AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #18

[Patty G]

:truce: :truce: :truce: :truce:

JM is related to RC on his mother's side of the family before his mother married into the M family. After his mother married into the M family, there was a last name change for JM.

 

[kat77]

I'm trying to type and keep up at the same time and it's nearly impossible. Forgive me if I've missed something. I know I'm referencing a post from a few pages ago.

A recent post from Gliving referenced an Arizona Daily star article where Sgt. Hawke discussed previous TPD calls.

Hawke said "They're very minimal. When I do a check of the residence, there virtually is no contact there prior to most recently"

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crim...3ea7b14ee.html

This may not be a "dead horse" since there are so many earlier posts on whether LE has really said that the prior CPS visit was MINOR.

When I listened to last Thursday's media briefing (MAY 17), I thought that the discussion of the previous calls to the Celis home could lead to confusion. Hawke was actually asked several different questions (some about CPS and some about TPD visits).

This is from memory and I'm paraphrasing but it is supported by the Star article. (Is it OK to paraphrase, if I refer to the statements in a specific press briefing?) I'm looking for a FULL transcript and link for that briefing, maybe you already have it.

From what I remember, when asked about the December CPS call, Hawke admitted that they knew about it and gave the regular TPD response about not commenting on CPS cases. Then she referred the questioner to the CPS spokesperson. As usual, she wouldn't give any additional information on the CPS involvement and that was the end of the CPS answers.

Later in the briefing, I believe she was asked about previous TPD calls to the house and she admitted that there had been calls in the past. The questioner tried to find out when. She said she didn't even know if the Celis family lived there then. The questioner said Celis had owned home for 5 years, and tried to find out the specific time frame of the calls. She didn't give a direct answer.

Then to end that line of questioning, I think she basically summarized by saying that the calls were MINOR and minimal in nature . She appeared to be talking only about the TPD calls, she had already said she would NOT comment on CPS calls. The TPD calls could even be referring to the dog citations and therefore would not involve Isa.

If I understood correctly, she said no comment on CPS calls and that the TPD calls were Minor (minimal). Soon after this briefing, media and commentors were saying that LE had said that the December CPS call was MINOR.

Since LE has been so careful to parse their words in this case, it doesn't seem likely that they told certain media sources that the CPS call was MINOR after the briefing. They have steadfastly refused to comment on any CPS matter in the past.

IMO, the media listened to the briefing, didn't distinguish between CPS and TPD calls, and then ran with the story.

Can anyone help me find either the full video or full transcript of the 5/17 briefing? I'm trying to refresh my memory. I thought a full transcript would be easy to find.

Several here have used the Today show as the source for the report that the prior CPS call was minor. I usually go to KVOA for video of past press briefings, but the now the 5/17 video has been shortened to include only the explanation of abduction, not the question/answer portion.

If the calls that were "MINOR and NOT involving Isabel" really referred to TPD calls and not CPS, then I think we're basing opinions on mistaken reporting. And we're back to knowing nothing about the extent of previous or current CPS involvement. (which I think is the way LE and CPS want it left for now.)

 

[azmary]

JM is related to RC on his mother's side of the family before his mother married into the M family. After his mother married into the M family, there was a last name change for JM.

:floorlaugh: I am laughing because I was lost at the Bakery again.

 

[mamamia54]

JM is not an uncle to Isa, he is her cousin. JM is not RC's brother either.

And I thought I was confused before lmaooo, I need more coffee.

 

[katydid23]

It doesnt suprise me. I have always thought if they weren't an Hispanic family the drug cartel speculation wouldnt have entered the equation.

IMO

The COLUMBIAN drug cartel is a Hispanic run corporation. If it was a black family we might be inquiring about the Crips or the Bloods. If it was a young white family we would be asking if they were Juggaloes. Or SkinHeads...

 

[johnQpublic]

Regarding the CPS issue here's what I think from looking at court records... In December a Warrant was served for JM at the residence and it took 2 attempts to serve the warrant on the first visit to serve the warrant parents maybe were not home at the moment and left with the 14 yo in charge and it was probably for something stupid like the dad was down the street at his mothers or ran to get fast food or something stupid plus it was December they could have been out Christmas shopping and the stupid process server put in for CPS Flag for check-up ... it's AZ and they can be stupid like that... I've heard of dumber reasons for CPS being nosey in Tempe... This most recent issue however it's safe to assume while police were at the home investigating for evidence pertaining to the abduction, thier warrant was not for drugs or paraphernalia and something was found or seen in the search. Since the search warrant was not for drugs and there was no grounds for probable cause to be looking for drug items and it was seen or found in the privacy of thier home that evidence is not usable in court to charge him with a crime BUT it's not something they cant mention to CPS and cause them to look into it. You can't charge someone for things unrelated to your warrant.

 

[Prof]

I'm trying to type and keep up at the same time and it's nearly impossible. Forgive me if I've missed something. I know I'm referencing a post from a few pages ago.

A recent post from Gliving referenced an Arizona Daily star article where Sgt. Hawke discussed previous TPD calls.

Hawke said "They're very minimal. When I do a check of the residence, there virtually is no contact there prior to most recently"

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crim...3ea7b14ee.html

This may not be a "dead horse" since there are so many earlier posts on whether LE has really said that the prior CPS visit was MINOR.

When I listened to last Thursday's media briefing (MAY 17), I thought that the discussion of the previous calls to the Celis home could lead to confusion. Hawke was actually asked several different questions (some about CPS and some about TPD visits).

This is from memory and I'm paraphrasing but it is supported by the Star article. (Is it OK to paraphrase, if I refer to the statements in a specific press briefing?) I'm looking for a FULL transcript and link for that briefing, maybe you already have it.

From what I remember, when asked about the December CPS call, Hawke admitted that they knew about it and gave the regular TPD response about not commenting on CPS cases. Then she referred the questioner to the CPS spokesperson. As usual, she wouldn't give any additional information on the CPS involvement and that was the end of the CPS answers.

Later in the briefing, I believe she was asked about previous TPD calls to the house and she admitted that there had been calls in the past. The questioner tried to find out when. She said she didn't even know if the Celis family lived there then. The questioner said Celis had owned home for 5 years, and tried to find out the specific time frame of the calls. She didn't give a direct answer.

Then to end that line of questioning, I think she basically summarized by saying that the calls were MINOR and minimal in nature . She appeared to be talking only about the TPD calls, she had already said she would NOT comment on CPS calls. The TPD calls could even be referring to the dog citations and therefore would not involve Isa.

If I understood correctly, she said no comment on CPS calls and that the TPD calls were Minor (minimal). Soon after this briefing, media and commentors were saying that LE had said that the December CPS call was MINOR.

Since LE has been so careful to parse their words in this case, it doesn't seem likely that they told certain media sources that the CPS call was MINOR after the briefing. They have steadfastly refused to comment on any CPS matter in the past.

IMO, the media listened to the briefing, didn't distinguish between CPS and TPD calls, and then ran with the story.

Can anyone help me find either the full video or full transcript of the 5/17 briefing? I'm trying to refresh my memory. I thought a full transcript would be easy to find.

Several here have used the Today show as the source for the report that the prior CPS call was minor. I usually go to KVOA for video of past press briefings, but the now the 5/17 video has been shortened to include only the explanation of abduction, not the question/answer portion.

If the calls that were "MINOR and NOT involving Isabel" really referred to TPD calls and not CPS, then I think we're basing opinions on mistaken reporting. And we're back to knowing nothing about the extent of previous or current CPS involvement. (which I think is the way LE and CPS want it left for now.)

Wow, great post!
I totally believe this is what happened.
I really could not hear the questions at all in that presser.
I usually go to KVOA for the video, too, but they don't always post it. I will try to help find it.

BBM is an important point to remember, IMO
Why would they comment on CPS visit being minor?

 

[azmary]

The COLUMBIAN drug cartel is a Hispanic run corporation. If it was a black family we might be inquiring about the Crips or the Bloods. If it was a young white family we would be asking if they were Juggaloes. Or SkinHeads...

I don't think anyone is pointing fingers at them because of race. This is Tucson, we are less than 1 hour from the border. It is real angle le needs to rule out here in Tucson.
I think they have already ruled out drugs. The sarge did state who ever did this did a good job of covering up. That just tells me they know it is a cover up and in forensics it is the things you don't see that convict. MOO

 

[Patty G]

And I thought I was confused before lmaooo, I need more coffee.

I posted this a few weeks ago, as my son is dating a woman whose father is related to the M side of the family. This is how I was able to clear up the "uncle" thing.

More than likely JM calssifies himself as Isa's uncle because of the huge age difference and it maybe a respect thing in the family.

 

[mamamia54]

I don't think anyone is pointing fingers at them because of race. This is Tucson, we are less than 1 hour from the border. It is real angle le needs to rule out here in Tucson.
I think they have already ruled out drugs. The sarge did state who ever did this did a good job of covering up. That just tells me they know it is a cover up and in forensics it is the things you don't see that convict. MOO

This is something that I can sink my teeth into. We don't know what the search warrents stated, we won't know that for what 30 days or more? I want to know if both parents cars were forensically processed!! As well as the uncle, cousin, brother, etc that got there right away.

 

[johnQpublic]

I posted this a few weeks ago, as my son is dating a woman whose father is related to the M side of the family. This is how I was able to clear up the "uncle" thing.

More than likely JM calssifies himself as Isa's uncle because of the huge age difference and it maybe a respect thing in the family.

For that matter when living in Phoenix it was not uncommon for hispanic friends of mine to whom I was close with to introduce me to the Children as Uncle ______. It's really not not that uncommon as a sign of respect and also kinda like saying this is mama or papa's close enuff friend to consider them a brother and giving someone an uncle title as a symbol that this person is part of our family, respect them as such.

 

[katydid23]

Regarding the CPS issue here's what I think from looking at court records... In December a Warrant was served for JM at the residence and it took 2 attempts to serve the warrant on the first visit to serve the warrant parents maybe were not home at the moment and left with the 14 yo in charge and it was probably for something stupid like the dad was down the street at his mothers or ran to get fast food or something stupid plus it was December they could have been out Christmas shopping and the stupid process server put in for CPS Flag for check-up ... it's AZ and they can be stupid like that... I've heard of dumber reasons for CPS being nosey in Tempe... This most recent issue however it's safe to assume while police were at the home investigating for evidence pertaining to the abduction, thier warrant was not for drugs or paraphernalia and something was found or seen in the search. Since the search warrant was not for drugs and there was no grounds for probable cause to be looking for drug items and it was seen or found in the privacy of thier home that evidence is not usable in court to charge him with a crime BUT it's not something they cant mention to CPS and cause them to look into it. You can't charge someone for things unrelated to your warrant.

Is it illegal to leave a 14 yr old in charge of a 10 and 6 yr old sibling? I used to PAY my 14 yr old to babysit when we went out.

 

[Patty G]

I'm trying to type and keep up at the same time and it's nearly impossible. Forgive me if I've missed something. I know I'm referencing a post from a few pages ago.

A recent post from Gliving referenced an Arizona Daily star article where Sgt. Hawke discussed previous TPD calls.

Hawke said "They're very minimal. When I do a check of the residence, there virtually is no contact there prior to most recently"

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crim...3ea7b14ee.html

This may not be a "dead horse" since there are so many earlier posts on whether LE has really said that the prior CPS visit was MINOR.

When I listened to last Thursday's media briefing (MAY 17), I thought that the discussion of the previous calls to the Celis home could lead to confusion. Hawke was actually asked several different questions (some about CPS and some about TPD visits).

This is from memory and I'm paraphrasing but it is supported by the Star article. (Is it OK to paraphrase, if I refer to the statements in a specific press briefing?) I'm looking for a FULL transcript and link for that briefing, maybe you already have it.

From what I remember, when asked about the December CPS call, Hawke admitted that they knew about it and gave the regular TPD response about not commenting on CPS cases. Then she referred the questioner to the CPS spokesperson. As usual, she wouldn't give any additional information on the CPS involvement and that was the end of the CPS answers.

Later in the briefing, I believe she was asked about previous TPD calls to the house and she admitted that there had been calls in the past. The questioner tried to find out when. She said she didn't even know if the Celis family lived there then. The questioner said Celis had owned home for 5 years, and tried to find out the specific time frame of the calls. She didn't give a direct answer.

Then to end that line of questioning, I think she basically summarized by saying that the calls were MINOR and minimal in nature . She appeared to be talking only about the TPD calls, she had already said she would NOT comment on CPS calls. The TPD calls could even be referring to the dog citations and therefore would not involve Isa.

If I understood correctly, she said no comment on CPS calls and that the TPD calls were Minor (minimal). Soon after this briefing, media and commentors were saying that LE had said that the December CPS call was MINOR.

Since LE has been so careful to parse their words in this case, it doesn't seem likely that they told certain media sources that the CPS call was MINOR after the briefing. They have steadfastly refused to comment on any CPS matter in the past.

IMO, the media listened to the briefing, didn't distinguish between CPS and TPD calls, and then ran with the story.

Can anyone help me find either the full video or full transcript of the 5/17 briefing? I'm trying to refresh my memory. I thought a full transcript would be easy to find.

Several here have used the Today show as the source for the report that the prior CPS call was minor. I usually go to KVOA for video of past press briefings, but the now the 5/17 video has been shortened to include only the explanation of abduction, not the question/answer portion.

If the calls that were "MINOR and NOT involving Isabel" really referred to TPD calls and not CPS, then I think we're basing opinions on mistaken reporting. And we're back to knowing nothing about the extent of previous or current CPS involvement. (which I think is the way LE and CPS want it left for now.)

Excellent post!

I always felt that when LE referenced "the calls were minor", this had to do with TPD calls and not CPS calls.

When the Today Show stated the other day that a "source" from LE indicated the CPS calls were minor, it made no sense to me and I stated it often, because LE refused to discuss CPS to anyone. I feel the Today Show made an error and should have stated that the TPD calls to the house were minor. Makes total sense.

Thank you.

 

[mamamia54]

Sergio David Celis

Tenor

Last Arizona Opera Appearance: The Merry Widow (2002)

Recent Appearances: Chorus Member with Arizona Opera, Soloist with Valley Presbyterian Church, Tucson, Opera Scenes with Pima Community College

Companies: Pima Community College Concert Chorale, The Lane Justice Chorale, University of Arizona Symphonic Choir
http://www.azopera.com/performances.php?opera=castbios&subpage=sergio_david_celis

 

[curiousc]

Is it illegal to leave a 14 yr old in charge of a 10 and 6 yr old sibling? I used to PAY my 14 yr old to babysit when we went out.

No. There is no age limit on what age you can leave a child unattended. It is deemed the responsibility of the parent to see fit as to how responsible their child is.

Nevermind the fact that children can take babysitting lessons at 12. I was definitely babysitting at that age and younger.

 

[johnQpublic]

Is it illegal to leave a 14 yr old in charge of a 10 and 6 yr old sibling? I used to PAY my 14 yr old to babysit when we went out.

No, it's not illegal but it's enought to be a dumb as a process server and put in for a CPS follow up because your just stupid and dumb founded when some little kid answers the door without opening it and tells you thier parents are not home thru a shut door without being able to see the kid you just make an guess that there are kids home alone without an adult. Like I said it was probably something dumb.

 

[mamamia54]

Sergio and Becky didn't get married until

Case Number: L99330
File Date: 5/13/1997

Party Information
Party Full Name-Party Role-Name Type
SERGIO DAVID CELIS-Groom-True
REBECCA LAURA SNYDER-Bride-True

SERGIO DAVID CELIS Date of Birth: 12/1970 (according to court records)

REBECCA CELIS Date of Birth: 10/1976 (according to court records)

 

[cluciano63]

I think that is what happened, that LE was referring to the TPD calls and said they were minor...and did not comment on the CPS calls at all. It would seem odd to me if they would comment on the CPS calls, right after saying that they would not be talking about that, call CPS for "info" etc...

Also I do not think LE would want to be caught out, saying the CPS issue in December was "minor" when there is now a child missing...it just would not be a good idea, when in fact it could be possible that a situation was not properly investigated at the time. JMO

 

[johnQpublic]

plus.... I can't even begin to tell you how many times as a communications field supervisor I had made QC checks of a tech's work and gotten to the door and found the same type issue with kids talking thru a door or having a naked 5 yo come open the door like it was just normal to walk around half dressed and for them to tell me mommy's in the shower or something stupid... I've encountered both circumstances too many times to count.

 

[Patty G]

He would be around what 25? When did he have the boys? I gotta look this one up.

The boys are 14 (1998) and 10 (2002)