AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[Jules71]

-bolded by me-

So if SC fell asleep there, with the tv on (and some lights on probably) would that not be an indication to anyone who wanted to kidnap Isabel that night that someone in the house was awake?

Right! I cannot believe anyone broke in and took her. It just does not seem one bit possible to me.

Please tell me there have been people who have confirmed seeing Isa at the baseball game the night before, right?

 

[mamamia54]

Right now I really think Mom and Dad are both in on it. I think Mom got Isa up and they went into the garage, got in Mom's car and drove off. Then they met up with someone else who took Isa and Mom continued on to work - getting there "very early" for her shift. If you just *read* the 911 transcripts - neither parents words seem right to me. I think after they left the house, Dad staged the window thing and woke up the boys and told them the story of going in to wake up Isa and he told them to go look around - and made sure one of them found the screen off. I think he then sent the 14 yo to look around the neighborhood and the 10 yo to wait in the garage for Mom so he could call 911 and not have them listening in on his call.

There is also a RUMOR I read on another site that says the owner of the party store said parents and kids from Isa's school have been in to the store and have said Isa was not at school on Friday. Not sure if that means anything but could.

I hadn't heard about Isa not being at school on Friday, but one of my thoughts was that something may have happened to Isa inside her room or somewhere in the house. While Becky was getting dressed and ready for work, someone could have placed her body in the trunk of Becky's car, she wouldn't have been the wiser, and she drove off to work.

Whoever had extra keys to her car could have come along after she parked and went into work, and taken Isa out of the vehicle, and took her body somewhere. Who would do this? Who in the family would be able to carry this out? I don't know, I don't even want to venture a guess, but is it at all possible, cause I can't see how she would get off that property any other way.

 

[Shelby2]

:woohoo:

Here's another thing that kinda bothers me is not only was the evidence at the house cleaned up really well (allegedly by the abductor) but this family did not do a very good job of preventing cross contamination of evidence by running all over the house, in and out of the doors, touching things, possibly moving the screen when the kid found it off ( which is how I think the screen got from the side yard where Isa's window is to the backyard. ) They simply ruined the scene, The dad should have had those boy's stay in thier room while he went out the main front door and walked around the house and been very careful in what he touched or moved. If you ask me having the kids run amuck looking and touching everything was a very bad move on dads part. JMO but man how they made it a mess for LE, The very minute he suspected her missing he should have called 911.. IMO

But I'm not sure the average families first thought would be to preserve a crime scene...

 

[cluciano63]

Thanks - reading this is helping me sort out how to verbalize my thoughts. He doesn't fit the profile. No previous criminal history for violence. No domestic abuse that led to charges. No obvious drug problem. No obvious financial problem. I agree completely that he IS the most likely suspect in this case, based on statistics as well as he had the best opportunity. But if he is guilty he will be regarded like a Scott Peterson - an unlikely but obviously guilty party who doesn't fit the profile. I think SOME people are trying too hard to make him fit a "bad guy" profile, but he doesn't have to fit it to still be the bad guy in this case. sometimes, seemingly good guys do very bad things.

I just wish there was some actual bona fide evidence and not just a whole mountain of innuendo coming out of LE.

They may have some evidence but not enough for charges. They may have some changing or mismatched statements, for example. There may be no signs of another person in the home besides the immediate family. Things we don't know about, because they won't say.

I think it was about a month, or longer, into the Ayla case when LE came out with their statement that they did not believe the adults in the home were being completely forthcoming, something like that. Since then, they have repeated this, we well as saying that no one came in and took Ayla away. Yet even at 5 months, they can't make an arrest. It is frustrating.

I am hoping this LE (and Ayla's etc...) will show their cards soon...something solid to latch onto. In so many of these cases, the parents more or less go into hiding, and if LE does not keep up the PC's, I wonder how much longer we will be hearing much about Isabel.

JMO

 

[white rabbit]

Right now I really think Mom and Dad are both in on it. I think Mom got Isa up and they went into the garage, got in Mom's car and drove off. Then they met up with someone else who took Isa and Mom continued on to work - getting there "very early" for her shift. If you just *read* the 911 transcripts - neither parents words seem right to me. I think after they left the house, Dad staged the window thing and woke up the boys and told them the story of going in to wake up Isa and he told them to go look around - and made sure one of them found the screen off. I think he then sent the 14 yo to look around the neighborhood and the 10 yo to wait in the garage for Mom so he could call 911 and not have them listening in on his call.

There is also a RUMOR I read on another site that says the owner of the party store said parents and kids from Isa's school have been in to the store and have said Isa was not at school on Friday. Not sure if that means anything but could.

it wasn't a rumor...it was a post on abc.com from EC herself (the party store employee) that said she had parents' come in saying isa wasn't in school the day prior. she also wondered why a 7 or 8 year old was walking around town that morning asking if anyone had seen his sister. IMO that was the 10-year old.

now...i ask you all this...the 14 year old had to get a ride back to his house which, according to the 911 call, took approximately 6 minutes. so his walk, to wherever he ended up in the first place, probably took roughly 15 minutes.
if not more.

my point is, if SC truly thought this was an abduction, he never would've set both sons off in different directions that morning. he knew it wasn't an abduction, IMO.

and i'm really starting to wonder if, after the hair was braided, RC didn't leave that night and didn't return until we heard her voice arrive at the house on the 911...JMO...

 

[SmoothOperator]

Re: rumor from store employee that she'd been told by multiple parents/children that Isa was not in school on Friday.. This RUMOR has since then been debunked as bunk aka bs.. It was confirmed 2weeks into the case that Isa was at school on Friday 4/20.. But I personally had found the school info to be essentially irrelevant as far as Isa not being around/disappeared by Friday 4/20 due to the fact that we had multiple people state they had seen and interacted with Isa at the ball fields Friday night 4/20.. Even one of the adults had helped out Isa as she was apparently choking on a potato chip so the adult had given Isa water to wash it down..

It's these details that IMO had me secure in the knowledge that Isa was very much alive and well and present and accounted for through Friday later evening at the ball fields.. This verified through persons other than family members..

Jmo, tho..


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

 

[mamamia54]

Yes... I downloaded the picture and loaded it into Nikon's picture viewer and it pulled the raw meta data from it... the phone it was uploaded from did not have GPS activated at the time the picture was taken so the location tag is missing from the metadata BUT it does say it was taken on 22APR2012

Is that data correct? That's a day after she went missing.

 

[Prof]

Excerpt from http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2002/03/when_parents_kill.html

Children under the age of 5 in the United States are more likely to be killed by their parents than anyone else. Contrary to popular mythology, they are rarely killed by a sex-crazed stranger. FBI crime statistics show that in 1999 parents were responsible for 57 percent of these murders, with family friends and acquaintances accounting for another 30 percent and other family members accounting for 8 percent. Crime statistics further reveal that of the children under 5 killed from 1976 to 1999, 30 percent were murdered by their mothers while 31 percent were killed by their fathers. And while the strangers, acquaintances, and other family members who kill children skew heavily toward male...

Researchers, building on the work of Phillip Resnick, have shown that women tend to kill their own offspring for one of several reasons: because the child is unwanted; out of mercy; as a result of some mental illness in the mother; in retaliation against a spouse; as a result of abuse. Frequent themes are that they themselves deserved to be punished, that killing the children would be an altruistic or loving act, or that children need to be "erased" in order to save or preserve a relationship. Contrast this with the reasons men kill their children: Most frequently—like Garcia or Soltys—they kill because they feel they have lost control over their finances, or their families, or the relationship, or out of revenge for a perceived slight or infidelity.

Just exploring the research on why parents might kiil, and what they might do after it happens...

I saying that either of Isa's parents have done this or anyone else in her family.

I am the lone poster waiting for the arrest on the 3 girls assault case, still open to that possibility of being connected.

I am really still open to any possibility...hopefully the furtherest thing from this post, where Isa can still come home safe.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

In my worst case scenario, I can see a possibility for domestic violence or abuse of some sort, though i don't feel it in my gut. What I have trouble with is that this guy has a respectable job, has a semi professional musical interest, is a little league coach, and yet some people think he is an obvious drug addict, or is dealing drugs, or into other outright criminal activities.. I know everyone dislikes the guy, but c'mon, he is just too busy to be a meth cooker or a crack head!

I agree. I dont see it either elmomom.

There are a lot of things that dont point to Sergio's guilt, IMO.

So many have stressed he is an actor yet his 911 call he does not pour on the theatrics whatsoever and he is heckled for that. As I posted earlier, every person that made a 911 call that turned out to be the actual perp was way over the top with the drama act.

He has been accused of many things yet he is a free man and LE has been investigating this case for over a month now. That tends to show me the things Sergio has been accused of are flawed. If he had done any criminal wrongdoing by now LE would have taken pleasure in arresting him no matter how slight the charge just like they did CA and Guy Heinz Jr. . Nothing like LE applying pressure and showing Sergio who is in charge by taking his freedom away. IMO, Sergio has broken no laws and that is why he hasnt been arrested. And before LE came out and said the December incident was minor it was made into a major issue which turned out not to be the case per LE. Imo, you cant hide the facts from the police that are investigating you under a strong microscope. Druggie nor drug dealers live their lives in a vaccum. Somebody always knows what you are doing and snitches are a dime a dozen. And imo, TPD doesnt have a clue who abducted Isa or where she is or if she is dead or alive.

The incident back in December was a minor incident and has nothing to do with Isa. Could have been as simple as the boys werent picked up at school one day on time and the school called LE and CPS got involved. There may have even been a valid and acceptable reason for the minor incident. IMO, thats why it never went anywhere.

So until I see credible evidence that Sergio is involved in drugs, selling or buying, gun runnning.. or that he is a child molester, I will continue to keep my mind open to the possibility that a stranger has done this to this family or someone that had been around Isa and was obsessed with her.

I do not try to analize someone I have never met either or even knew before the tragedy that happened in their lives.

I just dont see Sergio Celis as some big bad monster from hell and not one person has stepped forward to label him as such.

The dogs being home and adults inside does not convince me this was an inside job. Things just like these same circumstances have happened before to other innocent children that were abducted by a stranger. Dogs didnt matter.....adults being in the home that night didnt matter either. The outside wall is not that high and there is a gate on the side of the property. No matter how they came in or out it isnt unheard of for families inside not to hear a thing even with dogs in the home. Now if it had never happened before I would certainly take that into consideration but that isnt the case. Just google chilren kidnapped by a stranger and that will tell you it does happen and it happens more often than we think it does, imo, because a lot of time the missing child nor the perp is ever found. Just like Jimmy Hendrickson's mom who has been waiting 21 years to find out who took her son.

Of course if I see credible evidence that points to guilt against Sergio that comes straight from LEs mouth, I will change my opinion in a heartbeat, but I am still waiting for that evidence to come forth.

What the reporters or talking heads try to sell me ........I refused to buy. I have been done that road before and was tricked into believing a lot of things that did not turnout to be true.

IMO

 

[TGIRecovered]

Isa is reported to have been wearing a pink tank top with the Old Navy / American Flag on the front. The shirt in that pic is nothing like that.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

-bolded by me-

So if SC fell asleep there, with the tv on (and some lights on probably) would that not be an indication to anyone who wanted to kidnap Isabel that night that someone in the house was awake?

Good observation, Micheline, especially when you add it to the rest of house full of people, the wall around the house, close neighbor lots and 3 dogs!

What random stranger would have decided this was a good place to break into to look for a little child to kidnap?

 

[jennapuppy]

Hypothetically speaking.... Assuming someone did go over the wall, lets say Uncle J all he would need to do is park his jeep out front and jump over the wall... Getting in and out of this property doe's not look like any sort of rocket science would be needed unless you were a teacup chuwawa. Also we are not sure if its the front kids room or the middle kids room where Isa stayed. I find it very hard to beleave someone would have gotten in and out of the property without a dog at least barking in the middle of the night and waking SC or the boys up... I'm really starting to venture into the very much likelyhood that this involved Sergio or Uncle Justin or both but I also slightly wonder about Uncle Louis but I'm more leaning on SC and JM.. Remember LE said " It's not what we know or think its what we can prove in court " but i'm also still not so certain Isa is dead but rather perhaps at one of JM's vacation locations... in FL, WA, N.AZ or even Mexico BUT yah never know.

Who is Uncle Louis? TIA

 

[liz b.]

Yes... I downloaded the picture and loaded it into Nikon's picture viewer and it pulled the raw meta data from it... the phone it was uploaded from did not have GPS activated at the time the picture was taken so the location tag is missing from the metadata BUT it does say it was taken on 22APR2012

Looks way photoshopped...MOO Look especially at her eyes... also,the pose seems very out of whack, unatural ... JMO

 

[johnQpublic]

Who is Uncle Louis? TIA

Louis R. III ... He is the one who spoke on the families behalf on HLN

 

[mamamia54]

MetaData in a photo is not always perfect but usually is... But, She is wearing the pink top sergio mentioned and one tooth does look fairly new at coming in could be wrong... not sure BUT who takes camera phone pictures in public bathrooms.... look at the fixtures and it appears from looking at the mirror also that it is a fairly small room. This picture was found from some serious digging on FB channeling through grandma's friends and the posts pertaining to this photo one of the people said in spanish " Thank God she is ok, hopefully not too long before she delivered home "

I don't know what to think about it really. Sergio said that she had a pink top on with an american flag across the front, then there's the tooth. But that "Thank God she is ok, hopefully not too long before she delivered home"? Makes me wonder.

 

[SmoothOperator]

True, but since we don't know what it DID have to do with, it could still be something that showed one parent or the other to have a temper, for example. Maybe this instance was not against Isabel, but it had to involve a child, or children, IMO. Again, just an example.

But I am not sure how to take that info, that it was NOT related to Isa. Imo, ANYTHING that would bring CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES to her home, has got to be related to her in some way. Even if it is about her brother it is still related to her. I suppose it could have been about ANOTHER kid all together, and they needed to talk to one of the boys about it, perhaps. But I am still not convinced it was not connected to this situation, jmo.

Absolutely agree that the info does not equal all is now hunky-dory and therefor all questions are answered regarding the issue.. that's not my opinion at all..my comment merely was that it'd been glossed over whereas if we had gotten info today that was reflective negatively on the Celis home I do not believe for a moment it would have been glossed over..

It was an observation that's all. Jmo.

 

[taagean]

MetaData in a photo is not always perfect but usually is... But, She is wearing the pink top sergio mentioned and one tooth does look fairly new at coming in could be wrong... not sure BUT who takes camera phone pictures in public bathrooms.... look at the fixtures and it appears from looking at the mirror also that it is a fairly small room. This picture was found from some serious digging on FB channeling through grandma's friends and the posts pertaining to this photo one of the people said in spanish " Thank God she is ok, hopefully not too long before she delivered home "

BBM

As was stated a few posts ago, SC stated Isabel had a pink tank top on.

 

[Shelby2]

JQP says the exit data says the pic was TAKEN on 4/22

 

[Prof]

Basically then, it appears that the aunt uploaded a picture of Isa on 4/22/12, and that the photo was not taken on 4/22/12

I need to use this icon >>>> :furious:

She originally uploaded the pic on March 1, 2012

Then I think she added it to her FB COVER PAGE on Timeline, probably on the 22nd after ISA went missing...

 

[Shelby2]

What's it matter what she's wearing, if the exit data is correct it was taken on 4/22