AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #14

[Patty G]

LE has labeled the case on many occasions as: "suspicious circumstances and possible abduction.

Jane just showed a clip of LE stating the above.

 

[johnQpublic]

Could this be a horse trailer? Is TPD searching the wash on horseback (they do use horses sometimes)?

http://media.jsonline.com/images/Celis+Search.jpeg

This would be a Tucson Police Department Mobile command center.

 

[DollyPardonMe]

http://www.news9.com/story/16904402...s-way-into-oklahoma-city?clienttype=printable

News 9 traveled to southern Arizona to see how big the problem with drug cartels really is and why we should be worried about it spreading into the metro even more.

"I wear a bulletproof best at night. I'm scared," said Arizona farmer Scott Blevins. His land is a mile off of Interstate 10 between Phoenix and Tucson. He says the Mexican drug cartels are so dangerous he has to protect himself. That includes a Glock strapped to his ankle.

All I'm saying, is that Mexican Drug Cartels are definitely making their way into the US.

I was driving to my friend's daughters wedding last June and I was warned to stay away from Interstate 8..It runs along the northern corridor of the Mexican border and Arizona. The following article was written in 2010 and it has gotten worse.

The federal government has posted signs along a major interstate highway in Arizona, more than 100 miles north of the U.S.-Mexico border, warning travelers the area is unsafe because of drug and alien smugglers, and a local sheriff says Mexican drug cartels now control some parts of the state.

“Mexican drug cartels literally do control parts of Arizona,” he said. “They literally have scouts on the high points in the mountains and in the hills and they literally control movement. They have radios, they have optics, they have night-vision goggles as good as anything law enforcement has.

“This is going on here in Arizona,” he said. “This is 70 to 80 miles from the border - 30 miles from the fifth-largest city in the United States.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/31/signs-in-arizona-warn-of-smuggler-dangers/?page=all

 

[Anita Richman]

Why is JVM showing a map which would indicate that the search for Isabel is NORTH of the Celis home?

 

[Theforeigner]

Been seeing this headline for the past hour yet haven't seen a statement or quote from LE saying that.

Isabel was abducted, police said

Isabel Mercedes Celis was taken from her midtown home by someone three weeks ago, said Police Chief Roberto Villaseñor — confirming for the first time that the case is an abduction.

"Someone played a part in her disappearance," Villaseñor said in an interview with the Star. "Some person is responsible for Isabel's disappearance. Isabel did not just wander off."

For weeks, police have labeled the case a "suspicious disappearance" and "possible" abduction.

The quote only says to me that Isabel didn't leave on her own.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/pol...cle_2862dfba-f90b-560a-bc5b-28688eda8e04.html

At the end of the newsreport it says:

http://azdailysun.com/news/state-an...cle_e9cca70d-2302-5eb9-80c8-c05633aedbe1.html

.Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


I think that would make the info pretty reliable.

 

[Shelby2]

Why is JVM showing a map which would indicate that the search for Isabel is NORTH of the Celis home?

Ha, JVM also seems to think her show does not show commercials, so your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Azcrabcakes]

Nope, it definitely wouldn't mean cloudy. I'm just offering my opinion on why he might use the term "clear" for her eye color. As I mentioned English is my first language and Spanish is my second, but I can easily see how 'ojos claros' is translated into 'clear eyes' I say strange things like that in normal situations-for example: "get down from the car" or "open the light". It usually happens if I've been switching back and forth from Spanish to English. Anyway, just my personal take on the 'clear eyes' comment from the 911 transcript.

We're both right! I had not taken time to read back...

I often make language flubs... Not with eyes, but I often say "You want coffee, no?" or just "You want coffee?" - which is a tad rude in English. I have oodles of examples. I have been told by strangers that they could tell I spoke another language by my occasional syntax flubs!

Since the word for toes and fingers is the same in Spanish, my husband would often say "She stepped on my fingers!", or "These shoes are pinching my fingers."

 

[bwilson]

Yes that is a horse trailer, same exact one I have, yes they use horses. We still ride horses around here, only a few people actually have cars.

I can't really tell if you are being sarcastic or not, but I actually live in Tucson and have been here since I was 5-years-old. I don't think the use of horses to search a wash is out of the question....

 

[GrainneDhu]

If she was taken for reasons as payback or debt, I don't understand why the parents wouldn't tell LE (maybe they have?) and why the reward money wouldn't go towards settling the debt? Thinking criminally here, maybe the don't want LE giving that financial transaction out of getting caught, but then we are right back to why kidnap a child? Did they expect them NOT to call police?

Has it been said who made the first call, cause to me it appears to have been Sergio.

I know I'm way behind here and maybe this has already been answered. But just in case...

First of all, never ever give in to blackmailers, extortionists or kidnappers. Never. Ever. If you give them what they want, you will never see the end of it because then you've showed them what works.

I know it's cold to say that about an innocent little 6 year old girl but it's even more important not to give in, if this was a kidnap for ransom deal. It's not just Isa's life in danger, if the kidnappers get their ransom, then it's the life of every 6 year old child in the area.

And before anyone even thinks "that's easy for her to say" I've been there. Well, my family was. One of my grandmothers lived in a different country and my parents were sent an extortion note, threatening my grandmother's life if my parents did not comply.

It was probably the hardest thing my parents ever did but they did not comply. My grandmother lived for many more years and died peacefully in her sleep of natural causes.

Second, I don't know about Arizona (and every time I read more about Joe Arpaio, I feel like I understand even less of Arizona...). In my state, I know that if a bank is involved in collecting money for charitable purposes for an individual or family, the stipulations of how that money can be spent have to be set up at the time the account is set up.

It isn't like a family can just collect money in a bank account and then blow it all on a vacation in lieu of using it for their child with cancer. Unless that is how the stipulations were set up in advance.

Anyone who is thinking of donating can get a copy of the conditions and stipulations to help them make a decision as to whether this is a cause they feel comfortable donating to.

Maybe Arizona is really, really different but I'd be surprised if banks were that different. Banks have a lot to lose and undergo a lot of scrutiny (unless they are investment banks, in which case the sky's the limit apparently).

 

[Patty G]

At the end of the newsreport it says:

http://azdailysun.com/news/state-an...cle_e9cca70d-2302-5eb9-80c8-c05633aedbe1.html

.Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


I think that would make the info pretty reliable.

All that the copyright claim does is enforce the copyright law when people copy, paste, rewrite, etc., etc. It does not guarantee it to be factual.

The above is one of the reasons we only allow 10% of a written article from MSM so as not to violate the TOS from any media site.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Just a few thoughts and opinions in now having a moment to listen to the 911 calls that were released yesterday.. I would not have any issue whatsoever with Sergio's phonecall if not FOR ONE ISSUE.. I haven't a problem with his demeanor being extremely different than what we have seen thus far in their statements and interviews.. I hadnt a problem at all with his seeming flair of a dramatic nature that I believe we've all seen in recent weeks.. Nor do I have a problem with the fact that he also has a very calm demeanor at times as we've now seen/heard in his 911 call released yesterday.. Those do not bother me in any way, nor do they raise my "hinky meter".. I also do not necessarily take issue with his comment about his having watched the game at midnight and fell asleep on couch.. I, too agree with ocenablueeyes that IMO it quite likely was stated to emphasize that instead of being across the home in the master bedroom, that he was actually one room over that actually shared a wall with Isa's bedroom.. AND THAT HE STILL HEARD NOTHING AT ALL.. So, I was ok with that statement as well..

As far as the "get her butt home now" comment while I personally didn't very much appreciate it.. I still took no great issue with it.. His overall extremely calm, cool, and collected demeanor as a whole is A-OK with me and I could even understand his possibly being in this mode.. Or frame of mind as this literally was just right then, at that moment, beginning to unfold.. IMO I can absolutely find it believable that a parent would be in a state of mind that this still could quite likely not be a dire situation.. Fully thinking and believing that ok, at any minute someone was gonna show up with Isa.. Or call.. And find out it had all been some weird or strange situation and mix up and Isa was just with a family member or friend.. I totally get that and if I were not an active member here at WS I might be of that mindset in the beginning of a situation such as this(that BTW is absolutely not even a possibility for me at this point from being an active member here so without a doubt I wouldn't ever be of a mindset it's just a mix up.. I full well believe the fear would strike me immediately at just how dire the situation was).. But back on topic of Sergio and his frame of mind possibly being that of this is no big deal yet.. And Isa will turn up any second.. That to me is believable as well as that frame of mind would fit with the demeanor that I hear in this 911 call.. But here's the catch for me..

We however have Sergio's very own words out of his very own mouth THAT LEAVE US WITH ZERO DOUBT OR GUESSING AS TO WHAT WAS HIS FRAME OF MIND OR MINDSET AT THE TIME OF THE 911 CALL.. and be it not for his having stated it MORE THAN ONCE.. Had he not, I PERSONALLY WOULD HAVE HAD ZERO ISSUE WITH HIS 911CALL..

Sadly he tells us explicitly what his exact mindset and frame of mind were and he states it as "his".. As in his personal frame of mind.. Not a "we" as in some or all of us here.. Not a "I fear this".. Not even an "I think this".. No, Sergio owns it and states it more than once with certainty!!!..
"I believe she has been abducted from my home"

There is no guessing or speculating necessary.. Sergio directly tells us what exact frame of mind that he was in when he was on the phone with 911 dispatch.. He states he is of the mindset that Isabel, his precious little princess, the only little darling girl of their family, their baby girl, Isabel ..HE BELIEVES SHE HAS BEEN ABDUCTED FROM THEIR HOME!!!!!!!

He leaves no room for any excuses to be made or presented as reason or cause for his entirely different demeanor than we had seen thus far.. He leaves me no choice or opportunity to even attempt to make an excuse for this 180* turn about of his demeanor In my possibly assuming or speculating that the cause of such a drastically different demeanor was possibly because he was OF AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MINDSET AT THAT TIME.. AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MINDSET THAN WHAT WE HAVE SEEN SINCE THEN.. Possibly due to the fact that IMO would be quite believable in that at the time of the 911 call he was in no way believing his daughter to actually, possibly be in dire straights, danger, and possibly even dead.. But rather be of the mindset this was just temporary.. A misunderstanding and his little princess would be walking through that door at any second..

Again sadly that just is not even a possibility due to the fact that he without doubt states his exact frame of mind, at that moment while on the phone with 911.. AND HE STATES IT MORE THAN ONCE!!!!

Therefor I cannot equate his drastically different demeanor being because he was NOT IN FEAR at that time.. His demeanor IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER CAN BE EQUATED WITH THE FRAME OF MIND THAT HE TELLS US HE WAS OF AT THAT VERY MOMENT IN TIME.. He believed at that time that his daughter had been abducted and I cannot offer up any cause or reason for why this man, this father is of an entirely opposite.. Drastically differing demeanor..

Of course and as always these are nothing more than jmo, tho!!


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

Excellent and thank you.

You would think if he was involved in any manner in Isa's disappearance he would have made the 911 call very dramatic. After all many have said he is an actor yet he is very calm raising red flags for some. I have a hard time rectifying those two things and it pointing to guilt.

I remember in Guy Heniz Jr's 911 call my hinky meter shot off the charts immediately because he was overly dramatic and way over the top in his call at times yet when he wasnt doing his wailing and screaming he was able to maintain very calmly on the phone for 15-20 minutes inside of the home where his whole family lay gruesomely slaughtered and stayed there until police arrived. I wasnt shocked at all when they arrested him for murdering his entire family 8 days later. I am looking forward to keeping up with that trial that I hope happens this year.

Most of the time in 911 calls I have heard where the caller turned out to be the murderer they were way way over the top with the dramatics.

Now the calm 911 call doesnt raise any flags for me and maybe that is because I have had to make them in the past and outwardly people would think I am very calm if they listened to my calls.. even in life and death situations. But on the inside it was a much different story going on. lol

I really think Sergio was trying to convince himself that Isa would be found quickly and be ok.

IMO

 

[PAXIMUS]

This would be a Tucson Police Department Mobile command center.

Yes that is true, they have the big mobile home type things that they use as command centers, to clarify TPD doesnt use horses, the Sheriff's department and Arizona Department of Public Safety do have horses and horse trailers that they have access to for desert searches and things.

 

[Knox]

Authorities say the father of the missing 6-year-old girl was alone with her at the time she disappeared. But police say that doesn't mean he's a suspect.

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151620655.html

Really? Reporter makes it sound like no one else was in the home.

 

[callyn]

Yes that is a horse trailer, same exact one I have, yes they use horses. We still ride horses around here, only a few people actually have cars.

Ouch...

 

[Lark2]

The reason I don't buy the drug/gun cartel abduction theory is that it makes Sergio the victim.

I've been a proponent of "out there" theories from the beginning - but they always involve Sergio and/or JM being the perps - in other words, the people actually DOING the act, whatever it might be. Not someone doing it TO Sergio and his family.

Someone just came into Sergio's house and stole his girl for a drug debt?....or a gun deal gone awry?... etc, etc. Really? Funny how calm he sounds, then, on the 911 tape. If he thought that to be the case - that some bad, scary guys stole his girl, I think he'd be chitting his pants.

Sergio is not a victim. He doesn't talk like a victim, and he doesn't act like a victim.

He acts like a perpetrator. Calm, cool, collected when he shouldn't be. Hyper and overly dramatic at other times. The guy had me fooled after the first sit-down media appearance, but now I see it was all an act.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I can't really tell if you are being sarcastic or not, but I actually live in Tucson and have been here since I was 5-years-old. I don't think the use of horses to search a wash is out of the question....

No I was saying they DO use horses, TPD brought in the Border Patrol for this case in the early going and they were used to search desert area and washes because of their expertise in doing so, they indeed use horses for that.

 

[Shelby2]

If the police feel sure that she was abducted, maybe there's a reason-maybe they have a good suspect? I hope so....

 

[Deleted member 718]

So we can finally put to rest any ideas that Sergio is guilty. That makes it easier to concentrate on what really happened to Isa:

Tucson PD: Isabel was abducted

TUCSON, AZ (CBS5/AP) -
"For the first time, Tucson police said that a 6-year-old girl who vanished from her home last month was abducted."

"Police spokeswoman Maria Hawke said it was an abduction after investigators determined the girl didn't leave her home alone and they reviewed the evidence. She declined to comment further.

Police Tuesday morning searched a wash north of Davis-Monthan Air Force Base for evidence related to Isabel's disappearance, KOLD-TV reported. Thirty officers equipped with shovels and picks combed through the area left empty-handed at about 1 p.m."

http://www.kpho.com/story/18428767/tucson-pd-isabel-was-abducted

Okay! Isabel Celis was abducted. As much as some posters have favored the idea that Sergio had a part in disappearing Isa, Tucson PD disagrees. One does not abduct their own child from their home.

 

[galiuro]

I'm willing to wait and see before jumping to the immediate conclusion that the cartels are haunting our high schools just waiting to snatch our kids...

When this thing first happened, someone here had Sergio been arrested 'within 24 hours' and all it turned out to be was his appearance in court for the dog charges...so scuse me if I take the cartel scare with a huge grain o salt...

 

[Shelby2]

So we can finally put to rest any ideas that Sergio is guilty. That makes it easier to concentrate on what really happened to Isa:

Tucson PD: Isabel was abducted

TUCSON, AZ (CBS5/AP) -
"For the first time, Tucson police said that a 6-year-old girl who vanished from her home last month was abducted."

"Police spokeswoman Maria Hawke said it was an abduction after investigators determined the girl didn't leave her home alone and they reviewed the evidence. She declined to comment further.

Police Tuesday morning searched a wash north of Davis-Monthan Air Force Base for evidence related to Isabel's disappearance, KOLD-TV reported. Thirty officers equipped with shovels and picks combed through the area left empty-handed at about 1 p.m."

Okay! Isabel Celis was abducted. As much as some posters have favored the idea that Sergio had a part in disappearing Isa, Tucson PD disagrees. One does not abduct their own child from their home.

But SC could still know more than he is saying...just thinking about the 'no-contact' thing...