and I know this is about as far out there as this could get at this point in time after all that we know about Tammi and Jack but hear me out.

If we are to believe that Elizabeth called Tammi on the 18th of December and picked him up telling that he was going to have a visit with Logan and then took off with him without Tammi and Jack knowing it. Ya think she might have done this because she found out what kind of nutballs Tammi and Jack are?
Wonder if she got a better offer from someone else? Tammi was posting on another site looking for a surrogate, they were going to pay 750 a month for 10 months, they would use the surrogates eggs and Jack's sperm, and they wanted the surrogate to have insurance that paid for a surrogate pregnancy. so in other words they wanted off cheap (if you ask me)!

You are not allowed to profit from a surrogacy. It is the law. The surrogate can legally only accept money for living expenses, and medical I believe. It is common for the surrogate to use her own insurance since insurance of the prospective parent usually will not pay.

 

[time]

Okay, so TW loses my vote of confidence. You guys proved me wrong. But I still don't approve of JS's method of taking his daughter from him. If the guy is that bad, it would not have been difficult to get the daughter away in a more forthright manner.

I have some experience in this, as my ex and I had custody of our oldest grand daughter for a year when she was a toddler. Her parents (my son and DIL) were just TERRIBLE parents at that time, to young and self-involved to be parents, going through a break-up, etc. We got custody, gave her back after a month, then had to get custody again, and kept her that 2nd time for nearly a year, until they had taken parenting classes, established that they were a little more stable, etc. It was a heart wrenching experience, and there are still open wounds in the family because of it.....but the important thing is that my grand daughter is alive. Because of our intervention, she survived their terrible parenting AND they are good parents now....and back together, I might add.

However, we saw no reason to do anything underhanded or behind anyone's back, and we didn't take her out of state and adopt her, ending her parents rights. Also, they had visitation rights while she was in our care. She's 10 now, and has no memories of it, and no one's telling her anything, so not bad-mouthing her Mom & Dad....water under the bridge.

Thank you for relaying your experience and opinion here. I agree, why hinky if all of this was going on and the mom could easily get custody or the father rights taken away. I am very concerned when people are violent, but I also believe in trying to keep children with their parents or parents if possible. Something is missing here also as to whether the father could have gotten help and become a good parent with the child protected for a while until such time. We also don't know all the story - we are seeing one condemning court document. Whether he should have been the father or not, I still want to know how the Smith's were involved, how all this was accomplished, and who else was involved and so forth.

I'm also still not understanding - the birth mother has 3 other children yet she put this one up for adoption? And, the father has a 2 year old in addition?

 

[mum]

Hidden post can be viewed via wall-to-wall. Takes a lot of clicking around but none of these posts are on Tammi's wall but moreso a response to others. That statement was written in early january of this year and it sounds to me it's a different Elizabeth. However I'd like to know what R.S. process is <?>
Never heard of it in my medical career.

When I read that, I was thinking it had something to do with her colonic services and maybe a procedure type thing they do to moms in labor or prior to labor?

 

[jade78]

I was researching baby brokers before this case and just wanted to share something I found.

These low lifes do exist.This one here is out of Oklahoma.

http://www.handstohold.com/opportunities.html

Click situations.

forum advertising babies for sale..

http://www.abcadoptions.com/hotline/index.php?showtopic=207
{same person BTW}


Whole list of babies for sale
http://www.abcadoptions.com/hotline/index.php?showforum=4

Very wrong...

 

[LadyL]

Now, I'd be 50/50 or even leaning towards she killed Gabe, if it weren't for a certain couple who is also involved in this story. The Smiths are SCREAMING to me that they know that Gabriel is alive somewhere. They may or may not know where, and I have a very strong hunch on this as well, but I won't get into that. Regardless, everything that they project tells me that they are not worried about Gabriel being in immediate danger, and the only way that I know of to arrive at that peace of mind, as a parent myself, is if I know that my child is ok in that moment, for 100% certainty. I know he is not their child, but they are close to this investigation, and not too long ago they thought he would be theirs soon.

(respectfully snipped & bolded by me]

please get into it! I'm SOOOO curious

:innocent:

 

[what about this?]

Assuming this is the bio-mom,it sounds to me like she is very content with the current situation.

Yes, it does. So, if she has 3 daughters - 2-year-old with TW, H with the Zippys, then wonder where the other one is? Because reading posts, no mention at all.

 

[LadyL]

I have no suspicion, literally none that Logan has any idea what is going on. Seems the police are handling this the old way with Logan. One presser, one public plea and only a very few talk shows, then go home and wait by the phone. There's no reason to keep pleading for Gabe. If someone has him, they aren't going to bring him forward, as they know he is a stolen baby. If he's dead, pleas for his return are useless if made to anyone but EJ.
It has even been published in the media that LE asked him to stay out of the spotlight. He is not suspicious to me.

plus there was a quote from him somewhere that said he's basically watching the news like everyone else ... can't remember from where or even when but it was posted in one of these threads

I was thinking he might have just a smidgen more confidence in LE than the average parent with a missing child b/c his dad's probably quite involved and Logan knows he can rely on his dad to relay and receive info etc.

just some thoughts ...

 

[STEADFAST]

could be "rights surrendering process"!

I've seen adoption agencies listed under Referral Services. Not sure that makes sense here, but maybe . . .