AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #15

[PAXIMUS]

I live in the Houston area, which isn't that close to the border, and Mexican drug cartel/gang-related violence is huge here. Children are occasionally kidnapped, and it doesn't always make national headlines. Sometimes it isn't even reported to LE, because the parents are in the country illegally. I live in a relatively affluent subdivision of Houston, and a child was kidnapped from this area and held for ransom a few years ago. The parents never spoke directly to the media, but stated that they felt the kidnappers took their child to Mexico, and thought they had been targeted because the kidnappers perceived them to be wealthy. The kidnappers sent the child home in a taxi, LE chastised the media for interfering with their investigation, and nothing else was ever reported.

There was a case here recently of a man who was gunned down in front of his family in the parking lot of a nice restaurant. Turned out that 2 Mexican drug cartels were at war and one crime boss put out a hit on another crime boss, and the man's assassination turned out to be a case of mistaken identity - the gunman killed the wrong man and their intended victim had already left the restaurant.

I know none of these cases really pertain to Isabel's case other than to illustrate how drug cartel-related violence might seem far-fetched if you're not accustomed to seeing it in your local news on a regular basis.

This is indeed a growing problem in the SouthWest and as you say a lot of it is never reported because the victims themselves are illegals and afraid to call the cops. Anyone who says this isnt possible in this case is fooling themselves. It may turn out to be something as simple as a pervert taking her or her dad harming her but the evidence to suggest that isnt any more strong than the evidence to suggest it may be something a lot more complex like being involved in some sort of gun smuggling ring.


Keep in mind that the 19 people arrested for Fast and Furious have not went to trial yet, that means they are, right now, talking to the feds in jail awaiting trial, anyone on the other end who wants to SEND A MSG TO THEM TO KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT could very well reach out to extended family and take a child to send that msg. Also keep in mind that the leader of the F F op, Manuel Celis Acosta, originally plead guilty and on May 11th he changed his plea to not guilty, meaning "I am no longer cooperating." That, not long after Isa was taken. NO IDEA IF THIS IS RELATED it is RUMOR, opinion, speculation, hunch, guesswork, crapshoot, buzz, dish, gossip, hearsay, noise, scuttlebutt, rumblings, musing and whispers.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/19/nation/la-na-fast-furious-20120319

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Maybe we can read between the lines and determine that the case of the 3 girls break-in is being reported as likely unrelated to Isabel's case b/c LE has evidence or highly suspects that her "abduction" was an "inside job"...??

Abduction: which means to be taken away by force.. just does not equate to an inside abduction to me.

IMO

 

[Prof]

You mean the surveilance tape that was close to Celis house? The person behind the wall? Did they ever say how this boy got into the house? Was it door, or window? tia

No, I mean the surveilance tape related to the 3 girl case from the Circle K, the one PCSD released to the media asking for help identifying a man in shorts and a green shirt. [BTW I noted that the green shirt in the surveilance is one that is used in fundraising for youth LACROSSE groups across the country. "GYM TAN LAX" is highly connected to youth sports...just saying it could be another possible connection]

Anyway ..sorry...
My post was only answering your question on the 3 girl case....

So the answer is no to your Celis case questions.

If you are asking about how the man (boy?) got into the 3 girl house, it was through their bedroom window (front of the house). He seemed to have known which bedroom was theirs, even though they were just visiting.

 

[prima.facie]

Never ceases to amaze me what addiction causes people to do, that said these people do not belong in prison, they are sick with a disease and need to be under a medical professionals care, that way the prisons have more room for the real bastards who belong there.

Not only that...but when they get out....we are usually faced with something worse than what went in since prisons are not places of rehabilitation (for most; however, some actually do get rehabilitated or in other words hate it so much they straighten up)....

....that is a whole 'nother topic I could go on and on about.....

/OT

 

[amymarie]

IDK? You would think he would have told the 911 op that he called his wife and asked if she was with her instead of just announcing that he told her to get her butt home..

Why would he need to tell the 911 op all that? He said his wife was on the way home - obviously, if Isa was with her, she would have told him that and he wouldn't have even been calling 911. Just because he didn't say that he asked BC if Isa was with her doesn't mean he didn't ask her. Although I would LOVE to hear a recording of that call.

 

[txanmom]

Monday night NG had a PCSD officer on her show. He stated that the person in the surveilance tape has not been ruled out, but they are still investigating others, too.

They believe they have the perp's DNA and at least partial latent prints.
They are waiting for results on all DNA, prints collected for comparison.

He would not comment on the Celis case. NG asked him why PCSD had previously stated that the cases were not likely connected, and he would not comment other than he's aware of the facts gathered on the Celis case and they are comparing notes.

I will say this, if it turns out he was involved in either case, I applaud his father for alerting LE to him. I think that is exceptional. MOO

 

[mamamia54]

That's a good point- it would make more sense if he did call Becky first, before automatically assuming an abduction had occurred.

Well either he or one of the boys called Becky because Sergio on the 911 call says that she's on her way home, and one of the boys was waiting for her in the garage. So then who did call Becky?

 

[winterrose]

BBM Not really fair to judge reactions of parents in front of a dozen cameras talking about their child missing moo

Oh, LE pays close attention to everything they say on camera and off. When they're on camera and not reading from something, you see more into personalities and traits and the parents are concentrating on how they're being perceived, more than what they say. They can slip up and say just the thing LE wants to hear or needs to hear in the investigation. I'd say the father's demeanor and how he says things go right along with the 911 video. He's searching for what to say and why he says some phrases in about every sentence twice.

 

[bwilson]

He says to the dispatcher that he had called Becky before calling 911 but there are no details on what they spoke about besides telling her that her butt needs to get home.

That's right, how could I forget that statement! So he did call her first and told her to get her butt home, but it still seems staged to me. If he had already confirmed Isa wasn't with mommy than he should have been super panicked, right? I keep asking men I know have kids what they think about the 911 call and so far they all feel something's not right about it. Like I mentioned before, my husband was shocked that SC wad able to sing ay church the other day- we have a light-skinned Hispanic 6 year old daughter with light green eyes named Sofia- the LIGHT of my husbands life- if she were missing he would need to be heavily sedated just to get through the day/night.

 

[paris_paris]

There's a difference between the drug cartels which involve Mexican citizens and F&F which was a "mission" of the U.S. Government. It seems as if both are being considered, and some people are getting the two mixed up. I don't know what I believe yet, :fence: but while I do not think cartels have a lot of control over what gets posted online, our government may have the ability to "shut down" a forum if we were getting too close to the truth. Maybe they would just discourage posters by making the site flakey and difficult to use? *LOL*
I think that if there was anything to the F&F theory, we would not still be posting about it. MOO

That's EXACTLY what I thought was happening last night when I tried to log in and got a message we were under construction.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Sorry for the Off Topic here but :

Steve Powell was found GUILTY on all 14 counts !


:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:


Link : 5-9-12 Steven Powell Trial *GUILTY!!!* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[winterrose]

BBM Not really fair to judge reactions of parents in front of a dozen cameras talking about their child missing moo

Also on the couch interview when asked to talk directly to Isa, he didn't look at the camera, he was looking from one side to the other at the reporter and their people.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

That's an interesting point. (including the post that the above quote was a response to). I had heard one of the sons had run in to party city looking for his sister, but it would be faster to run home than to drive there. Hmmmm 6 minutes seems like an awfully long time to drive. Fwiw we don't really have any convenience stores nearby unless you count the gas station on the NW corner of broadway and craycroft or the liquor store on the east side of craycroft just north of 22nd. So again...hmmmm. I wonder where he was that took 6 minutes to get home by car on a Saturday morning with no traffic.
I'm not implying anything nefarious. I'm just trying to fit the pieces together.

Never been to Tucson so I don't know much about the streets or neighborhoods. I thought that the "store" sounded like 7/11 or a convenience mart at a gas station. We have Party City in Michigan (if it's the same place - party goods, holiday decorations, etc.), but I wouldn't think they'd be open at 8:00 on Saturday morning. Hours are more like 10-9 like most malls and shopping centers.

I found it odd that Dad sent the son out to look for Isabel without having made the 9-1-1 call and that the storekeeper was actually the first person to call the emergency number. :moo:

ETA: There are two Party City stores in Tucson. The one that appears to be in the vicinity of the Celis home is located at:

5566 E Broadway Blvd
Tucson, AZ 85711
Store #162

Both locations open at 8:30 on Saturday morning, so it's possible that this is where the Celis boy went looking for his sister.

 

[Donjeta]

Why would he need to tell the 911 op all that? He said his wife was on the way home - obviously, if Isa was with her, she would have told him that and he wouldn't have even been calling 911. Just because he didn't say that he asked BC if Isa was with her doesn't mean he didn't ask her. Although I would LOVE to hear a recording of that call.

The thought makes it seem more incongruous imo that he chuckled when he was talking about calling Becky. Because for most parents that would have been the hope against all hope that the other parent had their daughter and to have her tell him no would have been a disappointment and that phone call would have made him more scared, more anxious, more upset, and not a humorous thought.

He could have been awake when RC left and already have known that she didn't take Isabel with her?

 

[spoiledmom]

Oh I thought someone said they kidnap these children to recruit them into the drug cartel.

But with LE having Sergio under a powerful microscope for almost a month now dont you think they would find some type of evidence tying hm to gun running or drugs?

I mean wouldnt he have to communicate with these people in someway either by cell phone or other means?

IMO

Yes. I think if LE is suspicious or has evidence of Sergio doing some illegal activity, that it is the reason they informed CPS and the boys were taken away. If this is correct, I can understand why Sergio has not been arrested yet. They may need him around to get Isa back safely. Then after she is home safe and LE has concrete evidence they make their arrest. Just my theory.

 

[AnaTeresa]

I'm still neutral on the whole issue. I haven't seen any evidence that sways me much in one direction or another. Lots of theories being bandied about, but I've heard very, very little in the way of actual facts. About the only thing I am reasonably confidant about is that there is a 6 year old female child by the name of Isabel Celis who has not been seen since 4/20/12. I am still open to any possibility.

I'm beginning to get a disturbing feeling that LE still doesn't have any idea what has happened to Isabel either.

Me too. I'm leaning towards LE throwing everything they have at this case and hoping something sticks. I'm not sure they have any significant evidence pointing toward something definitive.

 

[spoiledmom]

Abduction: which means to be taken away by force.. just does not equate to an inside abduction to me.

IMO

They call parental kidnappings abductions. If Sergio was involved it doesn't mean his wife was. Therefore it would still be called an abduction.

 

[Prof]

Well, I would assume that SC and RC discussed the plan for Saturday. RC went in to wake ISA for the baseball game she had that morning. I would not think that SC would ask RC if she had Isa, because of the plan, and because it is not that easy to take a child to work in a hospital...IMO

 

[bwilson]

​

Abduction: which means to be taken away by force.. just does not equate to an inside abduction to me.

IMO

Hopefully, we will get to the truth soon. I am on the fence, like many. I just can't understand any reason for Cps to prohibit SC from contact if he weren't somehow, some way involved in this mess, in my opinion.

 

[LisaB]

I am not in any camp, I got my tent pitched outside the gates where I sit alone, starving for a friend or companion to come join me in my madness.


At this point anything is possible.

I'll pitch my tent out there with you. And if you start the campfire, I'll bring the marshmallows.