AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #13

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  • #561
I seemed to have missed something with all this talk about SC lawyering up and the chatter that ensued. ?????

Has it been stated anywhere that SC lawyered up? Or RC? Or is "everyone" just speculating with what THEY would do?
TIA.
 
  • #562
Perhaps it is a simple matter and they found that SC had stepped out for coffee, milk ect. When he returned he found her gone.

I wish, but I doubt it. First of all, with a 14 year old home, this would not be a bad thing for him to do, and there would be no reason to lie about it. I have a 13 year old girl and I leave her in charge of her 10 year old sister for 15 minutes to grab a loaf of bread or gallon of milk from the store right up the road. I don't think Sergio or RC or any parent running to the store for a second with a responsible teen at home is cause for lying or CPS involvement.
 
  • #563
I seemed to have missed something with all this talk about SC lawyering up and the chatter that ensued. ?????

Has it been stated anywhere that SC lawyered up? Or RC? Or is "everyone" just speculating with what THEY would do?
TIA.

No he has not lawyered up yet that any of us are aware of, we are only speculating that he should (or shouldnt according to some.)
 
  • #564
Perhaps it is a simple matter and they found that SC had stepped out for coffee, milk ect. When he returned he found her gone.

If he did that, he wouldn't even be allowed to call the boys?
That doesn't seem likely, JMO...
 
  • #565
Perhaps it is a simple matter and they found that SC had stepped out for coffee, milk ect. When he returned he found her gone.

If he did that, he wouldn't even be allowed to call the boys?
That doesn't seem likely, JMO...

Lisa Irwin's mom admitted to drinking all night, and her boys are with her...
 
  • #566
It is ok, we passionate, artsy and goofy men embrace it.
You are totally cracking me up...

but, actually with DH and I..
HE is the reserved one... And I am the goof!

Go figure! Tee! Hee!
 
  • #567
If he did that, he wouldn't even be allowed to call the boys?
That doesn't seem likely, JMO...

Lisa Irwin's mom admitted to drinking all night, and her boys are with her...

I do agree it has to be something very serious and THREATENING towards the kids for them to deny a parent contact. That said, the question remains is this behavior related directly to her disappearance or the RESULT of pressure and stress BECAUSE OF THE DISAPPEARANCE. That is where some of us are divided.
 
  • #568
Damn Sundevils!


*People in Tucson generally dont like Phoenix much.


Arpaio would not last FIVE MINUTES in office in Tucson. Tucson is much more liberal and a lot less Tea Party than up north, more democrats, artsy and cultural types down this way. We dont do right wing extremism here much.

:what: I live in PHX, and am not right-wing! We have all kinds here, even artsy and cultural types. You all don't like us? I never knew that!
 
  • #569
I am all to familiar that you know what the words mean. I also think LE is capable of explaining the words to the parents if they ask. Usually the questions are pretty simple. Did you harm your chid, do you know who did, do you know where she is? Then they start asking questions about their habits and what they were doing at the time of the crime.

If at this time the parent wants an attorney, then oh well, game over...child will not be found unless someone stumbles on the body.

My daughter is 20 and lives with me. If she disappeared, I might not realize it for as much as 36 hours. I actually thought about this on my way to work the other day. She lives in the basement, we rarely eat meals at the same times, and whenever we are both home, one or more of us is asleep. As impossible as it may sound, we are very close.

The other day I realized that if she ever actually DID drop off the radar, did not answer her phone, or borrow someone's phone to text me, did not post on social media and had no transactions on her First Bank of Daddy Visa for 48 hours I would report her missing.

I sort of "pretend-interrogated myself" and even KNOWING the right words to say, I could not make them come out of my mouth. I thought "if they found her dead", and I was asked if I had anything to do with it (I never ever ever would*) how would I answer? She and I have been through some awful times, but always on the same side, I KNOW the first thing I would blurt out would be "No way in he77! I would never do anything to hurt her."

Statement Analysis would pick that apart. My statement is not a specific denial of the accusation, and I know that every word AFTER "no" weakens the "no", and that saying I "would never" suggests future, and if we are assuming for this exercise that she is known to be dead, of course I "would not" do anything to her), and that "hurt" is minimizing language since she is not HURT, she is DEAD for purposes of this scenario. And "her" is distancing language. I should refer to her by name. I KNOW the correct answer is "No." or "No I did not kill her" (although repeating back the interviewer's words also raises "red flags" in statement analysis).

I caught myself, stopped, repeated the question to myself and answered four or five more times before giving up. I swear, I never could get the words "I did not kill L*****" to come out. She is alive and well at the moment, and yet I can not give a "reliable" denial if asked if I had killed her. I'd be SURE to say the wrong thing under stress.

* which, right there, is an example of what I am trying to get to say. I know that, compared to "no" the word "never" is weak, but the "ever" after it weakens it further. 2 "ever"s and I may as well start thinking about what I want for my last meal. And then there is that future "would" that allows for the possibility that I have harmed her in the past.

HOWEVER... if I was in the position Sergio was as of the post I am quoting (no telling what will happen before anyone sees this) I WOULD NOT hire a criminal defense lawyer. He has not been charged with a crime that I am aware of, I'd think he'd want a family law lawyer to address the custody and visitation issues, and might want to start looking into defense attorneys in case I was about to be charged with something related to Isa's disappearance or some OTHER crime, but don't think I could afford to hire a lawyer until I was charged.

I TOTALLY agree with what PAX said about how easy it is to read things into what someone says, and hope I have illustrated how what sounds to a reasonable person like a strong denial could be seen by another as nearly an outright admission of guilt. But hiring a CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY is just bad for your image until/unless you are named a POI.

I now return you all to your regularly scheduled pistachios and/or Kahlua.
 
  • #570
You are totally cracking me up...

but, actually with DH and I..
HE is the reserved one... And I am the goof!

Go figure! Tee! Hee!

I knew I recognized you from somewhere!

634eb59c9c89ef1e_disney-goofy.gif
 
  • #571
I keep thinking of all kinds of reasons for this CPS involvement, but then I come to the 'no-contact' part and there go all my theories. It's so bad that there can't even be supervised visits?
I am catching up on the thread-but does anyone knows what happens from here? Is SC stuck with no contact until CPS is finished investigating? I wonder how long it will take?
 
  • #572
Okay... I have solved it...
someone in the Celis family household was trying to get onto Websleths..and went berserk trying..
right now that is the only scenario that makes sense to me ! :maddening: :crazy:
 
  • #573
It is where I live ... just a tad north of Santa Fe, NM @ about 8,000 ft. above sea level. Never hot and not that cold and the snow melts fairly quickly.

I pass that area on my way to the San Luis Valley several times a year! Beautiful!
 
  • #574
Parents saying they "know" their child is alive or that they will come home safely is hardly new or surprising...in fact it is often the case. It is nothing more than an abiding hope, or in some cases, when many years have passed, an inability to face the truth. JMO

I hear ya, but there is something about Becky's affect that implies a lack of fear, like when she was asked about Isa, she said, "well I hope she's not in danger.....I hope they are feeding her..." or something to that affect. Her statement didn't seem to register the dire consequences an abducted 6 year old girl would face, like she knows something to the contrary. She didn't say she wondered if Isa's safe, being tortured, afraid, feeling abandoned, etc. She wondered if Isa would be hungry.

There's something so unusual about both her's and Sergio's behavior. It's befuddling to me what's going on with this case! :maddening:
 
  • #575
The liability they would open themselves up to would be insane. Lawsuits from family who are suffering, waiting for Isabel, including Sergio and his family, for example. Second, CPS cannot withhold custody from a parent without a hearing happening within a day or two of being taken into care (and notice to the parents). And if this was a scheme between Becky and LE, Sergio could sue the heck out of both LE and Becky.

But there is no way LE would be a party to such a thing. A missing child is one of the direst emergencies in the public consciousness. To secret away a missing child who is safe, and keep that info from the public, would be unconscionable and lead to heads rolling and AZ becoming the shame of the nation. It would never happen. :moo:

I've never heard of anything like this ever happening with a missing child, it hasn't has it? Have they ever found a missing child and not said so right away??
 
  • #576
I hear ya, but there is something about Becky's affect that implies a lack of fear, like when she was asked about Isa, she said, "well I hope she's not in danger.....I hope they are feeding her..." or something to that affect. Her statement didn't seem to register the dire consequences and abducted 6 year old girl would face, like she knows something to the contrary. She didn't say she wondered if Isa's safe, being tortured, afraid, feeling abandoned, etc. She wondered if Isa would be hungry.

There's something so unusual about both her's and Sergio's behavior. It's befuddling to me what's going on with this case! :maddening:

Granted we only see very little of their lives and they read prepared statements and gather their emotions when we do, I have to agree with you, even though I am firm in my belief that everyone responds differently to these types of things it does seem as if they are acting as if they know she is alive, missing but alive.
 
  • #577
I've never heard of anything like this ever happening with a missing child, it hasn't has it? Have they ever found a missing child and not said so right away??

I have no personal knowledge of that. The only thing close would be some sort of witness protection service order.
 
  • #578
OMGosh, I thought something may have broken in this case when I signed in because there has been so much activity on the thread. But it appears the majority of the pages have been focused upon whether or not Sergio is gay or not and what implication that may have on his daughter's disappearance.

While I don't condone gay or even bisexual life styles I don't believe the group who choses to live this way are any more likely to abuse their children any more than "straight" people.

It has been suggested that perhaps Sergio brought an unsavory character into the house because he was gay and that partner is responsible for Isa's disappearance. Guess it could be true but cannot settle on that theory as it doesn't fit occam's razor. Too many "and if," and "and if then's" would have to be inserted.

Sexual preferences sure shouldn't indicate anyone is a potential murderer/kidnapper but it shouldn't be an exclusion either. Both heterosexuals and homosexuals have the same capacity for evilness. It rains on the poor and rich alike.
 
  • #579
You would be shocked at the things AZ has done in the past and gets away with... lol unless you have dealt with LE in AZ you wouldn't understand, your not dealing with " The United States " your dealing with Arizona, a state which has been known to do things with shady tactics. Don't agree then maybe you should read the Thomas Dissbarment or take a gander at the shady tactics of Joe Arpaio, they tend to have an above the Fed mentality, they have tent jails which are against the law but are approved as temporary by a pay off to the fire marshall and they have chain gangs which were outlawed many many years ago. So anytime you want to think AZ LE would'nt pull a stunt that borders on somewhat shady or risky... trust me when I say this... AZ will do what they want no matter what and they will find a way to support it. Tell you what though, just take a weeks vacation to AZ and speed down the 51 or the 101 in Phoenix and maybe pull out from a bar sober and make a left hand turn or get in a public argument. You would soon find out your stuck in an episode of locked up abroad and not so much in the US by what happens... and if you try the speeding thing and see a bright flash come from the side of the road... don't be too shocked if when you get back to Florida theres a nice picture in your mailbox and a suspended drivers license.

Who is calling the shots here, FBI or TPD?
 
  • #580
I've never heard of anything like this ever happening with a missing child, it hasn't has it? Have they ever found a missing child and not said so right away??

Have noticed that this idea, about LE keeping a missing child out of sight,seems to come up on a lot of missing kids cases. Never heard of it happening.It would be very traumatic for a child,if LE had ever done that..JMO
 
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