AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #18

[Donjeta]

I get that. What I questioned was someone getting hinky because a person was a coach. In this case I think SC should not be coaching at this point. I don't think the fact that he was a coach raises the hackles....All MOO

It's a double edged sword really, IMO.

The first thought is, oh, a person who volunteers his time, gets along with kids, it must be a good person.

Then, a child disappears, LE won't clear the parents, tell the father not to have contact with his children. The thought of possible sexual abuse enters people's minds. Suddenly, being a coach looks possibly sinister because some creepy people volunteer to be near kids.

 

[Patty G]

Thank you. I can call them up but I think when a poster states something as fact they need to do the work

I totally agree with you!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Don't be too worried. If someone makes a call reporting you, yes CPS will probably come out and do a little investigation, but if it is something silly they won't open a case. My sister has had 2 false calls against her this year from her ex husband and they investigated but found the claims "unfounded" and have threatened to prosecute him if he does it again. But, I would recommend speaking with lawyer before signing anything from CPS or any of their "suggested" ideas (like classes).

Its still frightening to think someone can just make up some chit about someone and has CPS at their door because of it. I am aware of false complaints being filed simply because the complaintant had it in for the person. I have read here in the past about others talking about their own nightmares when someone was so mean spirited to do something like this.

CPS has to follow up on these false allegations too and they are already overloaded with casework as it is.

I have never had any contact with CPS but I can see how it would scare someone to death if they happened to show up at their door. Even though I would know they would find absolutely no facts supporting any abuse or neglect allegations..it will still be stressful just having to deal with them to get it all straightened out.

Knowing how slow any government agency is it would probably take them months to even decide there was nothing to it.

IMO

 

[prima.facie]

To say the least, he confuses me. He is sleeping on the other side of her wall, in the living room, yet somewhat dismisses the point of entry/exit as the window. That assumption would have the perp entering through a door and walking right past him to get to Isabel and remove her from the house. Does he sleep that soundly? And a stranger perp walks past a man sleeping on the sofa to abduct the child? What if Sergio had awakened?

I still believe the window was staged, however, am at a quandry why Sergio would make that statement unless he now realizes how improbable it is? Actually how improbable the whole scenario is with him on the sofa?

:waitasec:

MOO

I have said this on one of the zillions of threads :giggle: but IMO there was the perfect storm of opportunity for some random stranger to abduct Isa. Someone literally won the lottery or else consulted a gypsy to find out if their stars were aligned because EVERYTHING PERFECTLY LINED UP for them to remove her w/out a trace (allegedly - since we really don't know what evidence has been collected) and w/out a human or dog hearing a thing.

With that said....we really don't know where dad was from 11 until he allegedly found her missing at 8. Nor do we know where mom was. Nor do we know where the boys were. Nor do we know if anyone left the house at any given time after everyone allegedly got home. In fact, everything said is nothing but an allegation....for us. We don't even know if anything he has said is true or that what mom has said is true.

:banghead: this case hurts my head as much as the baby Lisa case did.

 

[prima.facie]

Its still frightening to think someone can just make up some chit about someone and has CPS at their door because of it. I am aware of false complaints being filed simply because the complaintant had it in for the person. I have read here in the past about others talking about their own nightmares when someone was so mean spirited to do something like this.

CPS has to follow up on these false allegations too and they are already overloaded with casework as it is.

I have never had any contact with CPS but I can see how it would scare someone to death if they happened to show up at their door. Even though I would know they would find absolutely no facts supporting an abuse or neglect allegations..it will still be stressful just having to deal with them to get it all straightened out.

Knowing how slow any government agency is it would probably take them months to even decide there was nothing to it.

IMO

Your points, along with others, really makes me wonder why BC & RC still have not contacted an attorney. :waitasec: And if they have, how are they keeping it so hush that it has not been leaked to anyone?

I am assuming that they are like so many in thinking that attorney = Im guilty....while so many dont realize that attorney = protection and help. :waitasec:

 

[winterrose]

Some families in a community have to be very involved in any avenue they can. I'm not sure what more this family is, kids in sports, coach, actor, opera singer, not sure what else, but this has put them in the National spotlight.

It bothers me when they both point out in interviews the world is involved in this, I'm sure they're sending money and prayers, but it seems to be important for them to keep acknowledging that. I hope they're not involved, but watching Judge Jeanine's show last night, Mark Fuhrman said he's never heard a parent say their child was abducted in a 911 call. The parents court records and CPS being involved in the family before, not to mention SC's behavior on the 911 call, they say this is a very strange case, as many are saying.

Sometimes looking at the mother I feel she's more like the director of a charity event, instead of a child's disappearance and possibly not being alive. If SC was at the vigil, after making an agreement with CPS, I'm not sure that will bode well for him and RC was publicly supporting him at the vigil. Rather than losing custody of the children, I'd try to lay low and be quiet, instead of what seemed more like a Public Relations move at the vigil.

But after so many cases of parents being involved when there's no obvious signs to point otherwise, I'm just skeptical where money is involved and there is alot of money involved here. Even SC acknowledged in the couch interview LE isn't sure she was taken from the window and he's not either, so how was she taken?

 

[cluciano63]

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_df9cc706-5f2d-5cd5-9a3c-2f4f045407ad.html

From the article:

Some family members, along with most of the sex offenders in the area near the Celis home in the 5600 block of East 12th Street, have been eliminated as suspects, police said. Others, including Isabel's parents, have not been ruled out.

 

[Donjeta]

I just wonder, if there is nothing to it, why did SC agree to stop all contact with his sons? If there is no evidence that warrants it, many parents would rather take their chances in court than stop seeing their kids.

 

[deanna82437]

I would love to see the transcript of NG because that is not what I remember at all.

VEGA: He didn`t say anything to me. I spoke with him the other night to let him know how his son did at our Little League game. And all he had told me was, you know, I`m sorry, I can`t talk that long, I need to get off the phone. And I didn`t ask him why. You know, I`m not going to -- I`m not going to grill my friend. He`s going through enough right now. I`m not going to grill him over anything like that.

GRACE: Didn`t he say to you...

VEGA: You know, he didn`t have to convey anything to me.

GRACE: ... Mr. Vega, that he couldn`t talk for long, that his calls, his phones were being monitored?

VEGA: He did not tell me his phones were being monitored. He told me he could not talk that long, that he had to get off the phone. Yes, he did not tell me his phones were being monitored. And I did not ask. Like I said, I`m not going to grill my friend. He`s going through enough. I just told him that I would probably call him back later in the week, after our next game, to let him know how his son is playing. He wants to know how his son is playing, so I told him I would let him know.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1205/17/ng.01.html

 

[Deleted member 718]

- Danielle Van Dam case 2002. Within 3 days the neighbor was the main suspect. He was arrested convicted and sent to death row.

- Polly Klaas 1993. Parents divorced. Polly lived with mom as primary custodial parent. Taken from home during slumber party with 2 friends. Richard Allen Davis eventually arrested, convicted, and is on death row.

- Elizabeth Smart 2002. Taken from her bed while little sister pretended to be asleep.

I don't remember any of these parents being ruled out by LE except Polly's mom where there were two witnesses.

The VanDam's were raked through the coals for their lifestyle choices and the majority thought they were suspicious. Same with the Smarts where many thought there was something amiss including her uncle failing his polygraph. If the uncles were polygraphed, I am assured they were investigated. I can't think of a single case where LE has publicly stated the parents were ruled out.

If the parents were home at the time, they cannot provide an alibi and cannot be ruled out as suspects.

 

[Lava]

Its still frightening to think someone can just make up some chit about someone and has CPS at their door because of it. I am aware of false complaints being filed simply because the complaintant had it in for the person. I have read here in the past about others talking about their own nightmares when someone was so mean spirited to do something like this.

CPS has to follow up on these false allegations too and they are already overloaded with casework as it is.

I have never had any contact with CPS but I can see how it would scare someone to death if they happened to show up at their door. Even though I would know they would find absolutely no facts supporting an abuse or neglect allegations..it will still be stressful just having to deal with them to get it all straightened out.

Knowing how slow any government agency is it would probably take them months to even decide there was nothing to it.

IMO

It definitely is stressful and annoying and scary. Since I lived with my sister during her last false accusation I definitely know first hand. A few months before, before my sister had moved in, my mom died in that house due to an accidental overdose of her prescription pain medication. She had taken 1 pill, the recommended dose, but because she had Addisons disease it had unbeknownst to her built up in her body. Well, my sisters estranged husband decided to call DCF and tell them that my mom had died of an overdose and we were living in a drug house (Seriously, I can't even explain my rage over this). We agreed to the voluntary drug tests, because we had absolutely nothing to hide and wanted to prove in Family Court during the divorce. But, it wasn't just any old drug test. I had to use the bathroom IN FRONT OF SOMEONE. While she stared and watched me. Very awkward, stressful, and horrifying.


So the best advice I can give is to cooperate and speak to a lawyer so you know what you actually HAVE to do.

 

[WhatsupAZ]

I would love to see the transcript of NG because that is not what I remember at all.

That is exactly what I remembet. He was on two nights in a row... Row, maybe that is the confusion..

 

[Deleted member 718]

Some families in a community have to be very involved in any avenue they can. I'm not sure what more this family is, kids in sports, coach, actor, opera singer, not sure what else, but this has put them in the National spotlight.

It bothers me when they both point out in interviews the world is involved in this, I'm sure they're sending money and prayers, but it seems to be important for them to keep acknowledging that. I hope they're not involved, but watching Judge Jeanine's show last night, Mark Fuhrman said he's never heard a parent say their child was abducted in a 911 call. The parents court records and CPS being involved in the family before, not to mention SC's behavior on the 911 call, they say this is a very strange case, as many are saying.

Sometimes looking at the mother I feel she's more like the director of a charity event, instead of a child's disappearance and possibly not being alive. If SC was at the vigil, after making an agreement with CPS, I'm not sure that will bode well for him and RC was publicly supporting him at the vigil. Rather than losing custody of the children, I'd try to lay low and be quiet, instead of what seemed more like a Public Relations move at the vigil.

But after so many cases of parents being involved when there's no obvious signs to point otherwise, I'm just skeptical where money is involved and there is alot of money involved here. Even SC acknowledged in the couch interview LE isn't sure she was taken from the window and he's not either, so how was she taken?

I just watched that Fox News report! http://video.foxnews.com/v/1647897013001/where-is-isabel-celis

 

[Lava]

I just wonder, if there is nothing to it, why did SC agree to stop all contact with his sons? If there is no evidence that warrants it, many parents would rather take their chances in court than stop seeing their kids.

IMO - If he refused to agree voluntarily I think they would have opened a case and brought it in front of a judge. For whatever reason, they wanted to avoid this. Just gotta ask yourself, why? IMO

 

[panthera]

The screen being off could mean a few things, one being that it was physically taken out, from the outside, or inside, that it could have been kicked out by Isa flailing around with a hand over her mouth. OR, someone was able to slink past a sleeping Serigo. All in all, the dogs apparently did bark.

If it had been kicked out there would be noticeable damage to it and would more or less confirm that it was connected to Isabel's disappearance.

MOO

 

[Madeleine74]

I don't remember any of these parents being ruled out by LE except Polly's mom where there were two witnesses.

Ruled out before being investigated? Without witnesses like in the Polly case, parents can't be immediately ruled out before at least being questioned once or twice. Even Polly's mom was questioned.

All parents were ruled out by LE, some faster than others. Even the Smart parents were questioned and that abduction did have a witness (the younger sister who shared a bedroom and who saw and heard the guy).

All parents go through Hell after an abduction. But within a matter of a week or two, LE knows pretty well if they are looking at a real abduction or not.

In cases like:

- Madeleine McCann
- Lisa Irwin
- Isabel Celis
- Sabrina Aisenberg

LE has a pretty good suspicion that at least one of the parents are involved, but being able to prove it...is a whole nother matter. And without proof, the case will not go any further.

 

[Eileen730]

Its still frightening to think someone can just make up some chit about someone and has CPS at their door because of it. I am aware of false complaints being filed simply because the complaintant had it in for the person. I have read here in the past about others talking about their own nightmares when someone was so mean spirited to do something like this.

CPS has to follow up on these false allegations too and they are already overloaded with casework as it is.

I have never had any contact with CPS but I can see how it would scare someone to death if they happened to show up at their door. Even though I would know they would find absolutely no facts supporting any abuse or neglect allegations..it will still be stressful just having to deal with them to get it all straightened out.

Knowing how slow any government agency is it would probably take them months to even decide there was nothing to it.

IMO

Hi All!

I think anyone that makes false accusations of child abuse against anyone should do time in Jail! And not a week or 2....If it is done maliciously
give them a good hard sentence! Dont make it so easy for ppl to do this.

JMO

 

[Lava]

I don't remember any of these parents being ruled out by LE except Polly's mom where there were two witnesses.

The VanDam's were raked through the coals for their lifestyle choices and the majority thought they were suspicious. Same with the Smarts where many thought there was something amiss including her uncle failing his polygraph. If the uncles were polygraphed, I am assured they were investigated. I can't think of a single case where LE has publicly stated the parents were ruled out.

If the parents were home at the time, they cannot provide an alibi and cannot be ruled out as suspects.

As far as the Van Dams:

http://articles.cnn.com/2002-02-14/...a-van-dam-david-westerfield-danielle?_s=PM:US

 

[Donjeta]

GRACE: Joining me tonight in a primetime exclusive is a very dear friend of the Celis family. Joe Vega is joining us. Joe, I know that you have spoken to Sergio Celis, Isabel`s father, since he was barred from contact with his two remaining boys. Has he taken a polygraph? And if so, did he pass it?

VEGA: That I don`t know. I didn`t -- we have not talked about that. All I know is basically what you know, what I`ve heard. I don`t know if he has. I don`t know if he passed. That`s not even an issue for me at all. I didn`t ask him about that. He didn`t tell me about that.

GRACE: What do you guys talk about, Joe?

VEGA: I called him Saturday to ask if his son was going to attend our baseball game. We had a baseball game Saturday night, to find out if he was going to be there. I called him Saturday morning. He didn`t answer the phone. I left him a message.

He returned my call Saturday afternoon to let me know his son wasn`t going to go to the game. I did ask him, you know, What`s going on? And I`ve heard some things. And he couldn`t go -- he told me he couldn`t go into it.

He kind of broke down a little bit, and I could tell he was hurting because of the boys, couldn`t be with the boys. He was letting me know that he could, hopefully, soon talk to me more. He just couldn`t at that time.

It was just basically a quick conversation to let me know his boy wasn`t going to be at our game. I`m the one that asked for more information. He couldn`t give me any. And we left it at that.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1205/15/ng.01.html

I misremembered, JV called SC to ask him if his son was coming to their game.

VEGA: He didn`t say anything to me. I spoke with him the other night to let him know how his son did at our Little League game. And all he had told me was, you know, I`m sorry, I can`t talk that long, I need to get off the phone. And I didn`t ask him why. You know, I`m not going to -- I`m not going to grill my friend. He`s going through enough right now. I`m not going to grill him over anything like that.

GRACE: Didn`t he say to you...

VEGA: You know, he didn`t have to convey anything to me.

GRACE: ... Mr. Vega, that he couldn`t talk for long, that his calls, his phones were being monitored?

VEGA: He did not tell me his phones were being monitored. He told me he could not talk that long, that he had to get off the phone. Yes, he did not tell me his phones were being monitored. And I did not ask. Like I said, I`m not going to grill my friend. He`s going through enough. I just told him that I would probably call him back later in the week, after our next game, to let him know how his son is playing. He wants to know how his son is playing, so I told him I would let him know.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1205/17/ng.01.html

This is a bit confusing imo.

On the 15th JV says they spoke on the phone and SC's son wasn't coming to the game.
On the 17th he says that they spoke about how his son did in the game. The game he wasn't coming to?

It's not important to me whether the son was in the game or not but I just wonder what they really spoke about.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_df9cc706-5f2d-5cd5-9a3c-2f4f045407ad.html

From the article:

Some family members, along with most of the sex offenders in the area near the Celis home in the 5600 block of East 12th Street, have been eliminated as suspects, police said. Others, including Isabel's parents, have not been ruled out.

That is exactly what I said in my prior post. They will rule people out behind the scene but they dont even come out to the media and list them by their name.

99% of cases I have seen they never rule anyone out by name and they will only name the suspect when there has been an arrest.

The parents cant be ruled out because they have no verifiable alibi. The four of them were inside the home that night and there is no way for anyone to verify that since no one saw them from the time they entered their home after the baseball game until Becky arrived at work and when Sergio and Jr went to look for Isa.

I understand perfectly why LE hardly.. if ever.. rules the adults out that were in the home when the child was abducted.

IMO