AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #15

[txanmom]

I must confess. Our only son was a breathtakingly beautiful child, imo, so one day I decided to dress him up in one of his sister's sundresses when he was around two years old. I had his hair long at the time and cut in layers so I even put his hair up in two ponytails (puppy dog ears) and of course he was so darling, I had to take pictures of him.

As he grew older he would see those photos he would ask me to throw them away. So after a few years I tore them up and threw them away like he asked. I realized that really wasnt something I should have done. He would have been very mad and embarassed if I had ever showed them to anyone.

But with him being the youngest child with four older sisters they did think he was their baby dress up doll for a long time until he put his foot down and told them to leave him alone! LOL!

He is now 37 years old and weighs 197 and is 6'1' and is happily married with two children of his own. His daddy would put me on restriction if I even brought up the subject about those old pictures of him. His daddy from the get go didnt like that I did that and after awhile I realized it was unfair to G!

IMO

Oh, you are right! I will never show them to anyone, I just like to tease him about it since he is 14 and everything I do or say embarrasses him, lol! My dd also put makeup on our dog Dexter once, boy that was weird, she put so much flesh colored powder on him that he looked human - it was spooky!

back on topic - Isa come home, sweetie!!!

 

[cluciano63]

In calling it an abduction, is LE indicating that they don't believe a homicide is involved?

I am guessing the don't know...and they were answering a question about scenarios being ruled out when they said this, they said they HAVE ruled out that she walked out the door alone...JMO

 

[Madeleine74]

Well please feel free to help figure out why LE is off digging around in a gully/wash area not too far from the Celis home.

WHERE would a Cartel have taken Isa?

IF the Cartel is waiting for payment, why hasn't contact been made or monies for the payment been raised? What's taking so long?

IF the Cartel has taken Isa out of the U.S. or sold or given her to some other group (assuming outside the U.S.) why is LE off digging around in a nearby gully/wash? Why isn't the US government working with other countries (let's assume Mexico) to get her back?

It's been a month.

WHY would police worry about the family and investigating the family when there's a gang of some kind who took Isa?

WHO is this Cartel, WHO is their 'leader?' Why do they hate little girls? I mean they could have taken one of the two boys instead, right? A 14 yr old could have been put to work on their gun or drug smuggling operations. What good is a 6 yr old girl to them (other than selling or just being super cruel)? There has to be some kind of benefit or upside to the Cartel to take this route.

 

[GutFeeling!]

Oh I thought someone said they kidnap these children to recruit them into the drug cartel.

But with LE having Sergio under a powerful microscope for almost a month now dont you think they would find some type of evidence tying hm to gun running or drugs?

I mean wouldnt he have to communicate with these people in someway either by cell phone or other means?

IMO

Google fast and Furious - that was where all this started

 

[Prof]

The cartel doesn't target innocent families. They target people that owe them money or get in there way. It has nothing to do with them being hispanic or having a child. It is a theory about whether Sergio was possibly involved in some illegal activity with the cartel. His brother was arrested on drug charges near the border a while ago and its possible that Sergio could have some connections. None of it is fact, just a theory. Whether it be gun smuggling, transporting drugs, buying drugs etc. If he is, then that would be a reason for them to be involved in Isa's disappearance. If he is not, then there is no reason for them to be involved.

I am sorry, but I am a little confused. I thought I had found all records at the start of this case. I have not looked recently, so maybe I missed something. BBM what brother? Initials are fine. I see the next sentence is "none of it is fact" so am I to take that the SC's brother arrested on drug charges as part of that theory?

 

[FrayedKnot]

Okay, I am waaaay behind and have a couple more pages to catch up, but.....

I will preface this by saying I am not married to this theory, but I find it has merit and I am currently doing some digging to verify family relationships.

The Fast and Furious theory is not related to drug cartels. It was a botched US sting and it is believed that several gun runners who were caught became informants.

There is a possible familial connection between SC and a few of the higher profile people currently awaiting trial.

The Monday after Isa went missing, two of the defendants changed their pleas from "guilty" to "not guilty".

I think it is plausible that if Sergio was indeed part of this gun cartel and turned informant on his own family (possibly), then Isa may be being held pending Sergio's 'revised' testimony. I found it awfully strange the timing of the plea change and adding that with possible family ties, odd (IMO) behavior and the NCO, make me think LE also knows of Sergio's involvement and that was the catalyst for contacting CPS.

In summary, I do not think this is drug, or drug cartel related, nor do I think Isa was taken as payment for a debt.

I sort of feel like the people who are pooh pooing the cartel thing are stuck on one scenario of SC getting in debt to some drug kingpin. Yet many of us who are looking into a 'cartel' scenario for merit are looking at a completely different set of possibilities.

Again, it's all MOO, and only one theory I am entertaining but I wanted to make sure everyone understood what exactly the Fast and Furious scenario entailed.

thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[deca]

MOO

I just don't see the dad and mom mixed up in cartel business. They seemed to have busy, successful careers (not occasional pick up jobs) that they needed education for. They also seemed to have an active upright social life (church, baseball). That isn't to say it isn't possible, they just don't fit the stereotypical cartel people that I have seen getting arrested up here in the PNW. That also isn't to say that some cartel people kidnapped Isabel because she was "cute" or she felt dad dissed them or whatever....I just don't think the dad and/or mom socialized with those types, worked for them, did them favors, etc.

 

[Prof]

Can someone please provide me with this information also, thank you.

Beats me. This is the first I have seen of it.

 

[spoiledmom]

Okay I totally believe you! Let's go with this theory and work with it.

- A cartel has Isa.
- She was either given to them or they took her from her home.
- It's either to settle a $$$ debt or for revenge because a debt wasn't paid.

Now they have a 6 yr old child. What are their available options:

- Kill her
- Sell or give her away
- Keep her

If Isa is still alive, she's either in the U.S. or she's not.

If Isa is alive, I don't know why LE is off digging for "evidence" in some gully/wash area. Why would a cartel have taken her there? What evidence would they have left behind belonging to Isa? Seems like LE is way off track and wasting time...looking for evidence in a gully/wash.

If Isa is dead, she was either killed and discarded in the U.S. or outside the U.S. Has a cartel ever taken a small child (and only a small child) and then killed them and not asked for ransom? I don't know.

It seems like LE is heading in a direction of a dead Isa, looking for discarded/buried evidence of some kind. Maybe someone needs to alert them that they are way off, searching in some gully a mere 3 mi or so from the Celis home.

I don't know what or how LE negotiates with the cartel but I have a feeling that they may do it privately because the cartel gets their way. I know it sounds horrible but the cartel is so dangerous that there are so many innocent lives lost when LE tries to stop them. They are evil, vicious people. I don't know if LE weighs the options of losing several of their own verses giving the cartel what they want in exchange for the child. It is a horrible situation.

If they are involved there is a huge chance Isa is alive. One reason I say this is because I have heard of past kidnappings where the parent's owe money to the cartel, the cartel kidnaps their child, and the cartel ends up sending the child back alive. I am assuming they did this because they got their money.

I don't know what goes on behind the scenes in this scenario but I have heard that previous children have been given back to their parents and you never hear what happened with the people that took them.

As far as the spot where LE was searching, I am wondering if maybe it was a meeting spot. Maybe Sergio met with them there and just gave them Isa. I really don't know. Again, this is a theory of mine, not a fact. I'm sure they have some kind of evidence from those cameras as to if Sergio left the home and what time etc..

 

[jennapuppy]

Why isn't the US government working with other countries (let's assume Mexico) to get her back?

US marshalls are working with Mexican law enforcement to search for her in Mexico, as well. This has been widely reported and there are several links in MSM.

 

[GutFeeling!]

Abduction: which means to be taken away by force.. just does not equate to an inside abduction to me.

IMO

Family members abduct children a fair bit according to NISMART and FBI

 

[galiuro]

If the 'possible family ties' are nothing more than the last name Celis, then that's a pretty weak connection.

 

[spoiledmom]

Can someone please provide me with this information also, thank you.

Golly Gee, this is old news. It was posted on here shortly after she went missing. It was the uncle or cousin that lived with them. Does anyone know if the link is still available? I will look.

 

[tlcya]

Is anyone else frustrated with this? the first sentence is not what the next paragraph means.

Also on Tuesday, police officially confirmed Isabel was kidnapped.

Tucson Police Chief Robert Villaseñor told the Star, “Someone played a part in her disappearance... Some person is responsible for Isabel's disappearance. Isabel did not just wander off.”

http://www.examiner.com/article/aut...a-desert-for-missing-tucson-girl-isabel-celis

sigh. Not sure I like this new instanews world where so often anymore words are taken out of context. Can anyone clarify for me if a LEO or spokeperson actually said the words "Isabel was kidnapped"? TIA because the bolded by me statement above means nothing of the sort.

 

[Anita Richman]

I think this answered a question I had. There was a short video clip I saw where SC was singing in a church with I think his wife. If this happened AFTER the child was missing, this really bothers me. I know he was a good singer, but I just cannot see how he could handle doing that. It looked to be some sort of tribute song for his missing daughter. If that is the case, I just cannot see how someone could handle that.

But then again, like we mentioned before, everyone is different.

He IS a professional opera singer, so he may be accustomed to performing under emotional circumstances. He also did mention in an interview that he didn't know if he'd be able to perform that day, he was going to play it by ear. Some people might consider that his faith in God gave him the strength to sing "Ava Maria", which is a very important prayer in the Catholic faith.

 

[time]

Well please feel free to help figure out why LE is off digging around in a gully/wash area not too far from the Celis home.

WHERE would a Cartel have taken Isa?

IF the Cartel is waiting for payment, why hasn't contact been made or monies for the payment been raised? What's taking so long?

IF the Cartel has taken Isa out of the U.S. or sold or given her to some other group (assuming outside the U.S.) why is LE off digging around in a nearby gully/wash? Why isn't the US government working with other countries (let's assume Mexico) to get her back?

It's been a month.

WHY would police worry about the family and investigating the family when there's a gang of some kind who took Isa?

WHO is this Cartel, WHO is their 'leader?' Why do they hate little girls? I mean they could have taken one of the two boys instead, right? A 14 yr old could have been put to work on their gun or drug smuggling operations. What good is a 6 yr old girl to them (other than selling or just being super cruel)? There has to be some kind of benefit or upside to the Cartel to take this route.

A few days ago LE clearly said they have two directions or theories. I guess one has to involve the parents somehow, the other? Now I am thinking they have what are the obvious two choices and those are just generic - it was either and inside job or wasn't.

I think along with the drug cartel theory one could entertain all those theories that could have to do with being close to the border since it is an easy escape from US jurisdiction... pedophile, child sex trafficking, illegal adoption, hiding a body, and so on.

 

[bwilson]

In calling it an abduction, is LE indicating that they don't believe a homicide is involved?

What I gleaned from that statement is that they do not believe Isa was killed inside the home- that's all.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Golly Gee, this is old news. It was posted on here shortly after she went missing. It was the uncle or cousin that lived with them. Does anyone know if the link is still available? I will look.

I remember seeing it but I dont have official documentation in my notes. I can get it, if you get it first post.

 

[azwildcat]

Right in the middle of Tucson is a CITY one square mile in size that is called THE CITY OF SOUTH TUCSON, they have their own police and fire dept, city council etc, it is only one sqaure mile in size and it is 99% old family traditional hispanics, there are a lot of drugs and prostitution there but it isnt any worse than any other inner city type ghetto in the nation and I particularly enjoy the area for its good authentic ethnic foods and mom and pop stores but that is just me.

I remember in high school a friend of mine gave me a very stern talking to about driving through South Tucson, I was to never go there alone or get out of my car. I always found it sort of silly because I never felt unsafe there. But then I lived near a not so desirable part of town and didn't feel unsafe there either. But now I'm missing one of the best places to get a raspado (not South Tucson, but on 12th). Ahh joys of being pregnant and not in the area. Well, this was a nice OT rant for me today. :seeya:

 

[PAXIMUS]

If the 'possible family ties' are nothing more than the last name Celis, then that's a pretty weak connection.

That is why one keeps an open mind and continues to research to see if there is more to that <modsnip>