AZ AZ - Grand Canyon, 'Little Miss X' UP9859, Wht/Hisp Fem, 11-17, nail file case "P" & "R", Oct'58

[doggybag2355]

I am an active researcher for both Connie Smith and Little Miss X cases. My planned podcast was set aside because of a family health issue.

In my almost 60-plus years of researching, collecting, digging, and case sharing into both cold cases, two separate emails resurfaced to open other avenues of clues being investigated.

There is little to report on either yet investigation yet, but I will share when it does. So many Websleuthers have provided ideas, information and support. Hopefully someone may remember an old family story they heard, or saw something that just doesn't fit or stumble upon long stored information, somehow. Share it, no matter how strange or unbelievable they may sound. That is what keeps me looking, they are giant puzzles and we need more eyes, uncommon ideas, “have you thought about…” thinking. Lets throw the ideas onto the wall and see what sticks.
I am open to anything and everything. Let’s do it!

I still think there’s a remote chance that she could have been a victim of the 1956 Grand Canyon mid air collision, as the PMI lines up

 

[Quilty]

I still think there’s a remote chance that she could have been a victim of the 1956 Grand Canyon mid air collision, as the PMI lines up

This is an interesting idea. There was a female listed as a victim of the collision with the last name of Payne. This theory also might suggest that items found near LMX were not necessarily her belongings and could have belonged to a different passenger. It seems that not all remains were accounted for.
Was the location where she was found in an area near the collision or debris field? I have not had much luck finding details…

 

[doggybag2355]

This is an interesting idea. There was a female listed as a victim of the collision with the last name of Payne. This theory also might suggest that items found near LMX were not necessarily her belongings and could have belonged to a different passenger. It seems that not all remains were accounted for.
Was the location where she was found in an area near the collision or debris field? I have not had much luck finding details…

I haven't been able to either. It's a very remote possibility, as the Grand Canyon is over 1000 miles long, but it's just a theory I had.

 

[Quilty]

Is there more specific information available about where she was found? Maybe from contemporary newspaper articles? All I have seen is “approximately 10 miles southeast of the Grand Canyon” and the coordinates on Namus lead to a treed area in Grand Canyon Village. Based on historic aerials from the 1950s, this area was developed and it is unlikely anyone would have been unnoticed for long. (I’ve also noticed that coordinates on Namus generally point to the center of a city/town, not real recovery locations but am not sure if that’s always the case…)
The main areas for the crash debris were around Chuar Butte and Temple Butte. From some digging, the estimated is that debris was found within approximately 1.5 square miles of the impact. Grand Canyon Village appears to maybe be 25ish miles from Chuar Butte as the crow flies.

 

[Issa]

This is an interesting idea. There was a female listed as a victim of the collision with the last name of Payne. This theory also might suggest that items found near LMX were not necessarily her belongings and could have belonged to a different passenger. It seems that not all remains were accounted for.
Was the location where she was found in an area near the collision or debris field? I have not had much luck fi remains get into the rural area she was fouand.

I don’t think that is possible, Little Miss X remains was discovered October 1958 on Skinner Ridge Road, ten miles south of the double crash site. The TWA Super Constellation plunged and crashed 300 feet above the Colorado River on a relativity flat area called Temple Butte.

The second plane, United DC-7 slammed a mile north just below the top of a formation named Chuar Butte, 1400 feet above the CO river on a near vertical slope and slid into a rugged gulch.

13 mountain climbers, five from CO and eight from Switzerland took four days to remove 66 victims for burial in the Citizens Cemetery in Flagstaff.

Ten days later 58 victims from United DC -7 were laid to reat in a marked grave in the Grand Caynon Pioneer Cemetery on the south. At the time the remains could not be identified.

I do not believe the remains of LMX came from either plane crash.

Her boyfriends car, a 1950-51 Dodge Clipper, White with twin exhaust and loud muffler, was found abandoned in Williams, AZ. Donnis Redman and Michael Griffins were last seen in San Pedro, CA March 1, 1958 before heading for Las Vegas to supposedly get married. Neither have ever been found.

 

[Quilty]

I don’t think that is possible, Little Miss X remains was discovered October 1958 on Skinner Ridge Road, ten miles south of the double crash site.

Thank you for the clarification. I could not find specific details about where she was found.

 

[HmmMysterious]

Plugged in the distance between Williams, Arizona and Skinner Ridge (I hope I got it correct).

After looking at the map, it seems possible to me that this girl is Donnis "Pinky" Redman.

 

[doggybag2355]

I don’t think that is possible, Little Miss X remains was discovered October 1958 on Skinner Ridge Road, ten miles south of the double crash site. The TWA Super Constellation plunged and crashed 300 feet above the Colorado River on a relativity flat area called Temple Butte.

The second plane, United DC-7 slammed a mile north just below the top of a formation named Chuar Butte, 1400 feet above the CO river on a near vertical slope and slid into a rugged gulch.

13 mountain climbers, five from CO and eight from Switzerland took four days to remove 66 victims for burial in the Citizens Cemetery in Flagstaff.

Ten days later 58 victims from United DC -7 were laid to reat in a marked grave in the Grand Caynon Pioneer Cemetery on the south. At the time the remains could not be identified.

I do not believe the remains of LMX came from either plane crash.

Her boyfriends car, a 1950-51 Dodge Clipper, White with twin exhaust and loud muffler, was found abandoned in Williams, AZ. Donnis Redman and Michael Griffins were last seen in San Pedro, CA March 1, 1958 before heading for Las Vegas to supposedly get married. Neither have ever been found.

That makes sense, I just had never had any good idea about how close the locations were

 

[Issa]

Connie Smith is well known as a possible match for "Little Miss X"

No, I don't believe so. We may have information on Connie’s case that, while circumstantial, may bring some answers.

Where would Connie have been held for seven years? From Connecticut to Arizona, going where?

But I say, “Never stop thinking out of the box, anything is possible.”

 

[snooptroop88]

Rather bizarrely, I have to say, I'm seeing some weird parallels between Little Miss X and Beverly Rose Potts, who according to some sources was nicknamed Rosebud by her mother and grandmother. Beverly Rose Potts:

Look how different this girl looks from image to image. & here's Little Miss X:

And I won't include all the images available but they're available, and she also seems to have different "looks," and I don't know that this is artist interpretation, it may weirdly be in line with reality to some degree.

One problem with this comparison is hair color. Little Miss X had brown hair, and Beverly is listed as having blonde hair. Beverly's hair was cut fairly short when she was abducted in 1951, I believe. Projected the Doe wouldn't have been murdered until 1957 at the earliest. if she's Little Miss X. The hair color can naturally change in blondies at such an age, I've seen it happen. Moreover, if she disappeared in 1951 and wasn't killed until 1957, someone was almost certainly trying to conceal her identity to the extent possible, and you're looking at six years of hair growth (and hair dye) in that time. And finally, Beverly's hair must have been an incredibly dark blonde for it to photograph as it does, some would probably label it brown (myself included). And this is Little Miss X's hair, right?

Seeing her hair like this reminds me of the story of how Beverly's mother retained her daughter's long pigtails after Beverly insisted on having it cut short. And I believe that was done shortly before she was taken. Also wondered about height. Little Miss X is 5'3". I know Beverly was tall for 10 at 4'11". But I'm seeing that the projections for adult height are all over the place, it's impossible to accurately predict, just a multitude of factors involved. We don't know what her diet would have been like in the hypothetical abduction period. And there's always a chance I would think Little Miss X was left out there before 1957, time of death is a projection.

If this is Beverly, who would abduct her and keep her for that many years, and then kill her? Person's clearly deranged, predator, may have had some familiarity with the family, some axe to grind with one or more of the family members. The axe to grind may have had no rational basis or reality behind it. But I also think it would be possible this was someone completely unknown who somehow managed to strike up a conversation with her. Either way, it's someone who could easily disappear from that entire area and go elsewhere with a young girl without drawing too much attention. If Little Miss X were Beverly, the abductor had to be someone who traveled pretty extensively, Little Miss X is found near the Grand Canyon, and Beverly disappeared from Cleveland. She was at a festival of artists, and they travel. Not saying it was an artist, not saying carnival, but wouldn't rule these out. Also, he may have threatened Beverly once he had her in his grasp, and told her he'd do something in terms of her family members if she refused to comply.

I know it is far-fetched. But I'd completely given up on finding anyone to match Little Miss X after seeing Donnis Redman and Mary Margaret Begay ruled out. And there's nothing, nobody with this "P" and "R," not that I saw listed. And I thought Beverly didn't have it either, her initials would be BRP. But thinking of the hair and the nail file. The way Little Miss X had her hair reminded me of Beverly's pigtail story. Maybe if it was Beverly, it would remind her, too. & if she was abducted and traveling, she probably couldn't put her actual initials on that article because the abductor was concealing her identity. But maybe the "P" really was for the last name, Potts, and the R for Rosebud, or her middle name Rose, and this was a way of connecting to her past.

So again, I know it's far-fetched, but it's times like this when I remind myself never to forget Suzanne Sevakis. Yes, I know these are both really, really old cases. I find it difficult to believe this possibility wasn't explored and dismissed long ago, Little Miss X was found just a handful of years after Beverly went missing. There are dentals for both. I'm probably missing some key factor that would make this whole thing impossible. Again, though, I think of Suzanne Sevakis. I doubt it was common in the 50s to even consider a long-term abduction with a murder of that same victim occurring several years later in a completely different state, pretty much across the country. And just a final note, researching and it appears that with poor diet, damage is done much more quickly to hair than teeth. Along with hair dye involved, it's expected you'd see more damaged hair but less damaged teeth with a longer term abduction. Little Miss X's hair looks perhaps damaged to me, but she had excellent dentals with several fillings, and I see Beverly had fillings as well, and also gaps between her teeth (Since I can't find likenesses for the Doe showing her teeth, I don't know if she had gaps, and would have to check if gaps could have narrowed or closed in this timeframe).

I've got no idea if Beverly is Little Miss X or not, I can see parallels. I definitely wouldn't go so far to say it's "likely." But either way, I would definitely suspect Little Miss X to be a longer term abduction.

RIP.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Rather bizarrely, I have to say, I'm seeing some weird parallels between Little Miss X and Beverly Rose Potts, who according to some sources was nicknamed Rosebud by her mother and grandmother. Beverly Rose Potts:
View attachment 613234View attachment 613235View attachment 613236
Look how different this girl looks from image to image. & here's Little Miss X:

View attachment 613241And I won't include all the images available but they're available, and she also seems to have different "looks," and I don't know that this is artist interpretation, it may weirdly be in line with reality to some degree.

One problem with this comparison is hair color. Little Miss X had brown hair, and Beverly is listed as having blonde hair. Beverly's hair was cut fairly short when she was abducted in 1951, I believe. Projected the Doe wouldn't have been murdered until 1957 at the earliest. if she's Little Miss X. The hair color can naturally change in blondies at such an age, I've seen it happen. Moreover, if she disappeared in 1951 and wasn't killed until 1957, someone was almost certainly trying to conceal her identity to the extent possible, and you're looking at six years of hair growth (and hair dye) in that time. And finally, Beverly's hair must have been an incredibly dark blonde for it to photograph as it does, some would probably label it brown (myself included). And this is Little Miss X's hair, right?
View attachment 613247Seeing her hair like this reminds me of the story of how Beverly's mother retained her daughter's long pigtails after Beverly insisted on having it cut short. And I believe that was done shortly before she was taken. Also wondered about height. Little Miss X is 5'3". I know Beverly was tall for 10 at 4'11". But I'm seeing that the projections for adult height are all over the place, it's impossible to accurately predict, just a multitude of factors involved. We don't know what her diet would have been like in the hypothetical abduction period. And there's always a chance I would think Little Miss X was left out there before 1957, time of death is a projection.

If this is Beverly, who would abduct her and keep her for that many years, and then kill her? Person's clearly deranged, predator, may have had some familiarity with the family, some axe to grind with one or more of the family members. The axe to grind may have had no rational basis or reality behind it. But I also think it would be possible this was someone completely unknown who somehow managed to strike up a conversation with her. Either way, it's someone who could easily disappear from that entire area and go elsewhere with a young girl without drawing too much attention. If Little Miss X were Beverly, the abductor had to be someone who traveled pretty extensively, Little Miss X is found near the Grand Canyon, and Beverly disappeared from Cleveland. She was at a festival of artists, and they travel. Not saying it was an artist, not saying carnival, but wouldn't rule these out. Also, he may have threatened Beverly once he had her in his grasp, and told her he'd do something in terms of her family members if she refused to comply.

I know it is far-fetched. But I'd completely given up on finding anyone to match Little Miss X after seeing Donnis Redman and Mary Margaret Begay ruled out. And there's nothing, nobody with this "P" and "R," not that I saw listed. And I thought Beverly didn't have it either, her initials would be BRP. But thinking of the hair and the nail file. The way Little Miss X had her hair reminded me of Beverly's pigtail story. Maybe if it was Beverly, it would remind her, too. & if she was abducted and traveling, she probably couldn't put her actual initials on that article because the abductor was concealing her identity. But maybe the "P" really was for the last name, Potts, and the R for Rosebud, or her middle name Rose, and this was a way of connecting to her past.

So again, I know it's far-fetched, but it's times like this when I remind myself never to forget Suzanne Sevakis. Yes, I know these are both really, really old cases. I find it difficult to believe this possibility wasn't explored and dismissed long ago, Little Miss X was found just a handful of years after Beverly went missing. There are dentals for both. I'm probably missing some key factor that would make this whole thing impossible. Again, though, I think of Suzanne Sevakis. I doubt it was common in the 50s to even consider a long-term abduction with a murder of that same victim occurring several years later in a completely different state, pretty much across the country. And just a final note, researching and it appears that with poor diet, damage is done much more quickly to hair than teeth. Along with hair dye involved, it's expected you'd see more damaged hair but less damaged teeth with a longer term abduction. Little Miss X's hair looks perhaps damaged to me, but she had excellent dentals with several fillings, and I see Beverly had fillings as well, and also gaps between her teeth (Since I can't find likenesses for the Doe showing her teeth, I don't know if she had gaps, and would have to check if gaps could have narrowed or closed in this timeframe).

I've got no idea if Beverly is Little Miss X or not, I can see parallels. I definitely wouldn't go so far to say it's "likely." But either way, I would definitely suspect Little Miss X to be a longer term abduction.

RIP.

Beverly's dental is available so it might be worth it

162DFOH - Beverly Rose Potts

 

[snooptroop88]

Beverly's dental is available so it might be worth it

162DFOH - Beverly Rose Potts

Trying to think it through. Maybe the hair's extremely damaged from the heat and the desert environment? But it looks just so, so damaged to me. We know she was coloring her hair. Not saying younger girls didn't color their hair in the 50s, but how common would that be? Was she doing some kind of performing? If so, abductor's got a built-in excuse for why this very young girl's coloring her hair.

I just have such a horrible feeling that Little Miss X was living a life with a concealed identity, and for some time.

Is there more specific information available about where she was found? Maybe from contemporary newspaper articles? All I have seen is “approximately 10 miles southeast of the Grand Canyon” and the coordinates on Namus lead to a treed area in Grand Canyon Village. Based on historic aerials from the 1950s, this area was developed and it is unlikely anyone would have been unnoticed for long. (I’ve also noticed that coordinates on Namus generally point to the center of a city/town, not real recovery locations but am not sure if that’s always the case…)
The main areas for the crash debris were around Chuar Butte and Temple Butte. From some digging, the estimated is that debris was found within approximately 1.5 square miles of the impact. Grand Canyon Village appears to maybe be 25ish miles from Chuar Butte as the crow flies.

Seeing that the remains were on a little hillside off a dirt road on Skinner Ridge south of Grand Canyon National Park, desolate. Victim unclothed and "prone," I think this means facing downward, flat on stomach. Clothes didn't fit. How big were these clothes? I'm sure clothes that were just baggy wouldn't have even been noticed in an environment where there's so much hiking. I'd say she couldn't have been hiking because she didn't have the shoes for it but there were no shoes found for her at all(?/is that correct??) White short sleeve cardigan, so it's cooler, if it's summer, she's out at night. It can't be winter based on what's with her, no coat. Otherwise, checking the times of year here, that leaves spring and winter. I'm seeing March & April would have such clothing recommended, also Sept, Oct. The colors she's wearing sound more autumn to me. They thought she was killed at least nine mos prior to Halloween 1958. So theoretically either spring of '58, fall of '57 or spring of '57. I'd think fall of '57, but jmo. Why no shoes? Did he take them, or did scavengers get them? Scavengers took both shoes, with pretty much an entire outfit left at the site?

Trying to figure out "who might go to the GC"-- I mean, really, who might NOT have been at the GC in the 50s? Anyone could be there on vacation. Which is incredibly creepy because it makes you wonder if the killer didn't already know that, and it was part of his plan, that's SK-like. (A note, SK Harvey Glatman, photographer like Alcala, was en route back & forth, Denver to L.A. right, right around 1957-58, that's how I found Little Miss X. Photographers are plentiful at GC.) Fall's around the time kids go back to school. Did he fear he'd be somehow uncovered during a school change or transition? & if her age was 17, she'll soon be legally recognized as an adult. It's going to be increasingly difficult for him to threaten her into compliance. And also coming soon, she may have boyfriends. (But this is also a way he can easily explain away her sudden absence by noting a boyfriend, even if none existed.)

Does anyone know, is it a fact there were no shoes? I don't see the shoes noted anywhere. And just updating, that does appear to be the case-- no shoes.