AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[Whisperer]

I realize that the method of handling and location of the body dump gives LE clues about killer, but LE specifically stated to leave the searching to them. (Please don't ask me to find this link. ). What made LE state this?

If a family member killed Isabel, her body is more likely to be well hidden. (Psycho stalker killers and serial killers frequently don't try too hard to conceal the victim's body.) One would think LE would want volunteer help if the body might be more difficult to find.

You sure know your stuff Pennsfan..

 

[Pensfan]

Hate to ask, but was trash dumps searched weeks back?

Yes, it was one of the first places that was searched.

 

[Kat]

Yea, I agree. Look at this misleading headline! http://[link removed]/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981340218

Isabel Celis Updates: Remains Found, Abduction Not Ruled Out
Chelsea Hoffman

(she write the most lurid articles trying to get readers. The comments are telling)

Going to bounce off your post gliving.

On another thread here I had to learn the hard way that gather (.com) and examiner (.com) appear to be MSM but in reality they are blogs written and submitted by users that aggregate information from MSM articles and do rewrites.

There are one or two of those bloggers that tend to be factual but there are even more that aren't. So if any new *tidbit* or new *facts* pop up in an article (blog) on one of those two sites I make sure that I, personally, make a mental note about where the info came from and what type of sites those are.

JFYI for anyone that didn't know. JMHO

 

[mamamia54]

Thanks, prof...now I have to add another entrance. It appears there is a sliding door to the porch also...that makes FIVE doors.

I'm attempting to make sense of that new floorplan, it's difficult with all those lines.

 

[Jules71]

good point

rbbm in answer to your questions about what I have discovered/read.

Thanks. See I think I remember reading someone from her work saying she got there "early" that day. That she arrived at work at 7 am for an 8 am shift.

My gut is telling me something went down at 6:30 am as the neighbor claims to have heard something. What's to say Mom didn't wake Isa, take her with her, and hand her off to someone prior to going in to work?

 

[cluciano63]

I realize that the method of handling and location of the body dump gives LE clues about killer, but LE specifically stated to leave the searching to them. (Please don't ask me to find this link. ). What made LE state this?

If a family member killed Isabel, her body is more likely to be well hidden. (Psycho stalker killers and serial killers frequently don't try too hard to conceal the victim's body.) One would think LE would want volunteer help if the body might be more difficult to find.

I agree, I brought this up last night that in the recent cases where a non-family member was involved, the bodies were found fairly quickly. And yet in the the cases where a family member, or someone who lived in the home, is at least a POI (if unofficially) the children have NOT been found...Kyron, Aliyah, Ayla, Hailey, Haleigh, etc...)

I believe random offenders are more likely to not worry too much where they leave a body, due to their lack of connection to the victim, while those who would be the first suspects tend to take greater care in finding a place that will not be easily found. Also, they, if guilty, would have all the time they need, since they would be doing the initial reporting.

I wish LE would at least make, and repeat, the standard announcements for people to be checking their properties, keeping an eye out while hiking, biking, etc...I know they like to say they believe she is alive, but the places they have searched do not confirm that for me.

JMO

 

[Eileen730]

They're hard to see, but they're there, particularly when you're familiar with this kind of trash can.

And it has wheels!
I have this exact same trash can and my kids can move it i can move it and the old man across the street can move his. We put them out every evening
before trash day and bring it in after its collected it can not stay out on the street.

Just my 2 cents lol

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Okay the majority seem to be open to the theory that Sergio is guilty of something. So let's say hypothetically that he harmed her ( or hate to say it but killed her) between the time she went to bed and the time he called 911. That means one of the following happened.

1. Her body is still in the home ( ruled out, police and dog searched).
2. He left the home at night with her body and returned before any other family members awoke
3. He left the home with her body in the morning between the time RC went to work and the time he called 911.
4. He had an accomplice come and retrieve her body at night.
5. He had an accomplice come and retrieve her body between RC leaving for work and the time he called 911.
6. RC was his accomplice and removed the body as she left for work.

Curious as to which everyone thinks is most plausible.
MOO if his car was out and about ANY time between bedtime and 911, some pedestrian, driver, or camera has noticed it. That would be my question for LE at the presser, not that they would answer, but "is there any evidence suggesting that SC left his home in between bedtime and the 911 call?" and the follow up " is there any evidence that another car came to and left the Celis home during that same time frame?"

Thank you, marazul, for this post. It helps me try to think through all of the possibilities in a logical manner. But with TPD emphasizing at every presser that they have no reason to believe she is dead, and further, that they still hold out hope that she is alive ~ We don't have to (or shouldn't) limit ourselves to how SC disposed of her body. There remains the possibility that he (or he and an accomplice) simply walked/carried Isabel out of the house to a vehicle parked anywhere nearby. For what cause and to what fate, I have no guesses.

In either case, alive or not, it makes me believe there would have to have been an accomplice with another vehicle involved. :dunno:

This is not my theory. I have none. But I just wanted to make sure you weren't building your box of possibilities too small. :blowkiss:

 

[Mjskit]

Becky also self-corrects herself on the age of her daughter in this audio (from f...to six).

Consider that aside from the gravity of the circumstances surrounding this call, this family may likely have a language gap, and certainly a cultural one. Not all people speak or act like our neighbors down the block. I am not putting much stock on SC's perceived lack of factual information at this time for many reasons. I do know that even the most innocent or the most evil of persons, at some point stumble through their verbal recollection of events. There is also something about Becky that jerks my chain and I wonder if she was even with her children on the night in question.

Thanks for the audio. What did you hear that may or may not have made a difference in your opinion of the situation after listening?

RUMOR-----RUMOR---- Last week I read on the FB Find Isabel site a commenter stated Isabel was adopted. I know everyone says Isa looks just like her mother so I discarded it. But I can't tell you how many Maury Povich shows I have seen when the mother says this guy is the father, he looks just like him stuff then the DNA says he is NOT the father.
RUMOR ONLY

 

[Whisperer]

Not a dental assistant, he is a surgical assistant in an oral surgeon's practice. Here, that would be in the 50 to 70k range, as would be an RN with a 2 year degree.

I think Sergio likes to toot his own horn. His friend said he works as a dental assistant. At first it was reported he was a dental hygienist too. You could be right but I tend to think he works as a dental assistant.

Is there some special school for surgical assistant and if there is do you have to be certified/licensed?

 

[Leomoon80]

I saw that show, and honestly, I couldn't climb on top of ours either. I'm 5'5" and I seem to remember her commenting that perhaps someone taller than "Greg" could have climbed on it. (He took a little offense at her comment, if I recall--gave her the stink eye.)

For what it's worth, I definitely wouldn't stand on one of those or use it to climb over a wall. You'd fall right in, IMO, even if it didn't slide out from underneath you.

I'm in Az. so can sizes are the same as their's.
I just stood next to mine, and it reached to the top of my shoulder.

I'm just about 5Ft tall

I think they all have wheels, though small ones to take them to the curb.

 

[taagean]

TY so much...2400 sq feet I could kind of believe. I wondered if they had built on to the house... So, they actually had this house built ? They bought the lot,and then had the house built ? TIA

If you have the download version of Google Earth and punch in an address, at the bottom right hand corner there is an imagery date. Beside that there is another date (1992 for ex). If you click on that and go to the top left of the screen, you can scroll across and see the different images from 1992 until the current one. You can see the empty lot for the Celis house on Nov 23/04 and then the house being built on the image date of June 20/05.
It's a great tool to see the changes over the years.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Here whisp.. Here's a screen shot of the floor plan that I believe you're speaking of.. I snapped and posted it that night alongside KGUN's watered down version of the floor plan ..



____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

 

[Prof]

Hypothetically speaking.... Assuming someone did go over the wall, lets say Uncle J all he would need to do is park his jeep out front and jump over the wall... Getting in and out of this property doe's not look like any sort of rocket science would be needed unless you were a teacup chuwawa. Also we are not sure if its the front kids room or the middle kids room where Isa stayed. I find it very hard to beleave someone would have gotten in and out of the property without a dog at least barking in the middle of the night and waking SC or the boys up... I'm really starting to venture into the very much likelyhood that this involved Sergio or Uncle Justin or both but I also slightly wonder about Uncle Louis but I'm more leaning on SC and JM.. Remember LE said " It's not what we know or think its what we can prove in court " but i'm also still not so certain Isa is dead but rather perhaps at one of JM's vacation locations... in FL, WA, N.AZ or even Mexico BUT yah never know.

Those three states are where his family lives... the pics from FB are where family live. His "vacations" are to visit family. IMO if he had a hand in this, he would not take Isa to a location where he is surrounded by his and naturally her relatives. Would that not mean the whole familiy -- his brother, his mother (Becky's Aunt) his uncle (Becky's father) are all in on it too?

 

[Patty G]

This is probably not any better...

I wonder how the media determined that room at the back of the house, next to Isa's bedroom is a Den. I would have thought that would be a bedroom.

Do you see a door from the Den to the backyard?

 

[Pensfan]

You sure know your stuff Pennsfan..

The skeeeery stuff we read on Websleuths sticks in the memory. :noooo:

Why didn't/doesn't LE want volunteers to help search in this three mile radius? Is there a reason besides untrained volunteers might "mess up" something they find?

 

[callyn]

I tend to agree with you.

....but I think he is a dental assistant...not too grand of pay in that AFAIK. I don't even know if he works full time. My guess is his singing is his priority.

He is a surgical assistant in an oral surgery office. Depending on his expertise, the pay can be very good.
(I held that job years ago)

 

[mamamia54]

Floorplan 1 & 2

 

[Prof]

I realize that the method of handling and location of the body dump gives LE clues about killer, but LE specifically stated to leave the searching to them. (Please don't ask me to find this link. ). What made LE state this?

If a family member killed Isabel, her body is more likely to be well hidden. (Psycho stalker killers and serial killers frequently don't try too hard to conceal the victim's body.) One would think LE would want volunteer help if the body might be more difficult to find.

Good point.
I think LE has been very clear about leaving the searches to LE.
Are there typical ways /places family members dispose of bodies?

 

[elmomom]

I think Sergio likes to toot his own horn. His friend said he works as a dental assistant. At first it was reported he was a dental hygienist too. You could be right but I tend to think he works as a dental assistant.

Is there some special school for surgical assistant and if there is do you have to be certified/licensed?

Some surgical assistants are PA's. A Physician's Assistant is a special training and a license. All states vary in the amount of licensing required for these types of positions and I am completely unfamiliar with Arizona as I am in PA and from NYC. But commonly, a techniician doing prep work with no lisence can be trained to become an assistant. During college in NYC (I was a science major) I worked in a medical practice and went from prepping supplies to be trained on drawing bloodwork, giving routine injections and other direct patient responsibilities. No license and no formal training and the pay was phenomenal for me At the time minimum wage was about ... 3 maybe? I was making about 12 an hour part time.
If you search, there was a local who posted here about the practice he works for if I am not mistaken. Just don't make me search for it lol, these threads are waaaaay too long and with a full time job, I can barely keep up, never mind go back into the past ones!

Forgive my typos I am on an iPad with a mind of its own tonite. I do know how to spell, really.